Review: Cane Creek Tigon - The Air Charged Coil Shock

Oct 31, 2023
by Matt Beer  
Cane Creek Tigon

Deciding what type of shock absorber is right for your bike isn’t always as straightforward as it could be. A frame’s kinematic properties can be specifically designed around a linear coil shock or more progressive air spring. Popular trail and enduro bikes from brands like Specialized, Kona, Ibis, aren't known to have a ton of progression built into them, which is where an air shock can lend a hand.

Structurally, there can be issues too. Frames that rely on clevis-style shock mounts can stress the smaller diameter shaft of a coil damper, compared to an air shock, often leading to structural failures. Cane Creek’s new Tigon air-charged coil shock, designed for the high speeds and heavy impacts of enduro and e-bikes, aims to kill two birds with one stone.
Tigon Details
• Twin tube damper
• Pneumatic bottom-out resistance
• Adjustments: air pressure, high- and low-speed compression, low-speed rebound, climb switch
• Sizes: Standard: 210x50-55, 230x60-65mm, Trunnion: 185x50-55, 205x60-65mm
• Shaft diameter: 12.7mm (1/2”)
• Weight: 475g (without spring, 210 x 55mm)
• MSRP: $899.99 USD w/o spring or hardware
canecreek.com

Step one was to weave the progression of an air shock into the suppleness of a coil. By adding a small air chamber to the coil damper, the force at bottom-out is raised beyond their popular Valt progressive steel springs. This feature can also add support all the way up to the sag point, depending on the air pressure.

The second part of the equation comes from reversing the orientation of the shaft to make way for the Ramp Tube, where the air chamber is located. This architecture lends to building a larger diameter shaft which Cane Creek claims stands up against clevis shock mounts, all while remaining minimalist in terms of packaging.

photo
Cane Creek Tigon Shock
photo

Adjustments

Cane Creek dubbed the air chamber the Ramp Tube, which can be set between 0 and 30 psi. Depending on the coil spring weight chosen, that offers anywhere between 20% - 35% of progression. That’s nearly double the maximum progression that Cane Creek’s progressive coil springs offer. In theory, there’s no issue with installing a Valt Progressive spring on the Tigon, but that would undermine the Tigon’s selling point.

The key difference between the progression that the Ramp Tube offers over a hydraulic bottom-out (HBO) feature, found on coil shocks like the RockShox Super Deluxe Coil and EXT Storia, is that the force is dependent on the position of the damper, not the speed at which it compresses. HBO is positive sensitive, but the damping force depends on how fast that's activated. This design makes the Tigon feel consistent when reaching full travel and return at more consistent speeds. Inside the Tigon, a mechanical negative spring is used to give a supremely supple feel. Inflating the Ramp Tube beyond the maximum 30 psi would overcome the force the negative spring can provide and cause the shock to top out.

Cane Creek Tigon Shock
Cane Creek Tigon Shock
A 3mm allen key is needed to adjust the low-speed rebound and low-speed compression. Thankfully, there's one onboard the Tigon that's secured by a magnet. The high-speed compression dial can be turned by hand and the Ramp Tube can be tuned with a standard shock pump.

In terms of damper controls, the Tigon features high and low-speed compression, a sweeping climb switching lever, and low-speed rebound adjustment. The HSC is controlled by turning a dial between 0-180 degrees, whereas the LSC and LSR feature 12 and 15 clicks. The latter two adjustments are accessed via a 3mm allen key that is nestled in the head of the shock and retained by a small magnet.

Why isn’t a high-speed rebound (HSR) adjuster present on the Tigon but is found on their Double Barrel-style shocks? Cane Creek felt that the return spring force of the Ramp Tube could be better managed by tuning the HSR internally for hard-charging. In Cane Creek's opinion, riders who favor bottom out resistance over pure downhill speed and control would be better suited to the Tigon over the Kitsuma Coil, which is why the Tigon is not offered in DH-length sizing.

photo
Sam Anderson (OEM Sales Manager) and Brandon Blakely (Design Engineer) lend a helping hand to set up the shock for the inaugural lap.

Setup

Early this year, I visited Cane Creek’s headquarters in Fletcher, North Carolina, to get the full rundown on the Tigon and sample the demanding, yet diverse trails in the surrounding Pisgah National Forest.

Two popular bikes were fitted with Tigons to demo: the Specialized Levo and Ibis Ripmo. Both feature more linear leverage curves than most and use a clevis lower shock mount. Those specifications would suit the robust, air-charged coil shock well. I’d later spend the most time riding a Levo SL equipped with a Tigon that had arrived for long-term testing around my home trails in Squamish.

In regard to the setup on the Levo SL, I flip-flopped between two opposite arrangements. The first was with a 450lb spring, more compression damping, and 25 psi in the Ramp Tube. The second involved a 500lb spring, less compression damping and 10 psi of additional ramp from the pneumatic bottom-out feature. The 450lb spring equated to 29% sag and the 500 provided 25%.

Cane Creek Tigon Shock
Measuring sag on the Tigon is unusually simple, thanks to the gradients etched on the Ramp Tube.

Depending on the trails of choice and how long I planned to ride the Levo SL for, purchasing two coil springs wouldn’t be out of the question. On longer rides that might involve carrying a second range extender pack or a heavier day bag, I swapped for the 500lb and made the changes mentioned above. For general riding, I settled on the 450lb wound in 1.5 turns with the LSR 7 clicks from closed, LSC at -6 and the HSC about ⅔ out.

Cane Creek Tigon

Performance

My last experience with an air-charged coil-sprung shock absorber was a system that friends helped me install on my parent’s 2003 Honda Odyssey, but that’s a tale for another time. How does a coil damper with pneumatic bottom-out resistance perform on mountain bikes?

Well, it takes the best of both worlds. You get the suppleness of a coil off the top and the consistency through the mid-stroke, plus the added support of the air ramp to avoid hard bottom-outs. There’s little downside to that added air spring. Even with the maximum 30 psi in there, I never found the ramp force to be too harsh or have any hint of seal stiction.

Moving from 0 to 30 psi will change the return rate from the end of the travel, so depending on the spring and ramp pressure riders who require higher spring rates may need to have the HSR re-tuned, something that Cane Creek is open to.

Cane Creek have worked tirelessly to pack a ton of features and control into this shock without creating fitment constraints, granted your frame can accept a shock with a reservoir. The only issue I could foresee would be the access to the Ramp Tube's air valve on the most convoluted frame shapes, and the accessibility to the climb switch. Even on frames with open shock placement, it took some time to learn where that lever resided.

As for long-term durability, I haven’t had this particular shock for as long as I’d hoped, but it has certainly had its fair share of hucks to flat on the Levo SL. In that time, it hasn’t missed a beat, lost performance during prolonged descents, or suffered any coil-binding issues. For those riders who focus on listening to their suspension while riding, you’ll be happy to know the Tigon is extremely quiet as well.

Cane Creek Tigon Shock
The climb switch puts a solid hold on any suspension movement but toggling it closed takes practice due to the air valve's positioning.

Price and Weight

What are the benefits of combined coil and air springs worth? The Tigon will be available in North American through their distributors for $899.99 USD, without a coil or hardware. That’s $130 more than Cane Creek’s Kitsuma Coil and considerably more than a RockShox Super Deluxe Coil, at $549-580 (depending on the mounting option).

The Tigon, without a coil, weighs the same as a RockShox Super Deluxe air shock - 475g. The 500lb spring weighed 359g, which nearly doubles the weight over an air shock.

With that said, the Tigon touts the highlights of air and coil shocks in one package - there’s no other shock on the market that can claim all of the Tigon's selling points. Most importantly, the Tigon is strong enough to withstand clevis shock mounts. Simply put, it's supple, strong, consistent, and resists bottoming.

On that note of resilience, Cane Creek offers a two-year warranty on the Tigon against manufacturering defects.

Cane Creek Tigon
Cane Creek's Tigon is a one-of-a-kind coil shock with a pneumatic bottom-out control that produces consistent spring forces.
photo
The RockShox Super Deluxe Coil's hydraulic bottom-out control is position sensitive which can feel different depending on how fast you move through the travel.

How Does It Compare?

Situated on a one-minute test track, I set out to do back-to-back laps on the Levo to provide a concise comparison between the Cane Creek Tigon and a RockShox Super Deluxe Coil (with HBO).

The major separation between the two bottom-out control systems is the point at which they kick in, and how vigorously they bottom-out. I’ve spoken highly of shocks from EXT and RockShox with their HBO components, but the back-to-back testing proved the benefits of the Tigon.

I’d describe reaching full travel on the Super Deluxe Coil like punching wet sand. The reduced bottom-out force is softer than the plain metal clang, however, the splat feeling can be inconsistent and too late in the travel.

Basically, the additional force of the Tigon’s Ramp Tube increases control before bottom-outs occur. The Tigon stayed higher in the travel through the same compressions and flat landings compared to the Super Deluxe Coil. That’s not to say that you’ll never experience any full stops, however, the air ramp does provide a slower, gentle touch on the bottom-out bumper.




Pros

+ Adjustable air spring adds support and control while maintaining coil suppleness
+ Ramp Tube doubles as a structural benefit for bikes with clevis shock mounts
+ Damper adjustments have ample range


Cons

- Riders may still find themselves between spring rates (yes, you could install a Sprindex system)
- Schrader valve can interfere with reaching the climb switch on the fly



Pinkbike's Take

bigquotesCane Creek have doubled down on a specific market that can benefit from the pneumatic bottom-out control found on the Tigon. Heavy e-bikes and hucking freeriders no longer need to sacrifice the small-bump performance of an air shock in favor of end-stroke progression. The Ramp Tube also adds structural integrity to the Tigon to allow it to work with clevis-mount frames, an area where other coil shocks have been known to fail.
Matt Beer









Author Info:
mattbeer avatar

Member since Mar 16, 2001
360 articles

319 Comments
  • 264 4
 Everyone - Coil or air? Pick a shock style and be a dick about it.

CaneCreek - Watch this.
  • 61 2
 how about a fatty coil spring that you can pump air into? plushness of a coil and lightness of air. Built in bottom out
  • 32 0
 @gearbo-x: your genius is frightening
  • 2 29
flag toad321 (Oct 31, 2023 at 7:07) (Below Threshold)
 cane creek - I choose money b*tch
  • 93 1
 Bishoxual
  • 9 1
 Fox used to do this for years. Air and Coil together is the way
  • 5 1
 @SnowshoeRider4Life: Manitou MARS spring as well
  • 4 10
flag GTscoob (Oct 31, 2023 at 12:06) (Below Threshold)
 @SnowshoeRider4Life: PUSH as well with their coil fork kits. Forks absolutely need an air bottom out since there isn't a linkage adding progression.

Plus DVO with their bladder adjustment. PUSH and Rockshox coil shocks have a similar bladder adjustment, it's just fixed from the factory and hard to adjust as a user.
  • 1 0
 Depends on the bike I'm rolling out of the garage. Big Grin
  • 20 1
 Imagine mounting four of these Tigons on your VW Tiguan.
  • 10 2
 $900??? I'm buying a dirtbike
  • 6 1
 @gregs22: Tigon isn’t bishoxual, Tigon is just coair.
  • 5 1
 @GTscoob: All coil forks have an air spring used for progression as the internal area of the fork leg is sealed, different oil levels are used to tune the progression by changing the volume like to bottom out spacer, take the spring out of a coil fork and put the cap back on and you can feel the air ramp up.
  • 10 2
 @wildBeast07: What kind of dirtbike are you buying with the $900 you saved not buying a shock no one expects you to buy?
  • 4 1
 @SnowshoeRider4Life: you mean air and oil together?
  • 4 0
 @maglor: that's the way we used to adjust forks back in the good ol' days with more or less oil. But there was a short period Marz and I think Fox had an air cap that you could add air and increase the PSI to the coil chamber. Its early as I write this and its been near 15 years since I've had one so the details are fuzzy.
  • 3 0
 @mattyboyr6-2: My marz DJ fork from 2004 still in operation is coil sprung but both legs can be pressurized for more support. Damping performance is awful though... and it has always topped out quite badly.
  • 3 0
 @mattyboyr6-2: my marzocchi dropoff had that.
  • 1 0
 @mcleodpulaski: I'll take a Husqvarna TE 250 if you're offering to buy me one.
  • 1 0
 @wildBeast07: No clue how you arrived at this. I sure do love my TE300 Heritage though.
  • 1 1
 @wildBeast07: have you priced dirt bike shocks?
  • 57 2
 So this could help solve the problem on bikes whose frames are no very progressive themselves and thus are not the best for coil shocks. And also those bike frames which put a lot of stress on a shock stanction and can more easily damage a coil shock due to the smaller stanctions? That seems like a product that can really fill a bit of a hole in the current shock space.
  • 20 33
flag KickFlipABike (Oct 31, 2023 at 7:57) (Below Threshold)
 "Problem" is a strong word, and incorrect.

Read the Starling Cycles reviews on Pinkbike. All of them get generally high praise. And because of single pivot designs, the bikes are actually digressive a little bit. The complaint is that the bike blows through its travel, as expected, but for

The reason why manufacturers tell people not to put coil shocks on is because people will often pick too soft of a spring rate to match how the bike feels with an air shock, and then blow through travel and damage the frame.
  • 9 6
 The question is are those real problems, air shocks are ok in such a case, they are less sensitive and provide a bit less grip but honestly, if coil shock would vanish from this universe one day, we all would just ride air and would be ok.
Also Starling would disagree with you Smile From my experience, there are situations when coil shock is better even on a linear frame, in places where you can pump a lot but you do not bottom out often (e.b. you can jump and there are landings). Contrary to the popular belief coil shock may feel sporty, cause they have this legendary midstroke support.
  • 10 2
 @KickFlipABike: sounds like a problem to me
  • 13 14
 @kleinblake: Comment got cut off. Blowing through the travel is an issue for freeride, but for trail/enduro, all that means is that you are actually using more travel in regular situations, leading to an overall smoother ride as the wheel maintains traction better, which is partly why those bikes are reviewed to be super comfortable descenders.

The damping also plays more of an effect since the shaft speeds stay higher, so your knobs do way more for you.

Most all dirt bikes with the exception of high end enduro ones where you need ground clearance use a linkage system that translates the rotary motion of the swingarm into linear motion of the shock, for those exact reasons.
  • 14 1
 @KickFlipABike: If you have to pick too soft of a spring to make your coil shock as supple as your air shock that is a problem and defeats the purpose of having a coil.
  • 5 6
 @KickFlipABike: absolutely correct I don’t know why you’re being downvoted. You just need to correct spring rate, correct tune and the right size and durometer bottom bumper. You don’t need to add a high pressure air spring that completely defeats the purpose of a coil shock. I’m running a coil on a 2017 process that apparently isn’t possible.
  • 9 5
 @thenotoriousmic: people downvoting because they’re terrified of making full travel
  • 6 2
 @KickFlipABike: absolutely, plus riders are so fixated on sag that they don't focus on support, which is essential with a coil spring. Spring for the mid-stroke and bottom-out support that you need and deal with how top-out feels. Comfort riders always underspring themselves.
  • 2 0
 @jakemorley: preach
  • 1 0
 I sid wonder on the likes of the stumpjumper and status where anyone over 200lb is needing mucho psi support
  • 1 1
 @KickFlipABike: I've never seen someone get so many downvoted and hidden comments in one feed because they feel the need to just keep spouting off. Good on you for the dedication bro.
  • 1 1
 @zach6251: most anything having anything to do with factual reality instead of industry state propaganda gets downvoted into oblivion because people won't think with their own heads and go with what the state propaganda says, that's why we non normies call them sheep. ever wonder how the collective psychosis of nazism took off? ever wondered how the current atrocities in the us took off? you retards should sit down and stfu, 90%+ of pinkbike literally isn't qualified enough to set up a bike and should be riding rigids
  • 1 0
 @baca262: You sound upset. Eat a snickers.
  • 42 1
 Good to see a brand looking at riders needs. Adjustable mid stroke/ramp and Clevis/eBike compatibility on a Coil shock is Boss.

Adding that Two year warrant is impressive... way to go Coil Creek.
  • 35 0
 The coil shock my evo has been dreaming of?!
  • 9 0
 I have the Kitsuma Air on my Evo but have been coil curious. This shock looks like it could be a perfect shock for the Evo.
  • 27 0
 @FrankS29: SJ evo & Tigon sittin' in a tree.... Smile
  • 13 0
 @CaneCreekCyclingComponents: I'll sit in a tree and kiss whoever you need me to if you want to send one my way!

If you toss in a Helm Coil, I might even let them round 3rd base...
  • 12 43
flag KickFlipABike (Oct 31, 2023 at 7:59) (Below Threshold)
 Should be dreaming of a different bike that isn't gimped by shitty linkage lmao.
  • 8 1
 Running a SD Coil with HBO on my Evo with a cascade link and its a perfect setup, granted I bought both lightly used but even at retail that combo is still a couple hundred bucks cheaper and a little less to go wrong mechanically.
  • 1 0
 Thinking the exact same thing
  • 1 0
 @Aem221: also running a cascade link but with a new X2. had a 2022 X2 with a custom tune and it was amazing but when fox agreed to warranty the shock entirely, i took them up on the offer
  • 2 3
 @KickFlipABike: lots of emotional stumpjumper riders here I guess. I would never get a bike with a yoke driven shock.
  • 32 0
 that middle shot encapsulates "Pisgah Gnar" pretty well...
  • 36 0
 "preach"
  • 6 0
 The classic Pilot Rock if you’re curious as to the specific trail
  • 3 0
 @yerfdogtnarg: new line to me. Have to give it a go
  • 7 0
 Rode this trail on a hardtail mid thunderstorm. Would not reccomend.
  • 1 0
 @connorgsmith3: you're a mad lad, that's a serious trail for a hardtail
  • 2 0
 @connorgsmith3: would haven been better on a kayak if riding hard enough
  • 28 0
 Ok take my money. I've got to try one. Love the functions/features of this shock.
  • 30 0
 Tigon or Liger?
  • 3 0
 Good eye - I was not familiar with that portmanteau.
  • 4 0
 Is the Tigon as skilled in magic as the Liger?
#votepedro
  • 23 0
 In would say this kills one bird with two stones
  • 31 0
 At least it kills the bird. Lots of bike tech used 3 to 4 stones to kill a non-existent bird.
  • 5 0
 Better one bird in the hand than ten in the air.
  • 3 0
 What's with all this bird stoning?
  • 2 0
 @Otago: they were flipping the bird
  • 17 1
 Maybe I read the article too quick and I'm sure I'll get called out, but isn't the lack of seals/wipers part of the appeal of a coil shock? Does the addition of a pressurized chamber and its associated seals reduce the sensitivity of the coil shock?
  • 28 0
 Good question! Tigon has half as many seals compared to regular air shock, because it doesn't use a negative air spring in the RAMP Tube. Instead, to counteract the positive air spring, a small physical, negative spring aids in removing initial stiction. Tigon is far more sensitive than a typical air shock, b/c of this small negative coil spring inside, that’s working to compress shock through roughly first 10mm of stroke!

With fewer seals, a much lower pressure, and the physical negative coil spring, stiction and heat buildup are still greatly reduced compared to air shock. RAMP Tube gives the benefits of air and definitely works to minimize the downsides.
  • 5 2
 @CaneCreekCyclingComponents: without the negative air spring and seals, what's keeping dirt and grit from getting into the space between the Ramp Tube and the shock body and scratching it?
  • 5 0
 @hg604: You can still have a wiper seal without air seals directly behind it. Just like every fork out there.
  • 1 1
 @CaneCreekCyclingComponents: Half as many moving seals compared to a regular shock ? The x2 has 1x positiv 1x Negativ 1x damper shaft 1x ifp = 4 moving seals I guess the tigon has 1x Air chamber 1x damper shaft and 1x ifp = 3 moving seals? makes one less seal compared to a traditional damper
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: Yeah obviously, but is there actually one in there?
  • 1 0
 @hg604: I'm sure there is something, they're not idiots. There does seem to be an addition lip of some sort below the quad-seal on that opened up picture.
  • 4 0
 @emptybox: I think they mean air seals. The main air seals on a self-equalizing shock handle more pressure and don't benefit from oil on one side compared to the damper head and IFP seals, so they have more effect on stiction and friction. No air-neg means one less, or half as many, dynamic _air_ seals.
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: i know. But they said it has half as many seals wich doesnt seem to be true.
  • 1 0
 @emptybox: yes, and the context of the original comment was "addition of pressurized [air] chamber and associated [air] seals", of which there are half as many compared to a shock with air-neg. That is true.
  • 15 1
 **Feed two birds with one scone :-)

Looks like a dope piece of technology! Kudos, Cane Creek!
  • 10 0
 I thought the saying was "two birds getting stoned"?
  • 3 0
 2 birds stoned at the sames time
  • 1 1
 Prolly make their stomachs explode, good call.
  • 1 0
 @dfbland: or two stoners flipping the bird?
  • 11 0
 This shock seems awesome, and I have had a great time with my Cane Creek DBIL coil. Would love to give it a demo ride, but it would need to overcome the high price and weight.
  • 16 1
 Maybe a game changer??
  • 5 2
 Marzocchi did the same setup with a coil shock in their pre Fox days with Rocco TST R, where you could add psi to add bottom out resistance. It wasn't that game changing.

Honestly I don't see much use of this given modern big air can shocks that are perfectly linear in the first 70% of the travel with no spacers.

The major benefit of this is the shaft diameter, which is a good problem solver for frames that can't take a coil shock due to yoke linkages.
  • 3 1
 There is probably some benefit to reduced seal drag on a coil shock. Less surface area of friction surfaces so damping stays more consistent longer. Longer service intervals. I think air is getting really close to coil suppleness, especially with adjustable negative springs, but coil will offer that more reliably without ever checking pressures.
  • 14 0
 when can we expect the Liger?
  • 9 0
 @CaneCreekCyclingComponents I'm curious why you didn't include external HSR. You said you feel you can handle it internally, but the idea of pumping up this chamber to 30 psi and me being 200 lbs with no way to add HSR after a big drop is a little concerning versus someone 120 lbs with 10 psi on the same tune.

The wide range of adjustments is why I love running a Kitsuma coil on my current bike! Keep making cool stuff though would love to try a helm.
  • 4 0
 This was my first thought. I've experienced situations with air shocks that have a LOT of volume spacers to compensate for linear suspension designs, and since the spring force at bottom-out is so huge, HSR would be VERY handy to mitigate the rebound. Unless the actual spring force between 10 and 30psi charge is a pretty small range, I'd think HSR would be very handy for those at the higher side of the psi setting.
  • 2 0
 But I’m already crashing the landing from the effects of insufficient HSR damping caused by pumping into irregular jump faces! Same same
  • 12 0
 @howejohn We totally understand your sentiment! In fact many of us here run pretty heavily damped HSR settings. The fact of the matter is that internalizing the HSR allowed us to get a stronger and more consistent damping force than if we were to use an external adjuster. This was necessary to better handle the added return spring force generated by the RAMP Tube. In fact, Tigon builds more HSR damping force than our other shocks. We designed it specifically with fast riding, and hitting big features in mind! We think the overall rebound range on offer, including what the LSR can do to the behavior of the shock works well for a wide range of spring rates. Ultimately, if someone really wants the maximum adjustability - we're still stoked to be offering that on our other shocks.
  • 6 0
 Looks like there is No HSR because the rebound is a shimmed valved on the piston attached to shaft and is just a bypass bleed similar to the new Fox twin tubes (except the piston is on the opposite end of the shaft of the reservoir, and also why LSR adjuster is on top not bottom). This is better setup than an adjustable HSR because that requires a preloaded poppet which limits your curve to digressive, verses a shimmed valve that allows for a linear, progressive or regressive curve. but tune can only be changed by taking it apart.
  • 2 0
 @TOOTRIKK: Shimmed valves can be "preloaded" as well. Either just just a coil pushing the stack towards closed, or something fancy like Fox's VVC which changes the rate of the spring holding it closed as opposed to the preload of that spring.

Where it might become difficult is when the main oil reservoir is on the opposite side of the shock from the tunable valves. The shaft displaced oil now MUST go through the shaft to get to the tunable valves, and there must not be enough flow there to get the kind of HSR damping they want. Same reason the Float DPX2 never got adjustable HSR, nor any "upside-down" type shocks, really.
  • 1 0
 @CaneCreekCyclingComponents: any chance you'll be offering an option to get HSR tuned from the factory? As someone who will need the 650lb spring I strongly suspect I will need more HSR then provided by default
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: Obviously shimmed valves can be preloaded but unlike poppets they don’t have to be. My thoughts in this case were that they moved the rebound valving to the main shaft with washer style shims to get away from digressive rebound tunes. Is there a shock with adjustable HSR that does not use poppets and the therefore a digressive curve? Maybe 11-6 and parabolic needles?
  • 1 0
 @TOOTRIKK: X2 has been using VVC on the main piston shims stacks for HSR, and this is enabled since it's a "right-side-up" design and the main piston is static relative to the lower eyelet where the adjuster sits.

Could conceivably add adjustability to the compression stack on there as well, but they must get enough HSC tunability from the bike-specific stacks combined with the adjustable upper-eyelet valves that it's not worth the complexity to jam another VVC adjuster into the shaft.
  • 8 0
 I was just looking at the kitsuma coil and the Rockshox for my rig since my X2 feels like ... well you all are aware. Now I need to add a 3rd to the mix.

I really wish you could demo a shock and see if you truly like it before plonking down your hard earned cash. Shoot I would even head to the factory and pay $50 for a day rental and buy at the end. Hey CaneCreek make it so!!
  • 15 2
 I am on the 2024 X2 and it is excellent. If you've got a 2021 - 2023 X2 even out of warranty, send it to fox. Good chance they will send you a brand new 2024. My 2021 was fucked, losing air and sounded like crap. Dropped it off and picked up a new one the next day. Even if you don't like it, well you have a brand new shock.
  • 56 0
 @Muggsly We'd love to have you! Reach out to our Inside Sales Team by emailing support@canecreek.com or better yet, give us a call at 828-641-9560 and we can make it a reality!
  • 2 0
 @pisgahgnar: was in the exact same position - Fox handed over a brand new 24' and its amazing so far.
  • 5 2
 @pisgahgnar: Fox has lost the edge. The new VVC dampers are shit, they can't get anywhere close to firm compression because of the design.
  • 3 0
 @pisgahgnar: Yeah-to their credit Fox has finally sacked up and is taking care of folks, and they seem to have fixed the issues with the X2
  • 7 0
 @CaneCreekCyclingComponents: If not this Friday next Fri you guys will be hearing from me!
  • 2 0
 @pisgahgnar: Hmmmm my X2 was great for a few months then developed a clunk and started getting air in it... I bought it used, you think they'd warranty it or you need receipts?
  • 6 0
 @CaneCreekCyclingComponents: wait, really? that's awesome. I will be taking you up on that as well, just probably not until spring-ish
  • 2 0
 @OCSunDevil: worth a call to your nearest service center. Warranty repair requires a receipt when you check the box, but just give them a call and see what they say. If they do make you pay they’ll update it with stronger materials.
  • 10 0
 @CaneCreekCyclingComponents this thing is cool and all, and I'ma let you finish, but... when we getting a 170mm 29er HELM? =)
  • 12 0
 That Sam dude RIPS
  • 6 0
 I wonder, does this open the way for a reverse vivid? A coil with the customization of an air shock? Maybe you could run a lighter coil and have more PSI? Anyway, im sure the looks when you ask for a shock pump will be priceless.
  • 4 0
 the suppleness of coil with the ramp up of air... in one shock... could this be better than modern air can tune'a'bility??
  • 5 0
 @naptime: That's what I was thinking about - and because you're running a lighter coil you'll have very good small bump sensitivity but you wont be at risk of bottoming out cause of air. AND you wont even have to worry about the fact it sucks for climbing, because of the lockout switch.
  • 2 0
 @joebiden: doesnt seem like they're running a lighter coil in test.
  • 2 3
 @CSdirt: depends how fat/fast they are.. 450 is too light for me
  • 9 0
 Damn it. Was just about to get an ext e-storia for my stumpy evo, now there's this. Torn in between now!
  • 10 0
 Don't discredit the value of a company building a tune for your frame, rider weight, and riding style. EXT does that and its a large part of what makes their shocks so good. The CC is up to you to figure it out. (Although yes this is a cool idea).
  • 3 0
 FYI if you get a EXT through Cascade with one of their links you get the link for 50% off.
  • 7 15
flag KickFlipABike (Oct 31, 2023 at 8:14) (Below Threshold)
 Yoke driven linkages don't play well with thin shafts of coil shocks. If you don't snap the shaft, you will start getting leakage due to wear on the shaft seals/bushings.

Definitely get this one. Or better, yet a non shittily designed bike lol.
  • 6 0
 @KickFlipABike: that's the whole point of the e-storia, it has a steel shaft.
  • 1 0
 @cougar797: which is what brought me to them in the first place, along with the steel shaft
  • 2 0
 @Aem221: yeah I was thinking about the linkage too. People have been saying just the linkage swap makes the rear tracks better. Only issue is theres no way to test ride, and it's not a small purchase
  • 1 14
flag KickFlipABike (Oct 31, 2023 at 8:42) (Below Threshold)
 @amaranth: Steel is actually worse in similar size and shape than aluminum because its more flexy. Shaft won't break, but bushings won't be happy. If that shaft has a good amount of material in the wall thickness to make it less flexy, then yes, it will work, I don't know the details of the construction.
  • 7 0
 @KickFlipABike: I'm guessing you haven't seen an E-Storia up close. The steel shaft is super thick.
  • 3 0
 @KickFlipABike:

Correction—- Steel (any steel) is 3X stiffer than aluminum (any aluminum).
  • 1 6
flag KickFlipABike (Oct 31, 2023 at 9:00) (Below Threshold)
 @Stumpclumper: Yes, in Youngs modulus. I should have specified for the same strength level, steel will result in a thinner structure that is more flexy.
  • 1 0
 @wake-n-rake: I have it on my Stevo and the steel shaft is 14 mm thick.
  • 2 1
 Seems like an easy decision to me, I thought the whole point of having coil is that you DONT have the stiction of an air chamber o-ring between 200-1000psi
  • 9 0
 Ramp Tube was my nickname in high school.
  • 8 1
 It was your mom's nickname in high school
  • 2 0
 @warmerdamj: got his ass!!!
  • 6 0
 Does anyone know if this will also work on V1 Ripmos? I know they changed the progression starting with the AF, V2 and newer to allow for coils but V1s were strictly forbidden. This might finally be what replaces my X2.
  • 3 0
 It should... V1 Ripmo is clevis mount and linear making it not so good for Coil. This shock seems to give you more than enough progression, and, its Clevis mount compatible. Sounds like a Win/Win.
  • 8 0
 It should fit like a charm! The additional spring rate tuning and added strength of RAMP Tube make it the perfect next shock for that bike.
  • 2 0
 Thanks @CaneCreekCyclingComponents - I wonder if @ibiscycles would agree on using this with a V1 Ripmo.
  • 1 0
 @timinger: don’t care what they say, as long as you aren’t bottoming out hard the forces into the frame will be similar
  • 5 0
 Throwback to the original coil/air shock, the Stratos Helix pro

products.mtbr.com/product/suspension/rear-shock/stratos/helix-pro.html

Only reason I know about is because I have one on my 2000 Fuji (also has rockshox judy 32mm dual crowns).

Stratos met an early demise as specialized used their sketch lawsuit tactics to fold small companies, something that rightfully gave companies like the big 3 (Specialized,Trek,Giant) a bad name for a combination of patent infringement and frivolous lawsuits against bespoke competitors.

source
www.mtbr.com/threads/stratos-sued-and-out-of-business.225008
  • 1 0
 I was looking for this comment. Also remembering Stratos S6/S7/S8 forks.

I think it should be pointed out in the article, that the idea of air assisted coil spring shock is nothing new to the bike industry.
  • 7 0
 I think it's time for the tale about that 03 Odyssey. Perhaps on a podcast...
  • 9 0
 SPRINDEX not SPRINGDEX
  • 1 2
 Upvote this!!!!
  • 5 0
 SPRNDX - got it! Thanks for the catch!
  • 6 0
 Cool technology. I'm all for it it and think it possibly offers the best of both worlds. Well done, Cane Creek.
  • 4 1
 "The key difference between the progression that the Ramp Tube offers over a hydraulic bottom-out feature, found on coil shocks like the RockShox Super Deluxe Coil and EXT Storia, is that the force is dependent on the position of the damper, not the speed at which it compresses."

surely this is wrong, the HBO for those shocks only kicks in at the end of the stroke?
  • 26 2
 It's a tricky distinction to make. HBO controls work by forcing oil in the damper through a restricted opening that can often be tuned to provide more or less force. When the velocity of the compression increases, you're having to force that same oil through the same restricted orifice, but now at a faster rate. What this means is that the bottom out "resistance" force felt by the rider increases, and gets harsher when hitting things at really high speed. With RAMP Tube Technology, the spring force experienced at different points in the shock stroke is always the same, no matter how quickly the shock compressed to reach said point... This is why we say that RAMP Tube provides support that is "position dependent and not velocity dependent." Furthermore - RAMP Tube allows the rider to tune the overall spring rate of the shock, starting at the sag point. Though RAMP Tube can be adjusted to mitigate bottom out events, we don't see it as just a bottom out feature - its simply a better way to tune the overall characteristics of a coil shock.
  • 14 0
 For shocks with HBO/HBC it is position and speed sensitive which is what you want. Meaning in a really slow bottom out it will still get full travel but be softer through the end stroke than a really high velocity bottom out event. Further, a shock with a hydraulic bottom system dissipates that force making for a more controlled end stroke rather than adding another spring that stores the energy to return it during the rebound stroke. This is not necessarily the worst thing though it could be beneficial in making the bike more playful but it could be a trade off as well.
  • 4 1
 @notsosikmik: I'm glad someone has made this point, wild to me that no mention was made of this important distinction anywhere in the review.
  • 2 4
 @CaneCreekCyclingComponents: "we don't see it as just a bottom out feature - its simply a better way to tune the overall characteristics of a coil shock."

So why all the comparisons for HBO in this article? Would you not agree that a shock could even usefully have both, since they're doing different things, with only a bit of overlap?

Wouldn't the better comparison have been to progressive coils springs, or pure air springs, and especially air springs with more than 1 positive chamber?
  • 3 1
 @mattg95: it's both right and wrong: HBO being engaged or not is position sensitive (end of stroke only), but HBO force is speed sensitive (orifice-based damping). This might be ideal for certain bikes, riders, courses, so it's not apples to apples when comparing these things, despite how much this article seemed to shit on HBO.
  • 5 0
 @justinfoil: Agree with what you say and this is what makes EXT Aria Air shock so amazing. Essentially the second positive chamber combined with adjustable HBO (HBC) provides tuning of the end stroke characteristic that is impossible to get with any other shock currently. More pressure in the ++ will give you more rebound or "pop" off the end stroke. However, If there is too much that it becomes bouncy you can drop that pressure a little and add HBC damping to preserve the end stroke support. It really is a phenomenal shock and it really begs the question why we haven't seen a detailed review from Pinkbike on it yet.
  • 2 0
 @notsosikmik: Exctly that. Well said.
  • 3 0
 @notsosikmik: Just want to add for others asking this: hydraulic bottom out only starts at the end of the stroke which is why it's also position dependant. On the smashpot it's on the last 50 mm of the fork travel. Think of it as a mini damper that only starts getting squished near end of the stroke. When it finally gets activated it becomes velocity dependant. The ramp tube is active for the entire length of the stroke, but it seems the pressures are so low that the spring rate is barely noticeable until the shock is deeper in the travel.
  • 5 0
 Just like a Stratos shock from the mid 2000's. They went out of business but I never understood why no one else did a hybrid spring system, that shock was sweet.
  • 2 0
 I had a Stratos shock like this in 1999. It blew up after a couple of rides! I'm sure this shock is a lot more reliable though.
  • 1 0
 @JamesR2026: had the very same issues with it back in 2000. It was a stock shock on Wheeler 8000 DZX, it was really hard to keep this shock maintained and without leaks.
  • 7 3
 Seems like it is not ok to hate on this product. Almost all downvoted posts are about questions regarding the stiction that are inherent in all air sprung shocks. Why woulld this shock be any different?
  • 12 0
 It has 1 quad ring a scraper seal and using very low Pressure. So, the stiction will be significantly less than any air shock stiction
  • 6 3
 Because most people on PB think they are engineers and try to challenge everything. It's just how society is now, everyone has a big brain and big keyboard. Welcome to Babylon
  • 2 6
flag mtbynot (Oct 31, 2023 at 15:55) (Below Threshold)
 @pnyberg are you listening/reading what you are typing

"Seems like it is not ok to hate on this product." is your mission to spread "Hate"

Haven't even ridden the shock and you coming in hot with the BS and trying to counter technology
with your YouTube UNi degree.

PB is a JOKE and especially the people with no engineering or mechanical experience weighing in.
Best part is the ones that are contesting and challenging can say HSR,HSC, IFP, LSC,LSR but don't even touch the dials. Prob take the bike in for a derailleur adjustment on their
AXS also.....
  • 4 3
 @mtbynot: sir, please missunderstand me correctly. Hating on a product = give negative feedback. I am all for the opposite of hate - EAT.PRAY.LOVE and all that.

You on the other hand are making huge assumptions about me that you have zero base on making.
I simply asked why the question of the inherent friction that comes with seals are not allowed to be talked about? Cane Creek can chime in and spread their gospel - and I might be swayed that their new shock is not as stupid as it looks. I have a Kitsuma Coil and a Helm MK2 Coil and they are fantastic product. So i have nothing but good things to say about those products. But when new stuff are released I kinda want to know the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth - so to speak. Just eating the marketing is not my cup of tea.

I take it you are en expert within the field? If yes: please enlighten us on why we are wrong and you are correct.
  • 9 0
 @pnyberg It's been mentioned elsewhere in other responses - but it's a common enough question, so we're happy to elaborate. You make a good point about stiction from seals involved in any sort of air spring component. Usually air springs have two main sets of air tight seals. One to maintain pressure in the positive chamber, and one for the negative. In Tigon's RAMP Tube there is no negative air spring. Instead, we have a small, physical coil spring that acts as the negative spring on the shock. Mainly thanks to the use of this physical negative spring, along with the lack of one of the airtight seals, and the relatively low pressure, mean that Tigon actually has an incredibly low initiation force. As low, if not lower than our other coil shocks. We felt that the benefits of adding the RAMP Tube air component (tunable spring curve + significant increase in lateral strength) were compelling enough reasons for its design.
  • 5 0
 Good to see adjustment by allen key. I didn't really like their tool free dials (too stiff and vague).
  • 3 0
 Would this shock work for a Stumpjumper Evo? That frame (or at least the current generation) is not coil-friendly, but I've been wanting to install a coil shock for quite some time.
  • 10 0
 It would be perfect! You'll be able to get the amount of support you need to combat a relatively high leverage ratio and the RAMP Tube is far better equipped to handle the clevis-style mounting. We've tested Tigon on several Levos, which use a similar suspension design and layout and it rode great. You'll need a 210x55 Tigon with 20x8mm hardware for the leading shock eye. Rear/bottom eye uses the Stumpy hardware that's already on your bike and easy to swap over. Just calculate your spring rate and you're ready to rock!
  • 4 0
 It looks like this shock was practically designed for your bike.
  • 3 0
 @CaneCreekCyclingComponents: would it also work for specialized status 160/140, since it has almost the same shock layout and issues regarding coil shocks?
  • 1 0
 @CaneCreekCyclingComponents: what size spring though for the EVO? 50mm/2.00in?
  • 5 0
 @mikekazimer any chance you’ll trial this on your fuel ex?
  • 1 0
 Looks awesome but then I thought that of my other CC inline coil and db and they both died within a year of having them. Love what CC do, love how their kit rides but even with a 2 year warranty I doubt I’d be happy to risk that coin. I’m sure the US support is great but in my experience the support offered in other countries by CC distributors takes an annoying situation and turns it into a ball tearing nightmare.
  • 6 1
 My air shock rides like a coil Eek
  • 7 0
 *My coil shock ramps up like an airshock
  • 4 0
 @CaneCreekCyclingComponents, y'all rock! This shock looks amazing, thanks for making rad stuff.
  • 5 0
 I don't want high-tech, I just want something that works............
  • 3 2
 "The key difference between the progression that the Ramp Tube offers over a hydraulic bottom-out feature"

Is that it's a progressive spring vs progress damping.

"This design makes the Tigon feel consistent when reaching full travel and return at more consistent speeds."

So hydraulic speed-sensitive dampers aren't consistent? Should just ditch my GRIP2 and add a second air spring?

Return force is altered very very minorly by HBO... it's already consistent. Technically this has more potential for inconsistency if the air spring gets hotted up.
  • 2 0
 to add to this:
some designs (not brand specific) on HBO designs using BOC(bottom out cup)/piston on piston design, the secondary piston can be checked on rebound(having no effect) or can use orifice ports to control the comprssion and rebound into multiple zones.

HBO should have limited effect on recovery rate(rebound).

On the flip side a highly progressive low volume air spring will have an effect on rebound damping and increase recovery rate/rebound rate.

faster recovery rate/rebound is ideal, until it's not; through engineering and tuning this double edge sword can be dulled a bit
  • 1 0
 @way2manyhobbies2keep: super right. I think you can even see the check valves on the EXT Storia pics right here on PB. And while I haven't found a good pic of a Super Deluxe or Vivid, considering RockShox's charts show the rebound force curve, with zero changes from HBO adjustments, it's safe to assume that's checked as well.
  • 1 0
 The key difference between the progression that the Ramp Tube offers over a hydraulic bottom-out feature, found on coil shocks like the RockShox Super Deluxe Coil and EXT Storia, is that the force is dependent on the position of the damper, not the speed at which it compresses.

Is that really a problem? The force required to bottom out doesn't mysteriously change between compressions, so the shaft speed when it does so is going to be fairly consistent, surely?
  • 1 0
 OK, so I use Cane Creek coil suspension front and rear on my trail bike. So that pretty much shows where I stand on the air vs coil debate. But what concerns me here is how we're seeing more complex and expensive designs targeted at e-bikes. The industry is seeing shrinking sales volume, margins and market diversity. Manufacturers should be offering more accessible products not more stratospheric ones.
  • 1 0
 So many folk will remember the adjustable bottom out of old old rear shocks.
You could adjust the air pressure and the chamber size. Nobody really understood it and many blew them up opening the chamber to max then inflating to max psi before closing the chamber.

Fast forward 20 years we keep reinventing old things under different designs.
What has really changed?
  • 1 0
 I do wonder what additional striction the shock would have as it has the same air can seal on the shaft like an air shock. How would the friction be so much lower in this design than an air shock? You could almost say this may have the friction of an air shock with the weight of a coil shock. Some real world comparisons on a dyno against an air shock here would be good to see.
  • 4 0
 That riding shot on the rox is a beaut.

Which trail is that on?
  • 2 0
 Pilot Rock.
  • 4 0
 Pilot Rock, after the switchbacks, I think?

www.trailforks.com/trails/pilot-rock
  • 3 0
 @pisgahgnar: Deep into the rock garden, after the lookout. Funny, that line in the photo is before the "local line" rock roll, and ends as a huck to flat. I know this because I nearly blew up on it a few weeks ago.
  • 6 0
 @pisgahgnar: nice, I wouldn't have guessed that one.

Rode it twice, both times were in sub optimal conditions. One was at sunset, so we were rushing to get down - we were parked over in the Turkey Pen trail head (yeah we screwed up major and misjudged some timing, I blame it on the beer).

Second time was in the snow and ice. The ride up Laurel was brutal, it just got colder and colder. Nothing like having frozen rhododendron leaves slapping your hands on the way down haha.

Need to get back and ride it in the warm sun...
  • 2 0
 @Canadmos: oh man. And you think you are there, then you hit the wall after Sassafras Gap. Not a Pisgah ride if you’re not hiking your bike a little.
  • 1 0
 @slayersxc17: You mean carrying your bike on your shoulders, up that staircase of rock just after Sassafras Gap.
  • 2 0
 @ZSchnei: oh yeah, the best part
  • 3 0
 @slayersxc17: I'll take hike-a-bike any day, over crossing the river 53 times on the Riverside trail. If only we had just stayed straight on Bradley Creek Trail... lol lol
  • 1 0
 @Canadmos: There's a doozy of a creek crossing at the very end of Bradley Creek, as well, and sometimes the water level will be above your waist, moving too fast to cross. The only legal and "dry" way from that point back to Turkey Pen is to push up Laurel Creek, go down Squirrel to Mullinax to S Mills, but gross.

If you look carefully, right before the deep crossing on Bradley Creek to the right, there is an old staircase and an old hiking trail. It showed up on one of my maps but not the other, dumps you out at the bridge on S Mills. You couldn't ride it if you tried, but it's one way to bypass that crossing. It was/is a proper bushwhack though, so you are better off just avoiding that area if the water levels are high.
  • 1 0
 @Canadmos: Made this mistake years ago. In fact, my wife lost her shoe on one of the crossings (before we started crossing in our shoes) which I later found stuck in a log jam further down the river. We haven't been on Riverside Trail since.
  • 2 0
 @ZSchnei: let’s be honest Bradley Creek Trail isn’t a hiking or biking trail. It’s for fishermen. Did a race that took me on that trail a few years ago.
  • 1 0
 @slayersxc17: PMBAR... tup
  • 2 0
 @ZSchnei: you know it! 111k went up
Bradley Creek RD this year. It was a welcome turn on our journey
  • 1 0
 @Canadmos: Bradley creek trail is gonna give you same result, at least the portion north or Laurel creek
  • 1 0
 @slayersxc17: I've completed three 111k's and each took me to the darkest places in my mind while on a bike. Between Bradley Creek rd, Yellow Gap trail, the climb out of NMR, and then Laurel/Pilot at 55 miles in, I said no this year.
  • 1 0
 @Canadmos: if you want to do pilot from turkey pen I think the best way back is up to the top of horse cove and ride horse all the way to the bottom then out to turkey pen parking.
  • 2 0
 @ZSchnei: oh I hear you. Yellow Gap Trail is the dumbest. I hated my decision to do it this year on that section. Thankfully the climb up Laurel is chill, but then all hell breaks loose again.
  • 1 0
 @slayersxc17: PMBAR 2024 Facepalm
  • 2 0
 @ZSchnei: I’ll be there!
  • 3 0
 So is this a coil shock with the benefits of air.... or a coil shock with the same disadvantages as an air shock.
  • 2 0
 Or air shock with minuses of the coil shock?
  • 2 1
 Yes, a coil shock that requires the same service intervals of an air shock.
  • 4 0
 "Which one do you prefer, air or coil? Yes"
  • 4 0
 Solid promo video as well. Well done CC!
  • 1 1
 I hope they addressed the rebound damping issue they had with the kitsuma coil. and air shocks. I had an air on my ripmo and a coil on my specialized enduro and could not get the damping fast enough on either. Had to return them.
  • 3 0
 Weird. I have run two Kitsuma coils on Banshee bikes (Spitfire and Titan), and an air as well.

I have the Kitsuma Air right now on a Banshee Titan which has a long backend and is known for its lack of 'pop'. Zero issues speeding up the rebound on the air to create a really poppy feel, and quite a bit of ranges left to go further.

I recall Pink Bike reviewed the Kitsuma a whole back and had similar complaint about getting range in the fast side, and vaguely remember Cane Creek changing tuning. Maybe you had an early version?
  • 2 0
 Could be bike specific. I have few bad things to say about the Kitsuma Coil on my ‘22 153. Could use some more pop but it EATS chunk.
  • 2 0
 I have the 2022 Trek Slash 8 with thru-shaft shock. I wonder if I should sell that bike and buy the new Slash or if I should upgrade my Slash with this Shock.
  • 2 2
 It’s difficult in this style of day-the-product-drops review to tease apart what information comes from the reviewer and what comes from the company. It’s not a press release, it’s not a first look. But PB just a couple days ago said they don’t have a machine to generate that force-travel plot, and some of this stuff sounds an awful lot like PR (cane creek worked tirelessly…). You could start by just saying what you determined independently versus what you’re passing along
  • 5 1
 This thing looks like it costs $300 to rebuild.
  • 2 2
 "The first was with ... 25 psi in the Ramp Tube. The second involved... 10 psi of additional ramp from the pneumatic bottom-out feature."

That's 35 psi in the tube. Why would they set you up beyond their own recomendations or 10-30 psi?
  • 1 1
 Two different setups. The first setup had 25 in the chamber. The second setup used 10 in the chamber. Re-read the full paragraph.
  • 1 1
 @timmyh810: Umm, yeah, it says "25 psi" first time, and then it says "10 psi of additional". That sounds like 25 PLUS (from ADDITIONal) 10 equals 35 total.
  • 1 1
 @justinfoil: in the context of the paragraph, it is not saying in addition to the first setup. It is following the set up of a new process from zero. e.g. - We added an additional 10 psi to the camber in relation to the higher spring rate now used. It could be worded better for sure, but it works within the context of the paragraph.
  • 1 0
 @timmyh810: unclear. Should have just said "500 pound spring and 10 psi". No need for "additional" unless they needed to pad the word count.
  • 2 2
 "Cane Creek's Tigon is a one-of-a-kind coil shock with a pneumatic bottom-out control that produces consistent spring forces."

"The RockShox Super Deluxe Coil's hydraulic bottom-out control is dependent on shaft speed."

What's with the apples to oranges comparison?

CC says Ramp Tube is NOT just for bottom out control. It's also a part of the spring system, not part of the damping system.

The Super Deluxe Coil also produces consistent spring forces, because HBO is not part of the spring system. It adds _damping_ forces based on both _position_ (last 15%) and shaft speed. And the speed sensitivity can actually be very good, because high shaft speeds means big forces incoming, which you may want big damping forces to counter, especially since there is only 15% travel remaining when it engages.

PB is terrible at comparing, can only seem to contrast.
  • 5 1
 High praise from Matt. Seems like a sick product.
  • 1 0
 I concur; although the reverse air to combustion ration lends itself to a more dynamic flux of riboflavin intake. Science, tech, words...........pedal up, ride down, repeat. It used to be so simple.
  • 1 0
 More simple would be to get a coil shock with HBO and use a progressive spring. Less Deals,less service,less WEIGHT,more Sensitivity than an Air Hybrid shock. Just no unlimited adjustment tust is the only disadvantage
  • 5 6
 Concerning the fact that on EXT shock the HBO is dependent of force and not position it is false... EXT did engineered their HBO to be ONLY effective on the last 15% of the travel and not the other part. Actually there is a really good article explaining how it works... on Pinbike :

"EXT's solution addresses that by delivering a 50% increase in the force required to compress the shock during the last 15% of the travel.
How does it work? As the shock nears the end of its travel, a secondary piston passes through a smaller tube. This increases the hydraulic pressure, and helps keep the shock from bottoming out. On EXT's Arma DH shock, the amount of bottom out resistance is adjustable, but on the Storia Lok it's pre-set from the factory."
  • 4 0
 I think they meant that the damping itself is speed sensitive. Once you're into the 15% that HBO handles, shaft speed determines the HBO force.
  • 2 0
 Everything is more fluent nowadays.
Male can become female, female can become male and coil can become air Big Grin
  • 2 0
 Now I have to save more money because this fits my 130mm trail frame I'm planing to buy. I will never have money...
  • 1 2
 Hello everyone i am abert marcoley from USA i want to tell the whole world of great Dr onobun herbal mixture i was unhappy ever since my girlfriend back then in college mocked me of having a small penis and weak in bed ,ever since then i have been trying to improve my sex life but all effort failed ..but it got worse when i got married ,my wife is so angry with me and Threatened to leave me if i do not find a way and i love my wife so much so one faithful day i was reading some comments on a blog then i saw a comment of one Mr Tom Sullivan new Orleans testifying of how Dr onobun helped him enlarge his penis and Fertilise his sperm count so i quickly contacted him and he got back to me and i did as he said ..to my greatest surprise i got 10 inches within two weeks of using his herbal medicine and now its just 3 weeks i am having 10.5 inches i am so happy now..my wife told me am so good in bed that i almost killed her last night all thanks to him note he also cure sicknesses and diseases like
PENIS ENLARGEMENT ERECTILE DYSFUNCTION DIABETES type 1 and type 2 HERPES GENITAL WART
LOW SPERM COUNT WEAK ERECTION
BREAST ENLARGEMENT
PROSTRATE CANCER
HIV/AIDS
PREMATURE EJACULATION
Kidney cure
so if you need his help contact him on dronobunherbalhome@gmail.com or whatsapp him on +2348100339813.
  • 2 3
 The adjustment hex key on my new DB air inline is rusted and looks rough in about the second week of ownership. Why would Cane Creek make a high end shock with cheap hex key that rust immediately? Is it just me? Or has this happened to other people as well. Not really a big deal as the shock is amazing otherwise. This new Tigon looks great!
  • 7 0
 Interesting, I have had mine for over a year and no rust on the lever.. Was actually going to say how much I love that 3mm tool on my IL.
  • 4 0
 4 years on my DB inline coil, and looks like new. Not sure what made your rust?
  • 2 0
 If you wash your bike at home check your water hardness. I get a lot of surface rust on chains and bolts because of this and it is harmless.
  • 1 0
 Mine is rusted, but I figure it is due to my sweat. If it is protected from that, then likely won't rust. Also depends on soil that could get on it. Some soils are more caustic than others to bare metal.
  • 3 0
 That’s great… now tell us more about the Odyssey
  • 1 0
 Sorry if I missed it but what makes this safer on clevis style shock mounts than other coils? I thought they snap due to the lateral forces the frame administers.
  • 3 0
 Shaft size.
  • 2 2
 You see that big fat shaft with the air piston on it? And that it's the thign connected to the lower eyelet? That helps handle the loads better than the 9 or 10mm shaft the damping piston rides on, and which is the sole structure that holds the lower eyelet in traditional coil shocks.

The architecture of this is closer to a Float DPX2 with a coil strapped on, than a Kitsuma Coil or DB Coil with an air can strapped on
  • 1 0
 Didn’t Stratos have a hybrid shock back in the 90s? I wonder what issues plagued it. That’s more the magazine era, not the interweb times.
  • 2 0
 I think I need one and finally the size I need is available...damn it, poor x-mas for my family
  • 2 0
 Dang it, I was really hoping for a new longer travel helm variant when I saw the announcement.
  • 1 0
 Ok so maybe Canecreek can answer since they’re still making both this and the kitsuma is one better or worse for bikes that have enough progression to run a coil already?
  • 5 0
 Several factors could go in to this decision. Kitsuma still has higher oil volume in the damper, made in full DH sizes, and includes the classic DB four way adjustment. It's a shock that we would say is still positioned for the rider that wants to get down the hill as fast as possible. A racer is likely to still choose Kitsuma - or someone who really enjoys being able to use the easy 4 way adjustment! Tigon on the other hand offers a different type of control over the spring rate and is really targeted to more mid-travel bikes that might need a little more grip & support (at the same time) for pushing the boundaries of your riding. Tigon is generally a better fit than Kitusma for clevis mount frames due to the additional bracing from RAMP Tube. If one has a mid travel bike that has plenty of progression and already runs standard coil shocks just fine (and doesn't involve clevis mount) then we would say Kitsuma or even IL are still awesome options - at a slightly lower pricepoint. We love all of our children! Smile
  • 1 0
 @workingclasswhore From the article; "Even with the maximum 30 psi in there, I never found the ramp force to be too harsh or have any hint of seal stiction."
  • 1 0
 How often people forget the past. Statos shocks did something similar to assist the coil and provide bottom out control.
  • 1 1
 Float DHX 4.0 & 5.0 also did similar, using the IFP chamber. If I put 30 psi more in my IFP, doesn't that do the same thing?

They didn't mention IFP structure here. Is it even IFP, or bladder?
  • 2 0
 look likes old stratos helix dh pro
  • 1 0
 Yup, nothing is new anymore. Took myself down a Risse Racing rabbit hole before remembering that it was Stratos
  • 1 0
 Exactly what I thought as soon as I saw this. I still have a helix stratos on an old 26er that collects dust in my garage.
  • 1 0
 For sure, great product but Stratos Shocks were plagues by reliability issues. The short stroke in-line version was great on a trail bike, when it worked.

Sound familiar? Smile
  • 2 0
 I bet that feels good to ride.
  • 2 0
 @CaneCreekCyclingComponents when does this shock hit the UK please?
  • 1 0
 It seems similar to the old Marzocchi forks that had a preload chamber for the coil springs
  • 5 4
 This shock sure looks like a winner and like CC jumped right over the EXT et al.
  • 2 4
 I don't know how this is better in any way compared to a regular air shock. Same amount of seals means it has as much stiction as an air shock, yet it weights as much as a coil shock, while offering similar progression as an air shock. Feels like it is made for riders who want the look of a cool shock, while actually needing an air shock.
  • 1 3
 I love Cane Creek and have nothing but respect for all the guys over there, but the name? I mean come on dude... Double down on representing WNC and the PNF and just call it the Farllow...made for better handling chunk than the Kitsuma....
  • 6 0
 Maybe it's time to let Tigons be Tigons
  • 1 0
 @CaneCreekCyclingComponents please make us a 38 coil fork with this same technology!
  • 2 0
 Talk to Avalanche Suspension! Hybrid coil conversion is that.
  • 1 0
 Is it just me or does this seem like that push does with their acs3 coil fork swaps?
  • 1 0
 It is almost exactly the same, except that the air spring in ASC3 is completely disengaged until the last half(ish) of travel.
  • 1 0
 very cool, and probably the future of suspension on big travel bikes and e-bikes.
  • 1 0
 I run a progressive MRP coil with a rock shox (pre HBO) super deluxe coil, no bottoming out, mayor of plush town.
  • 2 0
 Genius idea.
  • 4 3
 stiction AND weight. best of both worlds!
  • 1 0
 This is what I will call a "trans-shock".
  • 1 0
 Looks like an RC4 Too bad Fox dropped it.
  • 2 0
 HELM YEAH CCCC
  • 1 0
 New trend - coil like an air
  • 1 0
 Would love to see what Steve @ Vorsprung Suspension thinks about this.
  • 28 31
 PB: gets a fork from DVO, takes their sweet time reviewing it
Also PB: gets a shock from CC, posts a review the day it's released
Also Also PB: we don't take ad revenue into consideration when reviewing our products
  • 23 1
 In fairness, CC has like 40 employees and their marketing budget tiny. Shit like that generally comes down to a company being on top of sending out new products for testing in a timely fashion and saying "we want the review of it to be released on the day we do our press release, which will be this specific day."

Which is what you see happen on pinkbike the vast majority of the time a new product gets released.

Don't get me wrong. I like to make fun of pinkbike. It keeps me juiced. Like any other review site that sees any revenue from advertising the products they're reviewing, they have huge conflicts of interest.

But the DVO review makes me think more that DVO never bothered to send them anything, and then noticed that sales were flagging in the face of over producing and a global pullback on consumer discretionary spending, and sent it out hoping for a boost in visibility to make some sales, more than it makes me think pinkbike f*cked up and didn't get around to reviewing it or was purposely withholding a review.

Purposely withholding a review while asking for more money would make waves around the industry real fast and burn a lot of bridges.
  • 15 0
 PB readers: Very interested in this novel new shock
Also PB readers: Don't give a f*ck about a DVO fork
  • 7 0
 @William42: I'll agree that it might have a lot to do with Cane Creek having Matt come out, set up a few bikes, ride them and sent him home with a shock (maybe the whole bike?).

But in all fairness to DVO, they sent that Onyx into PB for review a year and a half ago...
  • 7 0
 At least PB is pretty transparent about who their advertisers are if you look at the main page in desktop version. I don’t see Cane Creek as an advertiser.

From a purely personal standpoint, I’ve had the same experience with DVO stuff. Broke the second ride, dropped it off myself at their building, they forgot about it and took two months, then broke again. Maybe it’s better to hold off on reviews with negative tones for companies and let everyone figure it out themselves?
  • 4 0
 @chakaping: 100%...this is way more interesting that "DVO launched a 38mm fork" and should therefore get much more attention and prioritization
  • 7 0
 @birdsandtrees: I don't think the problem is that the review is negative, it's that PB wasn't very transparent or informative about what they did to try and rectify the problem with the DVO. There's also a broader trend forming of Seb Stott saying "boy, I can't get this shock set up the way I'd like it to be" with anything other than Fox/RS.

Figuring out why a product isn't performing well is pretty important. I want that info, or info on how far PB went to figure it out. Definitely see some differences there. With the Slash review, PB talked to two companies (Trek and MRP), and figured it out. DVO claims that they were ghosted. I imagine the Trek review would have been pretty negative if they didn't figure out the chain drop issue.
  • 6 0
 @TheRamma: Putting my tinfoil hat on for a sec, but do we possibly think that Pinkbike might care more about Trek's opinion than DVO's?
  • 2 0
 @DirtyHal: yeah. Also fair to say Trek has more people on staff, and a deeper bench. They might give answers sooner, etc..

That's why transparency is important from PB. Maybe Trek got back to them with a fix same day, and DVO took weeks. Who knows?
  • 2 0
 @TheRamma: super valid. Definitely nothing against DVO’s customer service. You can literally call and talk to them. Just curious (and I believe you) where does DVO claim they were ghosted?
  • 4 0
 @birdsandtrees: In the Onyx 36 review.

The Onyx 36 was sent to PB about a year and half ago and evidently it was finally tested (very oddly as it's being replaced by the Onyx 38 ).

DVO claimed that Seb did let them know about the issues he claimed to be having, DVO tried discuss it with Seb, and even tried to have some video calls so they can find out what was going on and also suggested they send a new 38 instead as the 36 he was finally testing was at that point a legacy product.

Evidently, Seb never contacted them back and next DVO heard anything was when the fairly harsh review was posted.
  • 1 0
 @FrankS29: what he said.
  • 2 0
 @FrankS29: got it. Was kinda curious where DVO claimed this. Comments? But thanks for the info.
  • 3 0
 @birdsandtrees: DVO stated it in the comments section of that review. Last I checked, PB had not responded to their claim, which isn't great.
  • 1 0
 @TheRamma: got it. Thanks for filling me in.
  • 2 3
 Oh… so HBO isn’t the be all/end all that YouTube claims it to be? Weird.
  • 1 0
 No DH sizes is a bummer!
  • 1 0
 很棒的避震器!
  • 3 1
 I disagree
  • 2 0
 @j-p-i: 不如FOX和ROCKSHOX好是吧?
  • 5 6
 had me at $899.99 USD w/o spring or hardware
  • 2 2
 Im shocked….$1000 is way more than Im willing to pay, when a comparable goes for $550.
  • 3 0
 @Baller7756: Comparable, kinda, but not really, as there isn't anything else like this for shocks. ACS3 for forks from Push is the closest I can think of.

And maybe HBO is more than you need. Perhaps for your riding you like the coil feel with consistent damping and a progressive air ramp at the end, instead of a big punch of heavy damping at the end.

Maybe you already have an ACS3 in your fork and want to replicate the coil plus air-spring-bump-stop feel.
  • 2 3
 No Scraper seal at the air seal, I'm sure it'll be fine
  • 2 0
 im wrong, theres a bore scraper seal next to the quad ring. better than nothing but unlike a shafter seal the gunk will jam between the seal and the tube rather than be open to the air
  • 1 0
 @GumptionZA: probably for less stiction but at what cost
  • 3 6
 If you couldn't call it a grenade then... You can now.
#shrapnel
Below threshold threads are hidden







Copyright © 2000 - 2024. Pinkbike.com. All rights reserved.
dv42 0.066093
Mobile Version of Website