2023 Pinkbike Awards: Product of the Year Winner

 Certainly not great. I wish this industry could somehow focus less on churning out and pushing almost inconsequential changes and new products. That's capitalism for you. Unfortunately the sport caters to the new and hyped consumer and leaves most environmentalism and sustainability out of the question.

 I’m old enough to remember when cars with batteries were going to save the world.

 @The-Wheel: That’s doesn’t even make sense.

 The clever bit is putting electronics in the cassette so you’re forced into over priced replacements for ever. No third party options are going to work

 @TheR: The answer to saving the world? Big question. I think bicycles are definitely a part of it (though probably not ultra expensive boutique and complicated ones). Otherwise, I think we'd all be better served by having our communities use more local resources. People living a little closer together and having some nice rail infrastructure for linger trips. Do with less, that kind of thing. Of course, for most of the world which is less developed we probably need more political solutions in some areas. Anyway, big topic but the petroleum vs electric car debate is a misallocation of resources in my view.

 @TheR: I'll make sure to remember that petroleum powered cars are the answer! Either way, I'm glad that the PB comment section can discuss nuanced issues effectively.

 @TheR: I think you miscategorize me. I think industrialization has been great for many people when compared to the pre-19th century. I just think cars are bad because at this point they are. 40k deaths in the US per year electric or not. In the case of innovation, electric is certainly an improvement in efficiency over combustion. Since you generalized my specific point on cars to the entire industrial revolution, we also have much more innovative and efficient solutions than combustion in almost every sector at this point. But in the case of cars ESPECIALLY as a cyclist, we should be moving toward fewer of them, not more electric ones than we had internal combustion ones.

 @TheR: remind me, who is “You people”?

Village campfire singing kumbaya sounds pretty nice…

 @The-Wheel: maybe the sport caters to mountain bikers since all this stuff sells well and people like it. Maybe it just doesn't cater to anti capitalism wankers who see the need to fight every single thing that comes out so they can pretend they're making a difference. You would still be on 26" wheels with cantilever brakes and road geo if it wasn't for the capitalist bastards out there developing the sport.

 @The-Wheel: you need to look further back in the supply chain. As far as I know, in the US 70% of electricity is generated from burning fossil fuels. Not sure what share of that is coal, but coal is less energy dense than liquid fossil fuels. Meaning EVs are essentially a lateral move (possibly worse depending on individual location and the makeup of the local energy grid). Until there is some wholesale innovation to the grid (i.e. the bulk of electricity generated from something with better energy density than liquid fossil fuels), we’re just playing a shell game.

 @two2pedal: "Auto deaths [are] pointless." Fixed that for you.

 @The-Wheel:
What out, that was a direct shot at all the bro’s w/ their Tacomas at the trailhead!
Cars are coffins (remember that slogan?), e-bikes are just a fricking moped and earn your descents the right way - w/ pain and effort.
Now get off my lawn!

 @Hayek: Close. 60% and getting lower pretty much every year. EVs are NOT a lateral move. They are better for the air and the environment.
www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3
climate.mit.edu/ask-mit/are-electric-vehicles-definitely-better-climate-gas-powered-cars

 @jonemyers: But batteries!

 @jonemyers: www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E8SQde5rk

 @jonemyers: I'm sure that strip mining the planet for the elements to make EV batteries actually is better for the planet. Plus all of those batteries once they die.

 @topfuel564: are there still many social and environmental issues involved with creating batteries? Definitely. Is it worse than continuing at the current high rate of fossil fuel use? No.

 @Hayek: yes, the fuel mix in our electricity grids is still primarily fossil fuel. (Your local ISO will have a fuel mix that you can view online, very fun to look at!) However, even after conversions from production to rotation at your car's wheels, electric comes out ahead. Conservatively (benefit of the doubt to fossil car) it works out to: fossil fuel car ~35% efficient vs. 60% electricity production efficiency *90% transmission *90% conversion (charging) *90% to wheels = ~43% efficient for the electric car. Again, that's significantly in the combustion car's favor in a dirty grid.

 That is to say that making electricity from carbon intensive fuels in a large power plant is more efficient than in a car, even with modern technology. Most plants are co-gen, and get close to 60% thermal efficiency. That's significantly further boosted by the small percentage of other grid resources if you look at it from a carbon cost standpoint. Plus you get the benefit of having pollution centralized away from where people live, there's less pollution overall, and there are better and more enforced regulations about that pollution.

 @topfuel564: extra fun fact, MOST batteries are recycled. They are one of the most recycled products/materials on the planet. They have a lot of valuable components, so we are willing to pay to reuse them. Unlike plastic petroleum products which end up in the groundwater or the ocean

 Anyway , jeez I was just complaining about companies adding complexity for marginal gains. I think T-type is cool and transmission is a valuable change. The electric part is dumb because cables truly work so well in my experience, but I actually like this product winning. I just think our dependence on cars for our society is really dumb because they're very dangerous and come with a host of bad issues that make life worse.

 @The-Wheel: Ok, if batteries are one of the most recyclable products and materials on the planet, then why is everyone always up in arms about batteries for a derailleur or whatever? That was my whole point in my very first comment on this thread. Are batteries the scourge of the planet or the savior of all mankind? Which is it, because to me everyone allegedly concerned about the environmental impact of batteries is talking out of both sides of their mouths.

 @TheR: "Scourge or savior" is binary thinking. Good and bad exist on a spectrum.

 @The-Wheel: Holy s—-! Did you actually say cars have made life worse? Now I know you’re not living in reality.

 @TheR: nowadays? Yeah cars suck. Idk about you but I hate driving a half hour to get food. I much prefer Europe where you can just bike or walk 5 minutes to the store a few times a week rather than sit in traffic. Usually can ride to the trails there too instead of across a 6 lane highway

 @The-Wheel: Yeah, I don’t know about that. I don’t drive a half hour to get food. I drive about 3-5 minutes. I liked living in Europe, but I had to walk 5 minutes to get to a train, take the train for about 10 minutes, then walk 5-10 minutes to the grocery store, then back, then board an often crowded train loaded down with bags, and walk back to the apartment again with all my groceries. It’s like 50 minutes total in transportation time alone. And never mind that you’re on the train’s schedule, which you eventually learned to time pretty well, but you were at the mercy of the schedule. It was fine, I didn’t mind, and I liked living there, but it wasn’t nearly as convenient as you make it out to be. There wer at least as many trade offs as driving a car.

 @TheR: that sounds pretty good in both cases I'll admit. Why do you drive to the store now if it's 3-5 minutes away?

 @The-Wheel: Because It’s hard to walk back 3/4ths of a mile (or 1.5 miles, depending on which store I pick) loaded down with groceries for a family of five. Or it’s just more time efficient to order online, drive up, load it into the car and drive back. More time to ride, or whatever it is I need to do.

 @TheR: that's kinda wild to me ngl. Wish I lived that close to a major store. Where do you live so I can move there and ride my bike everywhere?

 @The-Wheel: The reason electric cars are pushed is because it is the easiest part of the transition and for the US, transportation makes up ~ 30% of carbon output. Most of the other parts of the transition are going to be much harder. And yes we have a societal system in the US designed around cars, which is going to be a very long and hard road to move away from. Politically is very hard to tell the average American that the way we use cars are the problem, easier to tell them to just increase efficiency.

Carbon output for electric cars is highly dependent to the region and the grid that supplies you. If people power their EVs with majority Coal (Wyoming), that is actually worse than a lot of petrol hybrids.

Link to a UCS EV efficiency map.

www.ucsusa.org/sites/default/files/styles/original/public/2022-09/driving-cleaner-figure-2a.png?itok=jhyVduQa

 @Comatosegi: thanks for adding! That’s a fun map. Totally agree, politically electric cars are probably one of the easier targets. It would just be neat to do some 2 bird 1 stone action with maybe getting some better benefits for transit and having a federal movement toward a different road use structure. There’s a lot of time and money given to cars and car infrastructure by the government when cars don’t benefit people equitably. Unfortunately as a country we do struggle with social issues though.

 @The-Wheel: christ, 40k ! Is this down to pollution and accidents ? I hope it's not just the latter

 @jjhobbs: yeah, I personally view death as a health issue. www.nhtsa.gov/press-releases/traffic-crash-death-estimates-2022

 Think you misunderstood my question. But 43k deaths from accidents is absolutely horrendous

 @jjhobbs: sorry I was unclear in answering. Yes, it is 40k+ deaths per only because of collisions

 @TheR: not really the battery part. It’s the continuous trend of adding unnecessary complexity in the name of advancement. I don’t want my MTB drivetrain to ever need a firmware update. I don’t want to have another dumbass app needed to setup said drivetrain or brakes etc. cables and hydraulic lines work just fine. They’re easy to service too! And btw… I’ve got a 29” inseam and short arms to go with the short legs so guess what? I’m riding an older Orange Alpine 160 with 26” wheels!

 @jonemyers: Educate yourself complete by reading all sides and everything about EV vehicles. This is a great video to give you a complete perspective of EV vehicle and ICE vehicles.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E8SQde5rk

 @jghabert92: boooo lame and old source. Educate yourself with updated information easily available: www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=427&t=3
More renewable are in the US fuel mix than coal at this point. EVs are much cleaner than ICE cars.

 Linkglide has been around for a good few years so if it should have won, it should have won back then.

 TransMEHsion.

 Some people are not concerned with cost. I think this a hella cool innovation. There are a lot of forward thinking design inclusions; UDH, T type ramps, wireless, etc. In the truck world, this is the 204 Rivian or Cybertruck and Linkglide would be my 09 4cyl 5spd Tacoma 4x4. Both work great, but one is more refined and aiming at a totally different crowd.

 @wburnes: Bro, have you even stood on one yet? Its great, trust me bro.

 Agreed! I won't buy SRAM no matter how good they might get because replacement parts are more than an entire Shimano drive train! That's just weak sauce.

 It’s product of the year, not value of the year.

 The most pathetic part of this award is the pretend assumption from Pinkbike that everybody wants electric shifting. This is how you stick your nose way up SRAM's booty hole:

"SRAM’s GX gives you exactly what you want in the new-fangled Transmission (T-type) drivetrain: electronic shifting"

Go to hell.

 Let's jump on that hype train!!!

 So many people that don't need a Transmission mad that it exists. Don't like it? Don't buy it. Get Shimano XT for 1/10th the price and be happy. I don't get the anger at things you don't like or want. Reading these comments makes me think there's a lot of really angry and depressed people in this sport.

 Pushing overpriced, overweight, over complicated, unnecessarily electrical grid dependent gear is what the PB business model calls for. Put a cable on the damn thing and I'd like it. But as it is; I don't. This choice is telling. eBikes, eDrivetrains, eWhatever; enjoy it, I'll stay with my human dynamics powered XO1, XTR, or Linkglide; Thank you, and have a nice day with your eShifter, MoPed, or whatever. Some of us prefer generating more power ourselves, and less profit for these big corporations and power companies.

 It’s just being pushed to mainstream electronic shifting on the higher end. Road bikes went electronic about 3-5 years ago. E-Tap, then Di2, AXS, (Campy too) now transmission. Shimano went all electric on their higher end road groups, the only road option for Shimano without semi-wireless is 105. SRAM did that even further back. Road bike technology is gonna drive the bus and the MTB world, Roadies all go electronic, the Big Ss don’t want to continue to develop two fully independent solutions for the same problem, eventually all the drivetrains above the lower mid-range will be electronic. If you want mech shifting you’ll be GX or SLX limited for 12sp, 11sp CUES XT will hangout for a while but eventually will fade. Soon mtbs will be like road bikes and not even have the ability to add mech shifting, it’ll start on the high end XC race whippets, and in five years you’re mid-level trail bikes will no longer have cable bosses.

 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: if it gets to the point where Shimano drop XT Cues (which I don't think they will) then I'm all-in on singlespeed.

 @dfiler: @dfiler: It does not time shifting. There is no sensor for it. It shifts like every other derailleur, it shifts up and then shifting ramps on cassette pushes the chain up (or down?). This thing is nothing revolutionary, except for direct mount and even that is debatable. Add to the fact that it costs fortune and weights more than budget drivetrains from comeptition I simply dont see value in it. Same with linkglide, pricier and heavier than 11spd drivetrains of the past. With change in pull ratios I seriously hope they do not discard the good old 11 speed xt derailleurs, because if that happens then I nominate linkglide for the worst product of the year

 @vinay: so has axs. It’s just in true sram style the product testing is done by customers hence v2 already

 @chrismac70: Alright, the transmission stuff is being appreciated for different reasons. If it is for the wireless control then sure, it is the second generation. The bit that I think is interesting is the cassette design and how it times shifts such that you can always apply full torque. I thought LinkGlide was interesting ever since they came with it and the only thing I noticed they introduced this year is the twelve speed version thereof but if they made other improvements making it even more durable then props indeed. It really depends on what one is after I suppose. Low running costs are important for me but I can imagine for a top XC racer it might be amazing to be able to shift whilst being able to transfer full torque. Not sure whether it has actually paid off in top level XC competition but that's where I can see it make sense.

 Perhaps you should check out the winner of the Value Product of the Year.

 @fartymarty: lol. But have you tried one?

 @TheLongMan: yeah, I have singlespeeded on and off since I got my Krampus backing 2014.

 I haven’t ridden Transmission and don’t know if it’s any good or not, but the UDH it’s attached to is freaking fantastic and a change that should have been made 10 years ago. I know it came out a few years ago now, but UDH by itself is worthy of product of the year.

 complete marketing SCAM and Pinkbike fell for it. Incompatible with any other SCAM product. Cassette's are rigged so you can't use any other brand. Chain proprietary (can't interchange with flat top road or with Eagle). Chainrings no longer 3 bolt so you can't use your existing SCAM or other rings. What a complete hoax of a product. Apart from Headset Cable Tourism this is the second worst idea / product of 2023

 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anchoring_effect

 Here's the science^^ "At 30% less than the X0 series..."

 Totally agree with you.

 My favorite is the folks who proudly yell "This didn't innovate anything, this innovation award should have gone to the company who designed _____ product 10 years ago!"

 @dkidd: it's product of the year, not innovation of the year.

But even if it was innovation of the year, there were much more deserving products than this

 @wburnes: I have a Park Tool Allen key set from 10 years ago that I absolutely love. Best multitool I own. Do I expect it to win product of the year, just because I really like it?

(Well, this is Pinkbike, so I probably should.)

 @TheR: What does it actually do better than a shimano link glide or even a microshift advent?

Having to charge yet another thing is rather annoying

 @wburnes: What does it actually do better than a shimano link glide or even a microshift advent?

Shift.

 @TheR: I can afford it tho

 Having ridden transmission (and the new sram drivetrain with all the autoshift functionality) my main takeaway is that the fact it takes +/- 3 f*cking hours to shift from one end of the cassette to the other makes it a hard no from me. Transmission is a backwards step in performance, hidden behind a load of pointless "features" that don't actually make your bike any faster.

 @TheR: it's $1,100 its extremely overpriced but not unattainable

 @wburnes: “Extremely overpriced” is a completely subjective charge.

 @TheR: Who pissed in your eggnog, bro? Damn. Sorry. Forgot you've got 5 kids.

 @mtb2112: I don’t have five kids. I’m just messing around with you fools.

 Well said!

 A couple downvotes, but zero evidence we are any closer to gearboxes than we were 12 years ago when I joined this site and people were shouting “gearboxes!” back then. We are no closer to it happening than in 2012. In that time, there’s been 2x10 speed, 1x10, 1x11, 1x12, AXS, Transmission, linktlide, hyperglide, etc. — steady innovation. In the meantime, gearboxes still heavy, impractical, and available from like two manufacturers. But keep the faith… we are just around the corner from a big breakthrough and making this thing happen!

 @TheR: How are gearboxes impractical? There are more than two gearbox manufacturers.

Relative to the GX transmission, gearboxes aren't heavy. Pinion is 2350 grams and GX is 2010 grams (of course a lot of that weight is in the derailleur making your suspension perform worse)

 @wburnes: They’re impractical in that you can’t just buy a gearbox and stick it on your bike. You have to have a frame made for it, which about two manufacturers make. (I’m using hyperbole here — it might be 4). And as for the rest of manufacturers, it’s impractical for them to make these frames for a wide range of consumers. Much easier and less expensive for them to buy a range of drivetrains from SRAM and hang them on their frames.

The weight — the mechanism itself is almost a pound heavier. And how much does the unique frame construction add to the weight? And even if it’s better on your suspension, you have the added drag of the drive belt instead of a chain. And you need a grip shifter, which no one really likes. And so on.

I could be wrong, and everything in the next year will run on a gearbox, but the gains are just not worth the pains in the industry right now, so I wouldn’t count on it.

 @TheR: you don't need a grip shifter anymore. Both pinion and effigear have trigger shifter options (effigear actually works with a sram shifter).

I doubt its significantly heavier or more expensive to manufacture a gearbox frame over a regular frame.

As for the drag I dont think belts contribute much if any (and you can use a normal chain with the gearbox anyway). The gearbox mechanism itself does have a small amount of drag, but other than XC racing I dont think it matters.

 @wburnes: that all may be — fact remains I don’t see any evidence that we are any closer to gear box being the norm than we were 10-12 years ago.

 Well said. Shame on you pinkbike

 Unfortunately, you just know SRAM is going to phase out all things mechanical, so eventually we’ll all have to buy it. Hell, look at the 2024 builds already- want a nice build? It comes with Transmission.

 @stevemokan: no you won’t. Buy shimano and have stuff that works instead

 All the NPCs: SRAM paid for this award! All marketing hype! Pinkbike in the pockets of the big boys! @mikekazimer a member of the Industry Illuminati!

 @chrismac70: true. Mechanical X01 works just fine too, maybe I’ll just stock up on spares.

 @stevemokan: I agree with you. My XO1 and XTR works great, is lighter, and doesn't need to suck off the power grid. Ten year old XTR is better quality, lighter, and stronger value than most of this over hyped modern Neuvo Kit is. Stock up on quality analog drivetrain parts, 'cus planned obsolescence, grid dependence/control and lower value/higher profit is getting out of hand. There is, accordingly, a strong case to be made for the value and utility of Shimano XT. The gullible "it's new, and the marketing campaign said it's better, so it must BE better" dupes can have all this latest round of electro-poop.

 Blarrgh

 Beurk !

 hnnngggg

 Derp.

 Fawk

 bleh

 Booooo!

 KerPlunk

 But you can stand on it! Don’t you want to stand on it?.

 Insert playing card in spokes (clipped with clothespin) to seat stay to mimic dirtbike.

 Can't tell if that's a sleeping cat or thumbs down emoticon.

 @woofer2609: “yo, cat, don’t sleep on this”

 Lmao GX costs $1,100 and weighs over 2 kg

 Regurgitated marketing

 Because sram can’t make shifting work properly there is a transponder on the cassette that tells the mech when it can shift hence why it shift if so long after you puts the button. It also means you have to buy replacement sram cassettes as it won’t without the transponder

 Cable shifting for life. F.... the marketing

 How much did you pay for that roll of tinfoil you made your hat out of?

 @dualsuspensiondave: not enough

 Shimano made a direct mount rear derailleur first. Cable-actuated. And almost nobody used it. It basically just uses an extra long hanger. It's what you get when you remove that extra link from a Shadow derailleur (the part that screws into a normal hanger).

 @barp: I'm using it still, because I like Shimano 11speed. It's good, but the requirement for a special hanger meant it was basically dead on arrival. SRAM was very clever to see that problem and preemptively solve it with UDH.

 @AndrewHornor: Yeah, I have a direct mount hanger on my gravel bike and I agree it works great. But, isn't UDH just another "special hanger", only introduced as a trojan horse?

 @barp: yes because the frame has to fit it, but no because you can use any derailleur with it. All these frames designed around Transmission can use any derailleur if you just add a UDH (if I understand correctly).

 @barp: Righto, I presume yours (even as direct mount) could still bend like a normal hanger? I know there have been patents for Shimano “double shear” (don’t know what else to call it) direct mount hanger/derailleur like Transmission. That’s what I’m after.

 @iduckett: Yep, and it gets straightened with a regular hanger tool, too. Shimano didn't make this hanger, though--Wheels Manufacturing did.

 I've heard it is actually a bit slow to shift because the cpu has to wait for the ramps to line up. But if pleebs can now shift under load, they can finally ride uphill without the skill of looking ahead and soft pedaling while shifting!

 Came to ask the same thing. Is there a magnet in the cassette and a sensor in the derailleur like an old school bike computer?

 Mine shifts fairly quick. If there is a slight delay, I don't care, because it's designed to shift under load. Not sure how the system 'knows' where it is on the cassette. Multiple gear shift is programmable also... I have the 2 gear at once programed... shifts 2 gears at once flawlessly.

 @Chonky13: gave it a whirl last week and shifting under load was worse than my xt drive trail with thousands of kms on it. All filler, no killer.

 @kingtut87: A trunk monkey must have then, set it up.

 @AppleJack76: the other shifts were fine, not super fast, but fine. If it was badly setup I'd expect every shift to feel crap. I'm firmly of the opinion that it's just massively over hyped.

 @chrismac70: the fact that you think there's a transponder in a cassette suggests you don't know as much about how it works as you're pretending to.

I'm happy to say I don't know everything about how this derailleur works either, but I do know one thing, you wouldn't need to put a transponder in the cassette.

 What’s influential about v2 of 3 year old technology that still doesn’t work as well as shimano mechanical shifting

 @chrismac70: it's influencing bike sales because people are going out of the way to make sure their next bike is compatible. It has brands updating swingarms mid product cycle. (Did that even happen with disc brake adoption? I'm just old enough to remember there were some bikes with a front disc only.)

 You think it’s that bad huh?

 @Bikesbecauserunningsucks: Yes. I'd sell it, and find a lighter analog drivetrain from '22 or '23 on super clearance.

 Agreed. I can’t afford it but I’m looking forward to prices coming down in the future. I have a GX AXS drivetrain now and love it.

 Considering that Transmission is just a marketing gimmick that doesn't do anything other than add weight, ruin the environment, and make luddites cry, what's the harm in waiting until it's on sale?

 But the AXS prices didn’t come down until Transmission was launched… and I’m willing to bet these Transmission prices down come down for a long time. Why would they?

 You don’t need WiFi for the derailleur - you should be able to set the whole thing up without needing a phone at all.

 Just watched the entire setup video, you do not need a phone or wifi. Optional.

 @mikekazimer: you don’t need it to install or adjust, correct, but you’ll need it for the monthly firmware update.

 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: you are aware that your derailleur won’t just stop working if the firmware is outdated so long as everything is running that same version.

 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: monthly update... For a derailleur, what a time to be alive. Wait till you can use the app because you have the wrong ios or android version. Or Sram drops support for the first generation while releasing a new one.

 @Austink: yeah I know. Who cares. It’s still dumb.

 Man, I love when people who have zero idea weigh in.

I haven't updated anything AXS I own. I got one of the first GX AXS drivetrains that came into Canada. It hasn't bricked itself. Find something better to do with your time, lying on the internet just seems like such an odd thing do to. You know the point are made up, right?

"Who cares about being factual, I think it's dumb and won't let good info stop a circlejerk."

 @sherbet: yeah working at a bike shop for the last 30 years makes me a bit of a lay person.

You should heed your own advice.

 @BikesBoatsNJeeps: Okay, to clarify;

You've spent 30 years in shops, you're aware you're lying about how this group operates, and that shouldn't matter because in your personal opinion, it's a dumb product.

Jesus christ I'm glad you're not a local shop.

 @sherbet: took the words out of my mouth. Having had gx, x01, xx1 axs and xo transmission, this firmware fear is totally unwarranted.

30 years of shop experience doesn’t buy credibility when one spews such incorrect information so willingly.

 Sarcasm?

 Much less than half of that price... and good enough let's say.

 its 1/3 of the price, lighter, more durable and shifts at least as good.

but: for moped hipsters facts dont matter.

 That's "cue". Or in this case, perhaps "[Shimano] Cues".

 That's on the way.

 You should try riding one.

Folks complained about derailleurs being too easy to damage, so SRAM made one that can withstand 1300lbs of force, mounts off the axle and armors the bike frame.
Folks complained that expensive derailleurs couldn't be rebuilt, and SRAM made one that you could get replacement parts for easily and cheaply, and rebuild with an Allen key.
Folks complained that their derailleurs weren't set up right and shifted poorly, so they designed a derailleur that didn't need b-tension or limit screws.
Folks complained that their shifts were clunky and chains wear out too fast on eBikes, and SRAM designed a system that can be shifted crisply under any power.
Folks complained that this brand new top-end technology was too expensive, so SRAM dropped the price 30%.

So if you have time to write an essay in the Pinkbike comments, you probably owe it to yourself to try one.

 @dkidd: well said

 the Frame? maybe in a crash that is soo massive in which the bike becomes the least of the worries.

it might brake the rear components of the frame, but main parts are still in good condition

 @dkidd: yeah i had it and chain broke of on the 3rd 1 Hr ride.

I dont know Bud, ill continue testing for sure. Hope this doesnt keep happening

 @Ignaciosc22: you mentioned above that it's been making weird noises from day one. Probably a good idea to get the setup checked. If it makes weird noises and breaks chains, it might not be set up properly.

 @dkidd: Alot of BS to unpack here....I can see SRAM solving a few self induced problems with this.


Point 1 and 2 Folks complain Derailleurs are easy to damage and tough to rebuild.
Derailleurs are pretty easy to damage. It's a big complaint. especially when your new electric derailleur costs 500 dollars. Now you can buy a new cage for $175 dollars. Not cheaply.... its more than the price of a high end derailleur from a competitor What I assume is the fuse point (upper link) was not available in their spare parts catalog. Sram solved nothing here but the problems they made by coming up a with 500 derailieur

Point 3. b tension and limit screw complexity is not a problem "folks are complaining about" Department store bikes assembled by stoned teenagers may require some solution here. but these are the simplest adjustments in the world. Set once and forget. unless something gets loose broken or bent. Replicable hangars by design are really easy to bend. at which point an electric system will crap itself....hence another self inflicted need for "transmission" bend your hangar the whole system is F'd making your own problem and correcting it is not "innovation"

Point 4: SRAM shifting is clunky under load. Yes I have this complaint. Shimano HG+ solved this years ago and cues and link glide solved this at a low price point.

Point 4b) Chains and subsequently cassettes wear out too fast.....HERE IS THE PROBLEM FOLKS WANT FIXED!...The crux of this problem is high torque, dirt and a very small amount of lubricant results in significant chain wear. it's not a clunky shift that makes your chain stretch. its the grinding action of an excess of dirt on your chain pins, stretching the chain resulting in premature wear of your rings and cassette. Furthermore ebikes can bend teeth on clunky shifts. Sram made an ultra expensive drivetrain that likely solves bent teeth but not the chain wear. Shimano came to the table with linkglide a steel thicker smooth shifting system that's low cost and will improve cassette wear.
Pinion threw away the whole mess and gave us a real transmission, integrating it with a motor that gives you USEFUL FUN (instead of crisper shits) and solved a number of gearbox and e-bike problems in one fell swoop.
This is innovation.

Point 5: SRAM stuff is still way to expensive. This is not solved. link glide solved this.

So linkglide was a bettter solution to things "Folks complained about"

While Love or hate ebikes Pinions MGU is the damn future of ebikes and far more deserving of an innovation award.

 @dkidd: I rode it on a brand new stumpy the other week and it shifted worse than my Xt drive train while putting the power down. I'd not be impressed if it cost the same as XT. At the price it's listed at, it's a hard no.

 Well considering none of the derailleur mounts on the frame itself and only uses the axle as a mounting point you're not going to damage your frame. If you're gunna get this bent out of shape(like your derailleur hanger ayyyyy) you should probably look into the specifics of the product a bit more.

 I concur. I got 25% off. IYKYK.

 @AppleJack76: I got the same deal. Win for us!

 If you have to "adjust" your derailleur that often something is very wrong. I set up my XT and haven't touch a barrel adjuster yet in two years (4500 miles)

 ive used it. On multiple bikes. It sucks

 It is REALLY REALLY good.

 I guess I'm the other part of the Venn diagram that owns it and still doesn't think it's that revolutionary. It's just 'fine'. Certainly not the first part of my bike I'd be spending $1600CAD given the choice.

 @notthatfast: agreed, and funnily enough your username encapsulates my views on sram transmission perfectly. It works fine, but its just notthatfast. If I arrive at the bottom of a descent in top gear, it takes far too long (in both time taken and wheel revolutions required) to shift all the way to the other end of the cassette. I've even measured it on a bored lunchbreak. It took about 15 bike lengths to make its way across the full range of the cassette. Cable actuated mechs can shift the full width of the cassette in less than two bike lengths. And they do it pretty smoothly too. That difference in performance is just too big to overlook for me. Sure I don't shift across the full cassette all that often, but I do regularly want to drop 3-4 gears at once all of a sudden. Multiple times per ride. Transmission is irritatingly slow in these situations. They'll need to rectify that before I'd consider it a upgrade over cables.

 @gabiusmaximus:
My main gripe is that there's zero tactile feedback on the remote, so on a technical descent, I just find myself button mashing and hoping I hit the correct one.