Berd Release 1400 Gram Enduro Ready String-Spoke Wheelset

Nov 22, 2022
by Henry Quinney  
photo

You may well remember Berd's very different take on the mountain bike wheel, that we reviewed in 2020. The XC33 wheels had an impressive weight and offered a compliant ride. No surprise, really, considering the spokes were made of what appeared to be string.

Now, before you think it, using a flexible, string-like material is not about the ease of sourcing replacement spokes or letting your kitchen scissors do the talking in your wheel builds, but rather it comes down to compliance and weight. In fact, Berd claim that using ultra-high molecular weight polyethylene spokes means that they can make them lighter, more comfortable and more durable. It's also worth noting that despite the space-age looks, the hub and rim are compatible with normal spokes.
Berd Hawk30 Details

• Intended use: trail / enduro
• Carbon rims, 28 polyethylene spokes
• Industry Nine Hydra hubs
• Internal rim width: 30mm
• Claimed weight: 1394 grams
• Made in North America
• Price: $2,195 USD
• berdspokes.com


photo
Following their XC wheels, Berd added a burlier Hawk27 model and now releases an even wider rim with impressive weight claims. The Hawk30 wheels have a 30 mm internal rim width and, much like its predecessor, is built in conjunction with We Are One Composites. Berd is keen to stress, however, that these are Berd rims designed by them and using their own molds, and not just a rebadge of another brand's model. The rims also use a 3.75mm rim lip to hopefully prevent both pinch flats and rim damage.

The rims are 18mm deep, which certainly makes them one of the shallower options available. A shallower rim will let the wheel compress more and, when coupled with the unique spoke design, could potentially yield gains in terms of comfort and grip. Even if it comes at the cost of stiffness for some riders.

Berd offers a lifetime crash replacement service and says that if the rim does need to be replaced, it will be free of charge. The rim itself has a claimed weight of just 393 grams. The rims have a recommended tire width of 2.4 to 2.7" and will be available in Boost and Superboost, although only in 29". They're Centerlock only.

photo
photo
Berd provided some data for their claims, although without knowing the model of the competitor's rims it's not as useful as it could be.

When the wheelset is built with Industry Nine Hydra hubs, they have a claimed weight of 1,394 grams. For a wheelset that can supposedly handle the rigours of enduro riding, that's quite remarkable considering Berd say the rims are light enough for XC racing as well as rougher enduro runs.

photo
Paint-pens are available to change your white spokes to any color you like.

The wheels, which are entirely made in North America, have a retail of $2,195 USD and are available now in limited quantity. Berd say they will ship the remaining orders in 4 - 6 weeks.



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203 Comments
  • 125 1
 I can use my leftover twine from trussing my turkey to fix my wheels! Thanks Berd!
  • 35 3
 great idea about the turkey twine. I've been using old shifter cables my friends give me when they go electronic...
  • 17 2
 I was thinking more like mint flavored dental floss but twine works!
  • 13 2
 @lawnmowerepairman: if your username didn't indicate otherwise, I would guess your favorite color is Turq blue, and you never work on Fridays.
  • 12 0
 You mean "Thanks Bird"
  • 2 0
 only 2.2k pffft
  • 2 0
 @jcc0042: kawasaki green and i was to expensive for fridays work!
  • 94 7
 You can pretty easily build a 1700-1800g enduro wheelset using a high quality alloy rim from Stans or DT Swiss and built it up for £450-500 or whatever - so most £2000 carbon wheelsets that barely weigh any less are a tough sell.

1394g though. That is impressive and that is a performance benefit.
  • 23 0
 Agreed - shaving nearly a pound of rotational mass from the wheel set is going to make a noticeable difference. Gotta love the all-out rim replacement policy as well.
  • 19 1
 1400 grams, that's competitive with half decent XC wheels. Get some 700 grams fast rolling tires on these and have an ultimate trail riding experience and then throw the 1300 gram tires on for the heavy hitting days
  • 42 40
 Not for me. I live in a rocky area and am 185lb and go fast, so aluminum rims from Stans or DT would only last a maximum of 6 months for me (sometimes dying catastrophically but usually just dying a slow death over time from lots of moderate impacts until they're unrecoverably out of true). Carbon rims handle those medium (non catastrophic) impacts much better than aluminum.

My WAO carbon wheelset is as true as they were out of the box after a year of lots of hard riding. Saving $120 in rims every six months (and build time/cost and usually nipples/spoke purchase too) makes up for the added cost of lifetime-warranty-carbon pretty quickly.
  • 63 8
 @rickybobby18: air your tires , and true your wheels BEFORE they are unfixable
  • 8 10
 These look sweet but the weight is odd to me. Most companies are using carbon rims in the upper 400 gram range for trail/all mountain/enduro hoops, especially if they come with a decent warranty. Sub 400g is usually xc territory and can even have a weight limit that's more reminiscent of an anorexic roadie. I think they're going to get a lot of broken rims back unless they're the 1 company that has learned to engineer a rim that's 100g lighter than their carbon rivals that's just as strong. They look great for xc though!
  • 21 0
 Couldn’t care less about the small weight difference, but the benefit that carbon fiber wheels stay straight for longer is quite nice.
  • 14 2
 @rickybobby18:

There is a lot of truth in this, even if the numbers you're saying might not be what everyone else is seeing for AL rims lifespan.

But the current truth seems to be that for enduro type riding, Carbon rims aren't usually going to save you much/any weight over an aluminum set. But the carbon ones will likely have less maintenance.

Of course, the failure modes are different. If a carbon rim goes, its usually catastrophic. But from what I've seen so far, it seems that the forces needed to break a good carbon rim seems to be higher than the forces it would take to fairly significantly damage a good AL rim.

Its only an anecdote. I'm ~190lbs, and like to go my version of fast. My old AL rims accumulated dents, and even when keeping an eye on spoke tension regularly, they only lasted 2 years. I got a set of WAO Unions, and have been on them for almost 2 years now. They are still dead straight.
  • 8 0
 @WasatchEnduro: Maybe the thick 3.75mm rim lip adds to the strength and they can take weight from other areas. That thick lip on the area that most encounters strikes can make for a really strong wheel, the rim bed can be less substantial since it's not handling any compression loads, only tension, where carbon earns it's keep in the strength department.
  • 4 0
 @rickybobby18: Agreed, carbon is lower maintenance and while they can crack, Al combined with inserts has greater potential to fail catastrophically via folding-in/collapsing. I think inserts can change where force is applied to the rim, from the bead to the center channel. They weren't designed for this kind of loading and I've seen failures where it looks like there wasn't even an impact. I lost a rim this way, luckily it didn't fully collapse but I've seen it happen several times and a friend was injured by it. My rim had a flat-spot and I couldn't even tell where it happened, no visual damage, should take a massive bottom-out for something like this to happen!
  • 2 0
 @ocnlogan: Similar story here. I9 Enduro S Hydra AL's, about 190 lbs without gear. Managed to mangle the rear rim in the first season (granted, it was a $50 replacement), but for the last 2 years the set is running strong.

I prefer lower tire pressures (~24-27 PSI), but I also run dual cushcore. Not going to set any uphill records - but the wheels feel bulletproof.
  • 3 0
 @WasatchEnduro: Wondering if the extra compliance they claim allows for a lighter rim? I changed coil shocks to one with hydraulic bottom out and rear rim dents have gone way down on hard landings into rocks (running proper pressure and an insert).
  • 1 3
 @vtracer: you dentists get 2 pairs:p and save 1 bike...
  • 3 10
flag OnTheRivet (Nov 22, 2022 at 13:02) (Below Threshold)
 @WasatchEnduro: yep this. Can't get around the physics of weight. There is no magical light and strong carbon being used here. Stronger means more carbon/resin. These will fail a quicker rate than a heavier carbon rim of similar dimensions.
  • 4 0
 @davec113: I think that's part of why Tannus designed their Tubeless Armour inserts teh way they did. The insert is relatively thin and is up against the tire vs in the rim bed. Then wraps down around the edge of the rim. Works really well... maybe not quite the same level of support as CushCore, but it's close and no (or very little) additional internal pressure against the inside of the rim.
  • 13 2
 @OnTheRivet: There is a magical thing called engineering where through technical excellence it's possible to optimise the layup, orientation and shape factor of a carbon-fibre product. Some manufacturers can also use a higher grade of materials, better manufacturing processes and more rigorous QC to reduce the likelihood of voids and defects. So theoretically a rim could be lighter and still stronger. I'm not saying this rim is magic, I'm just saying hypothetically nerds can be quite magical.
  • 14 1
 @IsaacMagers: I run 32psi in my rear and keep my spoke tension even on alu wheels that were built professionally by a good local wheel builder *shrug*. Alu rims just can't take repeated abuse like carbon can. They both will fail catastrophically with a big enough impact, but below a certain force threshhold, alu gets hurt but carbon doesn't and your alloy rim dies a death by 1000 papercuts. Even if you're not pinging your rims on rocks.
  • 3 0
 @ocnlogan: precisely
  • 4 0
 @islandforlife: Yeah, I switched to Tannus not long after they came out. Half the weight vs CC Pro, works almost as well. You can't ride on Tannus w no air pressure like you can with CC, but I'll just stop and fix it.
  • 4 1
 Which enduro rim and hub combo from Dt is 17-1800 grams? EX511s on almost any hubs are gonna be over 1900g unless you’re absolutely balling out on spokes
  • 2 4
 @tom666: Carbon fiber technology for wheels is at its apogee with available materials. Look across the other manufacturers and all the rims with similar dimensions are of similar weight. We Are One make nice stuff but its no better than the other big players in this arena. Looking at these rims they achieve low weight by having a very low profile (less material). This may make these more compliant radially but will certainly give up lateral stiffness which can be a deal breaker for people who ride hard. I personally sold a pair of low profile carbon wheels for just this reason. Again physics.
  • 1 0
 @IsaacMagers: no need….cushcore!
  • 1 0
 I did that for 6 years, and killed an average of one alu rim per season. And spent a LOT of time on maintenance. It is a good and sound strategy to run alu rims, but if you're heavy enough and/or ride hard enough you just fatigue them eventually. Switched to carbon for the durability and maintenance time savings. It's never been a weight savings thing to switch to carbon for hard trail riding.
  • 2 0
 @davec113: I killed a stans flow mk4 alloy rim with a Cushcore insert this way and it changed my opinion on inserts. My rim was buckled from what looked like a hit to the center of the channel, which only could have been the insert hitting it. The warranty guy at Stan's said its fairly common failure mode with inserts,
but still gave me a crash replacement. On carbon rims where the strength is focused on the sidewalls and the channel can be ultra thin, the problem is even worse.
  • 1 3
 high quality dtswiss, haha
  • 1 0
 @mtb-thetown: Hmm, yeah I can see this could be an issue with carbon too, but I haven't seen it yet. OTOH, I've seen this issue with Al several times, and even seen rim failures on video that I think were caused by Cushcore. I'm really surprised there isn't more info or testing out there on this, would've though at least the Germans would do the testing by now, but it seems like nobody is worried about this potentially very dangerous issue. My friend who was injured got a concussion and it had a major effect on his livelihood as a pro. Personally, I'll never use CC or similar inserts that sit on the center channel ever again, but I think Tannus' design is likely ok.
  • 1 0
 @davec113: the tanus design makes sense for rim protection, but then you lose the tire support from Cushcore. I don't know of ots worth the weight penalty then. I actually broke my collarbone in the same crash that killed my rim, but I don't blame that on the insert.
  • 1 0
 @rickybobby18: the only time ive EVER broken a rim on my 5 year old roval control rims was when I did a drop onto a metal spike and cracked it.
  • 1 0
 @Kebabroll: attaboy
  • 1 1
 @WasatchEnduro: high end carbon XC rims have gone down in weight over the last five or so years. Most are in the low 300s or even upper 200 gram range, while keeping a 27-30mm inner width. So adding 100g to an XC rim for Enduro-bility seems about right.
  • 2 0
 @mtb-thetown: IMO the rim protection is worth the 1/4 lb extra on the rear, but I do tend to hit a rock too hard or case a jump occasionally. I think it still takes a lot of force to buckle or cave-in an Al rim with an insert that sits in the center channel, and you have to apply that force in a certain way, or we'd see this more frequently. I think it takes an impact where the force is very evenly distributed to cause this buckling, but unfortunately that describes landing a jump and that is indeed what's caused a few incidents I've seen. In my case the trail had a ton of wide square-edge rocks that could do it. But my main issue with this is I didn't hit the rock very hard, there's no visible damage to anything, yet I nearly caved-in an EX511. I've used these rims a lot and the force required to do this should have caused a hard bottom-out. The Stans guy said he sees this type of failure frequently, I'd like to know exactly what that means. It inserts reduce the force needed to buckle a rim, then that's an important piece of info that people should be aware of...
  • 1 0
 @davec113: FWIW, the stans rep seemed to have the impression that if it broke with cushcore, it probably would have also broken without it, but I'd really like to see some data and experiments on this. It seems like this is a key factor in whether inserts are worth it.
  • 2 0
 @rickybobby18: You forgot the "not riding time" part of all breakages even those covered by warranty.
Not everybody (I don't understand why but I heard it is 'a thing') has more than one bike so that they have one to ride ride whilst the other one's parts are getting fixed/ replaced.
  • 1 0
 @KJP1230: No doubt about it. Though I find my tire selection seems to have the greatest effect on how my wheels feel speed wise. And while that weight savings is nice climbing... overall ride feel (as subjective as that is) is what makes or breaks any wheelset for me.
  • 2 0
 @ocnlogan: I had a 1300gm Carbon XC wheelset on a hardtail that I beat the crap out of at 190 lbs. My 210 lbs buddy bought the bike from me and proceeded to slam the rear wheel into a curb at full speed and crack it...he kept riding that cracked carbon rear wheel for @ 3 months before selling the bike to someone. Really changed my opinion about the "catastrophic failures" people worry about.
  • 1 0
 @SprSonik: Yoann Barelli rode a cracked WAO for months as well and he's not heavy but he's not slow.
  • 24 1
 I'm not buying anything from them until they release a wheelset called G-String.
  • 4 0
 Cove Bikes has entered the chat.
  • 26 3
 B- B- B- Berd berd berd. Berd is the word. Everyone is talking about the Berd
  • 18 2
 I've been riding BERD spokes on a set of Atomik Carbon hoops for a bit over a year. They are very, very durable. I'm a 220 pound rider that rides like a ham-fisted gorilla. I've broken several spokes riding here in Vegas in the 2 years before my BERD spokes. Besides the decreased wheelset weight, they don't provide an amazing feel difference from normal spokes, but is noticeable. It feels like the sharp corners of rocks have been sanded down a bit. They've come only very slightly out of true over the past 15 months. Beware: you need a bike shop willing to order the tools to true them (like $40 or something from BERD's website). Las Vegas Cyclery (a big bike shop here) just turned me away from truing them. I guess that's what you get with any non-traditional bike parts.
  • 4 0
 I have had alot of bad experiences with LVC. Same with pro cyclery Bike brain takes good care of me if you live on that side of summerlin.
  • 5 0
 @spinzillathespacelizard: Same. I'm done with LVC. Recently took in a new stumpjumper frame to have Hayes rear brake installed. They kept my bike for a week, couldn't route it through the frame, and charged me $60. Pro cyclery got it done and only kept my bike 2 days.


I'll check out Bike brain! thanks!!!
  • 4 0
 Agreed. I have a full season on my set. I used to spontaneously break 1-4 spokes a year and these have been perfect. Even sliced one of the spokes into a dead stump and had to wrench and twist the whole bike off of it and the spoke was fine. Experience tells me a metal spoke would have definitely bent and had a stress point in it if not breaking entirely. And they ride nice, little bit more quiet and muted. If you can pay the bill they are very nice.

I built an enduro wheel set of 450g BTLOS rims, Dt Swiss 350 hubs, 32 berd spokes for about $1500 pre covid prices Smile
They weigh 1600 with strips and valves and I trust them completely for hard riding.
  • 2 0
 $40 dollars ain't bad for special tool(s)!!
  • 3 0
 I wouldn’t waste any more time at LVC. Those guys don’t even ride. Go talk to JP at All Mountain Cyclery in Boulder City. Best wheelbuilder in the Southwest US. Probably more experience with Berd spokes than anyone in the area.
  • 15 0
 I raced Breck Epic this year on their T27's and my other two teammates had the HAWK27's...ZERO issues. I've had rocks hit my spokes, I've smacked rim to rock numerous times, zero issues. They're dope AF. Believe the hype.
  • 2 0
 Hey you forgot that part about your teammate that raced a very similar Rolf Alsea 30 wheelset at Breck, weighing under 1500g but still MORE than the Berds, and promptly cracked a rim the very first day.

Berds are the real deal.

Oh and Rolf can't just get you a new rim. You basically buy the whole new wheel! Don't buy Rolfs used, or maybe at all?
  • 1 0
 @johnjaundice: Sounds like nothing has changed at Rolf in 20 years. I can’t believe they are still in business.
  • 9 1
 I would if I could but I cannot (afford them). However, in the world of $2000+ wheelsets, I think Berd is the best bang for your buck. I know plenty of people who do gnarly distances and ride on them without a hair of complaint for years and thousands of hours of use.
  • 2 28
flag blowmyfuse (Nov 22, 2022 at 11:20) (Below Threshold)
 For years? The company hasn't existed for "years".
  • 10 1
 @blowmyfuse: They were founded in 2015. I know folks who have been riding them since 2019ish.
  • 2 0
 Like 7 years.
  • 2 13
flag blowmyfuse (Nov 23, 2022 at 5:55) (Below Threshold)
 @corposello: So 3 years. "Years" implies much longer.

Example: "I've been mountain biking without injury for years"
Sounds like I'm pretty good. But if said I started riding 3 years ago and am injury free sounds much different.

#captainpedantic here
  • 2 0
 @blowmyfuse: years is the plural version of.. you guessed it.. a year. So even 2 years is described as years.

It's not that hard man.

Plus riding for 3 years straight with absolutely no injury is pretty decent in my book ha.
  • 8 0
 Havent´t read all the comments, but these are not backed up with free lifetime warranty though, when reading the finer prints:
Wheels: 5 years against manufacturing defects
Crash replacement: the damaged Berd wheel will be replaced or repaired to new condition for $200 for the period of 5 years from the date of purchase
Customer is responsible for labor and shipping for all crash replacements
So, I guess I ll go spend my kidney somewhere else...
  • 2 0
 I think this just applies to berd brand wheels. Not the WAO versions. It would be worth asking if you’re interested in them.
  • 6 1
 I'm quite BERD curious and I'd love to try a build myself, but the price of entry is keeping me away for now. Compared to regular spokes, the BERD product is eye-wateringly expensive. By the time you're through all you need, you're in it for about 600 USD. That's a lot of normal spoke breaking before we get close to even. ouch!
  • 2 0
 @j-t-g I wouldn’t say they are worth it if you are on a budget. I personally like the ride feel, and of course the weight savings. They are also plenty strong. Having said that, there are plenty of places you could potentially use that extra money for other upgrades on the bike. If you come in to baller money and want a good noticeable upgrade berd rims and spokes work well together.
  • 1 2
 Not to mention they take 5 days to build (if you use NOBLs recommendations). Turns out thats a huge barrier for me.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viCQQRd80iM
  • 9 0
 Bring back silver rims!
  • 6 0
 Really impressive weight. Most manufacturers can't get a gravel wheelset under that!
  • 1 0
 Indeed. My gravel set based off some rims from HEAD are ~400g more massive. But also less than half the price...
  • 1 0
 @fraserw: Dont worry about the weight, worry about the aero. Try an EZDisc
  • 1 0
 @wburnes: Aero doesn't factor into my 'gravel' rides. They are more like 90s mountain bike rides with afew road bits to link them up (I don't care about road speed).
  • 3 0
 Absolutely love mine. Won't ride anything else. Been smashing my TR27's for going on two years now. Especially considering the weight savings versus the price of other premium carbon wheels. A couple grams is no big deal, but they are several hundred grams lighter than my Reserve's and ride a lot better IMHO.
  • 3 0
 Cant wait for the patent to expire so we serfs can start to get cheap copies in 10-15 years. Made a set of DIY spokes and that was lots of fun but just too much work keeping them tensioned. That is the secret sauce Berd has figured out is how to prevent creep in the connetion points that I could not. Great idea! Hopefully price can come down as it gets adopted more widely.

Dont see why you would need special tools to true these ( you need 2 small wrenches ( tire on) or 1 whrench and a screw driver( tire off) ....just need a hammer...kidding. Berd has a video and they use a standard parktool spoke tension tool.
  • 4 0
 I don't think they are patented. At least BERD arn't the only company doing this kind of spoke.
Pirope has been making textile spokes for a few years now and i keep hearing good things about their wheelsets.
pirope.net

Their 1480g Enduro/Trail wheelset isn't any less expensive, though.
  • 2 0
 @Ttimer: Spinergy also has a similar technology, PBO spokes.
  • 5 0
 I’ve made multiple sets of these.

1) you need to use dm20 Dyneema it doesn’t creep…a commercially available source is rob line oceanstat20 2mm

2) you need a little extra spoke thread to account for settling of the splices

3) you need to retention about 4-5 times from initial build as splices compress

4)glue or lock stick his splices to prevent slipping when loaded dynamically
  • 1 0
 @Mikevdv: I probably didn't give it enough time before I retired the wheelset. I will dm you as the berd thread is maybe not the spot to discuss....
  • 1 0
 Just saw on Berd's website at the bottom of the Hawk 30 product webpage- 'Berd spokes are protected by US Patents 10,150,332 B2, 10,661,598 B2, and patents pending.' Not sure how that applies to others breaking into the market, but I am impressed with Mikevdv's foray into the Dyneema world. With the cost of everything else you guys need some kind of a break in Canada. At least a lot of your pharmaceuticals aren't as expensive as in the states.
  • 8 0
 Give us a review, PB!
  • 5 1
 WAO told me 28H and BERD would be too flexy. They suggested 32H. I'd build with DT350 hubs instead of the more expensive and crappy bearing I9 hubs.
  • 3 1
 I´m running Pirope Wheels with textile spokes for 2,5 years now on my enduro bike.
They weigh 1445g in 27.5" with a Newmen 30mm alloy rim.
They have seen a lot of trails, bikepark, jumps und downhills and they are straight like on the first day.

But the best thing about them is not the weight (it´s also great), it is the riding behavior. They feel stiff and precise but at the same time much more damped, with better traction and less vibration in the bike than with traditional spokes.
I love them.
In my opinion the Pirope Wheels are nicer made than the Berd wheels with with the spokes knotted to the hub. But with Pirope you need their special hubs (made by Newmen).
  • 5 0
 What Happens to the spokes when a rock kicks into them?
  • 5 0
 I live in Las Vegas and have been riding BERD spokes for a bit over a year. Here in the desert, its riding rocks on rocks all day. I've broken 3-4 regular spokes, but by BERD spoke wheelset remains fine. However, your bike shop needs special tools to true the wheels, which is a bummer.
  • 1 0
 I'd be mildly curious about this too. It doesn't happen very often but if you do a few thousand km on rocky trails it will happen eventually.
  • 10 0
 They are ridiculously tough. I helped out a fellow racer a couple years ago who had a 29+ wheelset with Berd spokes. He had skipped the retensioning that Berd recommends after the first several hours of riding and one of the nipples unscrewed itself from the spoke. The spoke got absolutely wrapped up in his cassette and once we pulled it out I was able to retension the spoke with no apparent damage.
  • 4 0
 Nothing, really. The rock bounces away. The spokes laugh. They are generally tougher than steel spokes, outside of a razor blade or some good scissors it's hard to hurt them.
  • 7 0
 @VonFalkenhausen: But what about fire lol?
  • 1 0
 @Thendeb: well, dyneema (uhmwpe) has a low melting point. It's amazing stuff, and that's its fatal flaw.
  • 8 0
 @spinzillathespacelizard: so don't ride these across active lava fields or through hot coals. Got it.
  • 13 1
 I'd be more concerned with what happens if you park your bike at a knitting group meet-up.
  • 4 0
 @spinzillathespacelizard: 144-152C is what I found online for a quick search. Only time I can see that being an issue is if your wheels are perilously close to your exhaust on your car while on the rack. Otherwise, especially with the spokes being white, heat shouldn't be an issue, right?
  • 3 0
 @Thendeb: Ride faster.
  • 1 0
 6 months in, has not happened yet, but I’m not looking forward to having to replace any.
  • 2 0
 We have a lot of loose rock where I live. After 6 months of enduro riding, spokes are holding up to rock impacts.

When I had my WA1 Unions laced with these spokes I thought it'd be a fun experiment to test the vibration damping claims. I could feel it the first moment I got on trail. I kid you not. I was shocked. It wasn't typical bike industry marketing garbage. Kudos, Berd.

Ordered the Hawk 27 wheel set for my XC/downcountry and a set of these for trail and light enduro. Stoked!
  • 1 0
 I have Pirope spokes made of Dyneema on a set of high quality carbon rims (German made Lilienthal XT wheels). They ride very nice but the spokes are chipping as hell from whatever is coming at them on my Kenovo SL. I’m using permanently glue on lose fibers trying to prevent further splicing, at least for cosmetic reasons. No spoke broke so far but IDK how long the spokes gonna last. They definitely get damaged from rock strikes, although it appears that the damage remains mostly superficial.
  • 1 0
 @tatchle1: guess you shouldn't Zwift on these then
  • 1 0
 Main reason I asked is I remember reading somewhere you have to have your hub machined down to remove the sharp edges where the spoke attaches to the hub because they can sever the strands causing a complete failure. I wasnt sure if this was the case of severing strands further up the spoke due to rock strike etc. I am lacing some carbon rims to my hope hubs soon and trying to determine what spokes I want to use.
  • 1 0
 @LaXcarp: for J-bend hubs, you don't machine the hubs, it's simpler than that. You have to take away some material to round out the spoke hole with a small drill bit and follow that with a polishing bit.
  • 4 1
 We Are One has made some ultra light, durable, and wide rims for other brands (industry nine + berd). I'd love to see them release their own version!!
  • 3 2
 BERD spokes on WAO rims would be amazing
  • 11 1
 WAO made these ^ rims and the hawk27 rims
  • 1 2
 @hughbm: Oh. Must have missed that.

If have the cash when I need another wheelset, this will probably be it.
  • 1 3
 Atomik wheels make that : I9 + BERD
Tell Wayne Lee... the owner that I sent you
  • 4 1
 @tatchle1: do you people even read the articles you posting on?
  • 9 2
 @Sethimus: what do you mean you people?
  • 1 2
 @tatchle1: people who are challenged by reading AND comprehending a short text like this one
  • 3 0
 Sub-1500 gram wheelsets are the only wheelsets I'm interested in. Bit expensive still but love seeing cool new tech to keep that rotating weight down.
  • 2 0
 I would rather spend my money upgrading my wheels to these WAO/Berds than buy something stupid like a $15k Santa Cruz.
  • 5 0
 Need to take those things to a luthier to get them trued.
  • 1 0
 Stairway to Heaven Berd youtube video?
  • 3 0
 Okay so now I can skip these “enduro casing tires” and use DH/Super gravity instead with little or no rational weight penalty.
  • 2 0
 I have the HAWK27s on my Revel Rascal and they make for such a nice ride, I wouldn't hesitate one bit to throw these on a future enduro build!
  • 1 0
 Is it totally true the bike is supported from the spokes above the hub? Is it not the spokes above and below? (Or any ones laced from the bottom of the hub to the rim?)

My brain hurts
  • 4 0
 The spokes above are in tension the spokes below would be in compression if they weren't pretensioned. A spoke is too thin to be used in compression, it would buckle under a very small load. So the upper half of the spokes hold the hub up and the lower half of the spokes keep the rim from deforming.
  • 1 0
 @gaberoc: thanks appreciate that. I guess spokes broken because the tension above isn’t high enough and therefore spokes below the hub are subject to compression.

Aren’t wheels just a beautiful equilibrium.

I wonder when it flipped or the benefits of supporting spokes are greater than their weight? Thinking car / cart wheels
  • 2 1
 It's a bit simplistic to say that the spokes above the hub support the weight of the rider. The wheel is under such tension that the spokes at the bottom just lose a little tension when the rim is loaded, but all spokes are still playing a vital role in holding the wheel together. If the spokes at the bottom of the wheel lost too much tension, the nipples would unthread (an issue with low profile rims that are 'compliant').
  • 1 0
 No because spokes are under tension, so the spokes under te hub are actually pulling the bike down. Maybe in that sense.. Anyways the spokes under balance the ones over..
  • 7 3
 They’re just stringing us along.
  • 2 0
 Money for old rope.
  • 1 0
 No strings attached
  • 4 0
 Dang theses would basically erase the weight penalty of dual ply tires
  • 5 0
 That's pretty close to how I justified going with Berd spokes on my latest build. No regrets.
  • 1 0
 @VonFalkenhausen: I justified it with free cushcore on my grams budget
  • 1 0
 Actually, even with cushcore pro (+260 grams) I still lost 142 grams.
  • 3 0
 But tire mass is a lot futher away from hub than spoke mass, so it's not apples to apples comparison. For rotational weight at least
  • 4 0
 @kanioni: Bro, don't introduce facts to mess up my justification method for spending extra money on my bike.
  • 1 0
 @wburnes: That's actually an even closer comparison, I went with slightly beefier tires and Rimpact inserts.
  • 1 0
 @VonFalkenhausen: haha sorry
  • 6 3
 Light enough for xc, strong enough for enduro....... color me skeptical.
  • 8 0
 I was skeptical too but ridden a set of their previous version (TR30) at bike parks all summer and chunky trails in UT, CO, AZ with no issues. The TR30's do weigh slightly more but still crazy light for how tough they are.
  • 4 3
 Am I the only one who would NEVER run a 393g rim on an enduro bike? very curious to see how these feather weight rims hold up when a rock looks at them the wrong way...
  • 16 0
 The spokes make the difference here. They fall out of tension on big hits more efficiently and allow impact energy to disperse itself over a wider circumference of the rim without yanking the nipple through the spoke bed at the peripheral of the compressed/ovalized rim. Or at least that's been our experience in trying to break a set under multiple 200lb+ product testers on 50lb e-MTB's. Bend-but-don't-break is definitely a realistic engineering approach.
  • 2 12
flag zenandtheart (Nov 22, 2022 at 12:10) (Below Threshold)
 @boonecycles: this makes no sense
  • 4 0
 @zenandtheart: spend six months trying to break a set and it will help. Also, watch the slow-mo video's of these wheels vs. metal-spoked wheels undergoing UCI stress testing and observe the nipple pull-through failures.
  • 4 4
 @boonecycles: it has nothing to do with the spokes, I’m just saying sun 400g carbon hoops on an enduro bike wig me out. I don’t believe berd claims their spokes do anything in the way of preventing rim failure.
  • 2 0
 To clarify I’m speaking about rock strikes, where I live these eat wheels left and right.
  • 2 0
 @boonecycles:
100% agree with bend it don’t break it approach. In addition to allowing I to get out of the way of impacts better

The flexible spokes allow the wheel to deform more while still holding spoke tension under larger compressive rim loading.

This keeps the rim better supported against lateral buckiling (taco) when impacted in radial/lateral directions that can cause metal spokes to go slack

If you try to flex most shallow bare rims they have tons of flex so are capable of moving much farther than most spokes would allow without risk of rim failure…as such a strong more flexible spoke allows the system to work better and bend without breaking
  • 1 0
 @Maxwrbike: spoke nipples pulling through the rim's spoke bed during a big hit is ultimately a rim failure. The Berd spokes help prevent that. That is Berd's claim, and the UCI stress testing backs it up. But yeah, head-on square-edged rock impacts are a somewhat different dynamic. That type of impact generates a lot of concentrated energy to withstand making it more difficult to absorb/displace with engineered compliance. In the real world -- with a tire insert installed -- this wheel system fairs surprisingly well with that type of impact though.
  • 1 0
 @boonecycles: yeah I see how they would help with rim failure from spokes pulling through, as my shop’s wheel build I don’t really see wheels fail in that way often. Even with inserts and dh casing tires carbon rims fail all the time down here from rim strikes, but based on your profile you’re riding a 115mm bike and I’m riding a 180mm bike, and most of the rim replacements I have don’t for customers are also riding long travel bikes, so we are likely riding very differently
  • 3 0
 @boonecycles: Hey Clint, I can vouch for the strength and durability of the Berd wheelset and the spokes. I've been running them for over a year here in chunky AZ. Been to every techy/ rocky destination with these wheels and they are tough as nails. I've done 6-7' foot drops, Mag7/Portal the hard lines and still good to go. I did have 1 spoke snap, only because I was in a creek crossing and a 2-3" diameter stick got into my spokes against the rear chain stay, pulled it out and kept on riding for another 8 miles. If I had standard spokes it probably would've taken out 2-3-4 of them. Rim is still straight and tru and the spokes look good. The main thing is the ride dampening quality. Until you ride a set, you don't know what you're missing.
  • 2 0
 That's an impressive build, weight and price, all things considered. I'd love to try a set.
  • 1 0
 I am quite curious.
Is it easy to change a string-spoke?
And if one breaks, how does manage the wheel? Is the behavior similar to a wheel with a regular broken spoke?
  • 3 0
 I play the BERD at our post-ride singalongs.
  • 1 0
 I use wheels with steel spokes that are 32 individual weapons ! Or, twist a few spokes together for a more durable weapon. Good luck fighting off Zombies with a wet noodle.
  • 2 0
 Love my Berd Hawk 27’s, super light and fast AF
  • 3 0
 Spynergy
  • 2 1
 The white strings must look like crap after a few dusty/muddy rides. Easy to get clean?
  • 1 0
 this is a good question. if I was buying a pair, i'd want the white spokes but only if they didn't get brown/nasty
  • 2 0
 Where’s the mixed wheel option?
  • 1 2
 Saw a video where a wheelbuilder was having to drill out the spoke holes in a hub to fit the berd spokes through. Is that the case with all hubs and if so thats a huge NO.
  • 7 0
 Pretty sure the spoke holes aren't drilled out. But you do need to chamfer the holes so there's no sharp edges to cut through the spokes
  • 2 0
 Berd's the word
  • 1 1
 Underrated comment! Big Grin
  • 2 0
 Very interestring
  • 1 0
 they have an onyx hubs version as well for +$100. very tempting....
  • 1 0
 I would get a WRP centerhub and a really lightweight rear hub instead of an onyx hub. Same silence, probably 200 grams less.
  • 1 0
 @wburnes: onyx vesper is only 90g more than i9 hydra, plus the WRP is like $1900 AUD, not even including the hub. i don't know if the math works out for my own taste
  • 1 0
 @LesZedCB: 1199 AUD, which is $809 USD. You can also more easily transfer it to a different bike than a hub. In my case I bought an onyx hub and o-chain so no real difference price wise.

I should have gone with center hub. I might just remove the internals of my onyx to reduce the weight and buy the centre hub.
  • 1 0
 @LesZedCB: I think there are also lighter hubs than i9 that you can use
  • 1 0
 Looks great!... EXCEPT Centrelock only?!? What? Why?
  • 1 0
 It's lighter, and faster to install. The only downside is if you bend a disc so bad the wheel doesn't turn, you need a bb or cassette tool to take the disc off to limp home as opposed to a T25.
  • 2 1
 They lost me at 'Centerlock only'. WTF?
  • 1 0
 It's lighter.
  • 2 0
 @mtb-thetown: But the rotors are heavier.
  • 1 0
 @wburnes: but Berd doesn't have to account for that in their press release.

I also think it's still a lighter system weight overall, but may depend on the rotor.
  • 1 0
 Would be great if the guys from @fanatikbikeco could do a test on them Smile
  • 3 1
 Why? All these retailer reviews love everything they sell
  • 1 0
 Any black Friday sales?
  • 1 0
 BERD will have BF announcement on their socials.
  • 1 1
 You lost me att centerlock ;(
  • 2 0
 You can afford a $2200 wheelset but not new rotors?
  • 1 4
 if BERD would just sell their little fittings that go on the end you could make these with your choice of high end line form your local marine store for a quarter of the cost.
  • 4 0
 Lol. It's just the end of a regular spoke, but that's not the hard part. Go ahead and give it a shot. Good luck with that.
  • 1 0
 John Tomac would approve
  • 1 4
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