First Look: Actofive's CNC-Machined Signature Cranks Are a Work Of German Art

Jun 16, 2022
by Seb Stott  
photo

Actofive, the German bike brand behind the P-Train, are launching a crankset. The crank arms are CNC machined, giving them that woodgrain-like machined aesthetic, and allowing them to be made in-house in Germany. Interestingly, to make the crank arms hollow (for the best strength-to-weight ratio) Actofive settled on a two-piece design for the crank arms themselves. Each arm is made in two halves, both machined from a block of solid aluminium, then the two halves are bonded together, a bit like the two halves of an easter egg, with a hollow cavity in the middle.

CNC machining and bonding are techniques Actofive are familiar with from their 7075 aluminium P-Train trail bike, so they wanted a crank to match the bike and make use of that expertise.
Signature Crank Details

▪ two-piece hollow crank arm construction
▪ CNC machined from aluminium
▪ anodized in silver, black or two-tone
▪ 168mm Q-Factor (73mm BSA) or 163mm Q-Factor (68mm BSA)
▪ 170mm or 165mm length
▪ Compatible with SRAM DUB BB (29 mm spindle) & SRAM 3-bolt chainrings
▪ 475g claimed weight (without chainring)
▪ First pre-orders for delivery in fall 2022
▪ Price: 690,00 EUR, 10% pre-order discount
▪ More info: actofive.com

"Analogous to the construction of the frame, they feature a two-piece hollow construction from CNC machined thin shells of high-strength aluminium... This ensures an ideal application of forces within the structure and a cool look," says Simon Metzner, Actofive's founder, "but on the other hand, it complicates the process, because of the manual bonding process in addition to the machining process of all components. I am convinced that this effort is worth it in terms of the above-mentioned targets."

photo
The mixed-colour crank (second to bottom) illustrates the two-part construction.

After machining, the two parts are anodized in black or silver before being bonded together. This makes it possible to have two-tone black and silver arms by using one of each colour.

Making one crank (both arms) apparently requires about 3.8 kg of aluminum and two hours of machining. Remnants are recycled professionally. The bonding is done by hand and takes about 30 minutes.

photo

For the interface, Actofive have made life easy for themselves (and potentially for customers too) by using the same 29 mm spindle diameter as SRAM, allowing them to use SRAM DUB bottom brackets. Similarly, the three-bolt chainring interface makes it compatible with SRAM chainrings, and along with the SRAM-style integrated crank puller, means removing and installing the crank arms or chainring requires no special tools. Bearing preload is adjusted with a threaded collar (blue or black) on the left-hand side of the crank.

photo
Both crank arms can be removed with a single Allen key.
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SRAM chainrings fit via three T25 bolts.

The crank is available in two lengths: 170 mm or 165 mm. "We love fast turns, lean angles and a low centre of gravity," says the press release. "For this reason, we prefer to ride short cranks."

The spindle is interchangeable and two spindle-lengths allow the crank to be used with a 73mm BSA bottom bracket (Q-factor 168mm) or a 68mm BSA bottom bracket (Q-factor 163mm). The latter makes it compatible with many gravel and CX bikes.

With a claimed weight of 475g without a chainring and a price of 690 EUR (621 Euros for pre-orders), you can get a slightly better cost-to-weight ratio elsewhere (a SRAM X01 carbon crank weighs 415g and retails for €610), but the weight is still impressive for aluminium and those aesthetics are unique.


photo


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Reviews and Tech First Looks Actofive


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252 Comments
  • 100 11
 Nice crank for sure but CNC will always be inferior in terms of structural integrity (strength) to forged, thats one reason Raceface stopped ages ago
  • 21 10
 it depends on what you cnc it out of but, generally, yes.
  • 69 0
 What about forgings that are cnc machined?
  • 145 21
 Ah, another ridiculously priced piece of mtb tech that provides little to no practical benefit to the rider. Here, take my $700+!! Absolutely laughable.
  • 7 45
flag schlayer (Jun 16, 2022 at 8:29) (Below Threshold)
 @Tmackstab: Are you some sort of machining expert ?
  • 59 4
 @schlayer: I'm amazed you were able to find the time during your 3km 100m single lap of SFU to write that comment
  • 18 1
 You still typically mill (CNC) forged parts to finish sizing. ( as well as just about everything else, castings, additive stuff, etc )
  • 7 38
flag schlayer (Jun 16, 2022 at 8:54) (Below Threshold)
 @Tmackstab: Ackshully... My single laps are 6.19kms 271m but whos counting.
  • 26 1
 @Tmackstab: a la Hope cranks.
Forge to near shape first and then final machine with CNC. Strong, pretty, and awesome.
  • 12 2
 @riggadon: They're almost exactly the same as the Leonardi Capo crank.

Well except the Capo is closer to 1/3rd of the price for basically the same weight

r2-bike.com/LEONARDI-Crank-Set-Capo-SRAM-8-hole-Chainwheel-Powermeter-2899-mm-SRAM-DUB-Spindle-silver
  • 4 10
flag Bro-LanDog (Jun 16, 2022 at 9:36) (Below Threshold)
 Isn't 7075 already forged?
  • 15 0
 @chrod: and Race Face back in the day. When I worked there in the late 90s we would get forgings delivered that were the rough shape of cranks. We'd have to manually straighten them to within a tolerance so the machine could hold them and then they would get machined.
  • 9 0
 @honourablegeorge: other than the Actofive is hollow and bonded, and that one is just machined. Not sure of the strength implications. I am not a machining expert.
  • 1 0
 @riggadon: ya what's the point?
Enviro?
  • 7 0
 @Tmackstab: I loved my old Turbines! thanks for aligning them correctly -- those are bulletproof and have been through 3 riders in the family since then!
  • 12 0
 @Bro-LanDog: 7075 refers to the alloy and heat treatment, forging is a seperate process
  • 4 2
 @PtotheK: so the billets aren't forged?
  • 2 1
 @Tmackstab: how about WAO make some cranks?
  • 19 0
 @Bro-LanDog: OK so a Billet is just an alloy that has been extruded into a bar or tube. You can find this stuff easily at any metal supplier usually in 6000 series off the shelf.

Forgings are pressed into a rough shape of the finished part and can be of any alloy. They are generally much stronger because of the immense pressure used to make them. They are also $$$ and have to be ordered in greater quantities generally.

Cast is just molten metal poured into a mold and cooled. Low end crap usually.
  • 13 2
 @PtotheK: Almost correct. 7075 refers to the chemical composition of the alloy without any indication of the thermo-mechanical treatment. I still guess it is hot-rolled, tempered and then machined so the mechanical properties are comparable to some forged cranks.
  • 17 2
 @Bro-LanDog: part of the process is hot rolling, which is very similar to forging (heat and pressure to change its shape). This aligns the grain structure uniformly along and across the entire slab (when ordering billets you can specify grain direction) Forging modifies the direction of the grain structure, this allows for a stronger part. This can then be finished machined to achieve size/shape/tolerance that’s required. Or left as a forging.
  • 7 0
 @Tmackstab: Most forged parts (even near net shape forgings) have some finish machining. As long as it doesn't intrude into the grain structure at critical stress points it's fine. Most machined parts are made from forged ingots.
  • 8 0
 CNC is the machining process; the material properties are independent of that. The bonding of the two components is the interesting part. I'd be curious to know how that's being done.
  • 1 1
 No sense in repeating a good comment, but agree. And it's excess cost to machine them.
  • 3 0
 @honourablegeorge: also Shimano hollow tech. Exact same idea.https://r2-bike.com/SHIMANO-Deore-XT-Crank-Direct-Mount-1x12-speed-FC-M8100-1-without-Chainring. Every 30g seems to double or treble the price. They do look nice though
  • 5 0
 @OnTheRivet: correct, as per my above comment about my time at Race Face. We're all just talking in circles at this point lol
  • 3 0
 @Cord1: this is what I was looking for. Makes sense. Thanks.
  • 4 1
 Question for all the experts in here. If these are retailing for about $750 USD, then the rough rule of thumb for retail is that they cost around $350 to make. If it costs that much to machine just a set of cranks, how much does it cost to machine the freaking P-Train frame? I can't find pricing for it on their website anywhere. Trek, Specialized, etc are getting their carbon frames built and shipped stateside for well under $1000. How can you possibly make a fully machined frame profitable?
  • 2 1
 @hamncheez: answer to the last question is simple. By making it desirable. Rolex watches, despite all the marketing, don't tell time much better than my Casio.
  • 5 0
 @ak-77: if I want exotic, I'd get titanium!
  • 2 0
 @hamncheez:
I remember roughly 5000€ for frame without shock
  • 24 0
 @hamncheez:
If I had to guess the aluminum billet for those cranks goes for about $5-7/lb. CNC machining for those cranks would probably be done on a small 5 axis milling machine which would sell for about $120/hr (machine cost new probably $150-$250k). Those cranks would mill out in about 30min per piece. If they're making lots of them then it would have a loader as well so it can be a relatively labour free operation. Lights out manufacturing ideally. Turn it on at night, come back in the morning and there's a bunch of machined parts waiting to be assembled.
Aluminum machines extremely fast, it's also highly recyclable so saving material is meh... Saving time would be more important to keep the costs down. I would guess the raw manufacturing cost at about $75-125/unit. I expect it's a small machine run though and a difficult business to finance so the indirect costs will be quite high and represent the majority of the costs (building, wages, insurance, computer modelling, engineering, advertising etc). Those indirect costs have to spread across each piece sold and would apply to any part regardless of size. So if they have $250,000 of annual indirect costs over 1,000 units per year it would add $250 per unit. How the costs get spread out is up to the accountants but anyway you shake it they have to be covered.
  • 2 1
 Race Face were near net forging pieces of 7075 Al milled to final shape . I trust my 7000 series hollow Saint cranks . They weigh 700 grams . Race Face also ran in house testing. Quite frankly I love the old CNC Race Face cranks they were strong but same weight as my Saints . 400 gram cranks of any material are questionable for oh , riding North Shore trails .
  • 3 0
 @Armand74: If heat treated it would have a T then number designation like 6061 T6 or 7.

I believe forging aligns the grain structure in the metal increasing the strength.
  • 6 2
 @chrod: yeah......seriously. these are just Hope cranks +$500. LMFAO

in addition, the Hope cranks are just about 100g heavier, but.....they are a solid piece and not bonded. Speaking of bonded cranks, I am not sure if anyone is aware of this outside of roadie circles, but Shimano for several years has used 2 piece bonded cranks in Ultegra and Dura-Ace. They recently stopped doing so as they were failing due to galvanic corrosion. If Shimano couldn't figure out how to make it work, what makes anyone think some tiny company has figured it out?
  • 3 0
 @jaznomore: probably using glue
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: Sure!
  • 1 0
 @honourablegeorge: One could argue that the hollow structure is quite a bit stronger and stiffer than the milled-out one used in Capo cranks. However, those are awesome piece of equipment as well.
  • 2 0
 @jaznomore: @jaznomore: Simon has a 3 axis cnc, but a rather large one (3000x1500 or something alike).
Click here for a glimpse: flickr.com/photos/madcyborg/50870283842
I believe it cost a little less than your estimate, but the hour rate is about what I remember from my visit. But that's 1.5 years ago, so it might have changed.
I was there to get milled a prototype of a small carrier. He did it free of charge, in exchange for photos. I'm quite lucky with that.
  • 1 0
 @conoat: the Hope RX cranks are bonded (www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHU3EaAPUR4). Looks like they engineered in a MASSIVE bond interface though (think two C-channels nested together, not just a clamshell like what Actofive appears to have done). The bond line is almost the width of the crankarm and it's perpendicular to pedaling forces.

Still don't know if I'd buy a bonded crank for mtb though...
  • 3 0
 @hamncheez: eewings and call it a day.
  • 1 1
 @Tmackstab: it’s been a while since my metallurgy class, but I believe the strength in forging comes from the grain structure being compressed and shaped around the curves. Machining takes a uniform grained material and cuts the grains making it weaker. So machining a forged metal will make it weaker, maybe less so than billet though. I’m sure there’s some nerds on here that could set us straight.
  • 1 1
 @txcx166: my thoughts exactly
  • 1 0
 Anyone else recall the Crank bros bonded cranks... They didn't last long.
  • 2 0
 @jaznomore: This kind of part is an easy 3 axis mill part, no features to hit on the parts sides and no point trying to avoid a second operation, you could make them on any $60k cnc mill and fusion.

They don’t make them on a 5 axis machine or a ‘normal’ mill though, they do them on quite a unique ‘gantry style’ mill, look them up on Instagram and you will see it, or here portatec.de/en/compact

They look to have an established cnc business already so most of the startup / indirect costs you assume arent really relevant.

These things are just plain expensive, the profit margin on them will be huge.
  • 3 2
 @bkm303: it's not the bond surface or how little/much of it is that's the issue. its the corrosion under it. that corrosion is what breaks the bond between the metal and the adhesive. doesn't matter how strong the aluminum is or epoxy, because Aluminum Oxide is for sure weaker than both.
  • 3 0
 @conoat: True in principle, but I've never seen the non-drive side Shimano crankarms fail - it's always near the giant/wavy bond joint that forms the drive side spider... where the outer Al crankarm piece forms a closed moisture trap over the hollow steel spindle (shocker!). So moisture enters through the open end of the spindle on the NDS --> migrates to the drive side --> gets stuck between the bonded pieces --> forms a battery with the steel --> disaster.

All that is to say... I *think* the NDS crankarm concept (which is also basically the same as the Hope RX) is probably okay since there's nowhere to trap moisture between the two bonded parts, and the bond line doesn't touch steel to form the battery.

But again... given the choice I'd probably just not buy a bonded crank from Hope or anyone else. Unfortunate because I'm pretty sure the Shimano ones used to be welded and/or just formed from a hollow tube.
  • 1 1
 @MadCyborg: Awesome! I've got a ton of respect for the guys that do this stuff.
  • 1 3
 @justanotherusername: Not sure what business you run but at mine all the costs are relevant.
  • 2 2
 @conoat: bonding will never be better than not bonding, unless it’s being done to improve other properties, eg. lamination for additional strength
  • 2 1
 @jaznomore: you deliberately misunderstand me - you know full well if an established business with pre existing trade begins to make a product in a different industry using existing equipment much of the cost you assumed is already covered.

This isn’t a startup which has been setup to make bike parts.
  • 1 0
 @riggadon: you call being featured in Vital's bike of the day or PB's riders' rides no practical benefit? You must be new here...
  • 1 0
 @conoat: Shimano have been using hollow, bonded crank arms for many years(20+ I'd say?), and has been using them for the mountain bike cranksets for a long time too. And still do. They haven't quit using the process due to issues - they're newest, just released higher end cranksets use the Hollowtech process. What Shimano WON'T do is acknowledge an issue with the system that leads to failures(and sometimes injuries)..
  • 2 1
 @Teamnextgen: Plenty of processes available to prevent oxidation / corrosion prior to bonding, the aerospace industry do plenty of it
  • 2 0
 @conoat: wtf lol
  • 2 0
 @conoat: comparing an apple and orange
  • 1 2
 @bkm303: I got a ND ultegra in my bottom drawer of mystery right now that is 3/4 disbonded.
  • 3 2
 @Teamnextgen: they CANNOT acknowledge the issue. it is both antithetical to the Japanese culture, as well as humongously litigeous.

the fact they stopped doing it is tantamount to admission when it comes to Japanese Corporate culture.
  • 2 0
 @justanotherusername: exactly this in very simple terms
  • 2 1
 This was my first thought... anyone remember the 1990s when CNC'ed crank cost a mint and broke all the time? Remember that shimano forges their crank at extremely high pressure, a process no one can match, and that their cranks last and last and last? Also shimano has been making Hollow cranks for over 20 years... But these are cool, I'm still a sucker but pretty sure the SLX cranks on my bike are better.
  • 1 4
 @justanotherusername: there was no misunderstanding. The logic you are describing is great way to lose money.
  • 3 1
 @jaznomore: Fantastic, good luck with your business, it isn't 'logic', just reality.
  • 1 3
 @justanotherusername: Ughhh... OK and good luck with your business as well.
  • 1 0
 @jaznomore @justanotherusername
You guys are just across the bay from each other.
We the commenters of PB should sponsor a meetup at a local pub to resolve these differences.
The Crow & Gate on Nanaimo looks pretty decent: goo.gl/maps/enkQRj5evsy7xEyU6
  • 1 0
 @chrod: I’m from England, never been to Canada.

You are welcome to sponsor my plane ticket out to Canada though, would love to visit, even if I have to go on a random date with someone, at least he will get the food cheque being the successful businessman eh ;-)
  • 3 0
 @chrod: yep we could do pub reviews
  • 1 0
 @Compositepro @jaznomore @justanotherusername

Gofundme is up: www.gofundme.com/f/pinkbike-pen-pals-unite-in-nanaimo

Started you dudes off with enough for your first 2 pints ($14.20 incl tip), hope to see you bro's meet up and slap some trails.
  • 2 0
 @chrod: I just tossed in 5 bucks
  • 1 0
 @chrod: That place is sweet. I try to make a point of going there whenever I'm in Nanaimo.
  • 2 0
 @chrod: Love it! Also love the Amanita Muscaria profile pic. I'll kick in $20.
  • 1 0
 @jaznomore: dude!
if this actually ever blew up and met the goal I'll join you guys (never been to BC aside from Whistler)
  • 2 0
 @chrod: Sweet! I'm in the Fraser Valley (Langley/Abbotsford) about 50km east of Vancouver. If you're ever up here and you want a tour feel free to ping me. We'd love to give you a tour of the local trails. There's tons of riding here. Sumas, Bear, Woodlot, Ledgeview, Red, Vedder in the valley; Fromme, Seymour and Cypress on the North Shore and Burke and Eagle in the middle.
  • 1 0
 @jaznomore: this gofundme is already making friends

Now we just need the PB brass to notice
  • 69 2
 The comments are sure to get 'cranky' on this one...
  • 21 3
 Comments will be pedaling a lot of hollow theories bonded together.
  • 3 4
 Ima bit cranky about the artsy cost in Euro!
  • 1 0
 I cnc what you did there
  • 1 0
 the price is sure to make people spin out
  • 51 0
 Sucks when they find out their 29mm spindle doesn't fit in DUB's 28.99 BB.
  • 2 1
 29 with specific tolerance may be even 28,7
  • 6 0
 I dont get these dub jokes
  • 11 0
 easy solution - leave the spindle in a bottle of coke overnight
  • 11 0
 @browner: iron bru
  • 4 0
 @lightone: the joke probably started here www.pinkbike.com/news/whats-the-deal-with-dub-more-questions-for-sram.html
  • 6 0
 @escay: I remember this article, however jokes like those make me think that sram marketing worked better than intended. (Personally I still use 12 yrs old atlas cranks).
  • 2 0
 @escay: Thanks for the link. :-)
  • 31 1
 Nice crank, crazy money
  • 3 0
 I was literally just typing that.. its looks amazing
  • 5 0
 Yup. Way too much $ for something that gets beat on every ride....
  • 9 0
 @Marky771: cheaper than my fillings, and those get rattled pretty hard.
  • 9 1
 CNC: Certainly Not Cheap.
  • 22 1
 I'm glad I lived through the 90's and rode bikes full of CNC cranks and everything else, which were usually compatibility nightmares, and often broke. Now I'm satisfied riding my $100 XT cranks that work great don't break to matter how many times I bash them into rocks.
  • 10 2
 My XT cranks stripped the splines on a big drop, landed both feet down. Very funny ride home.
  • 19 1
 @Blownoutrides: pics or it didn't happen
  • 11 0
 @Blownoutrides: User name checks out
  • 24 1
 690 eur? laughs as my beatenup slx loses another chunk of metal of its body.
  • 28 0
 SLX is low-key the best.
  • 7 0
 You see all the carbon cranks snapping and ripping out inserts, SLX cheap af and won’t die
  • 2 1
 @jazzawil: "SLX cheap af and won’t die" kek
  • 5 1
 @timothyjplatt79: Descendant alloy is pretty good too, not as light but shimano was late with the 1 chainringthing so all my bikes have already a Descendant crank-and tons of steel chainrings which seap and wont die.
  • 9 0
 With a sharpie pen you can upgrade your SLX to XTR cranks.
  • 10 0
 @bigtim: with a sharpie SLX parts are better than XTR, they’re…….SEX parts.

Currently running a 12 speed XT drivetrain except for a SEX rear derailleur myself.
  • 2 0
 @timothyjplatt79:

SLX cranks (cheapest big weight drop), XT shifters (double upshifts) and cassette (cheapest big weight drop), Deore rear mech.

And OneUp switch spider and chainring is a decent compromise between weight price, at least once you factor in multiple chainrings.
  • 1 0
 @wyorider: I used to run a Shimano “Viagra” road rear mech on an old DJ bike. It was quite the perky upgrade over the Tiagra version it replaced…
  • 2 1
 This is the way!
  • 1 0
 @bigtim: with that same sharpie you can have custom SEXTR cranks.
  • 21 1
 $725 for aluminum crank arms... I would expect them be titanium for that price.
  • 11 3
 @feardabeast You can get made in the US 5Dev's or Engin's for less.
  • 10 1
 A few hundred more gets you the E-wings, lighter and supposedly bombproof.
  • 7 0
 @Snowytrail: I have a set of e-wings I picked up from a friend, I have had them 4 years. Endless trail/jump miles, several enduro races at an expert level, plenty of rock strikes...no issues. Great cranks. Much rather pay up for them than these German cranks. If this Actofives were more in line of Hope prices, I could understand
  • 2 0
 @hellbelly: Agree and the 5Dev are way better looking
  • 18 1
 Pretty, but dumb expensive. White Industries are mega beautiful and seem cheap by comparison. If I got that expensive, it's eeWings.
  • 12 2
 Hope called, they want their cranks back
  • 26 0
 I just wish Hope would chill a bit with the logo size / design elements. Makes their cranks look way worse imo.
  • 7 2
 The low center of gravity part is a weird argument. Similar to the question a while back on mounting a water bottle high or low in the from to improve cornering. Does it change? Possibly. But will mere mortals tell the difference? Definitely not. There are many good arguments for crank length but COG is not one of them.
  • 2 3
 I would much rather have a centralized c.g. than a low c.g.
  • 11 0
 I think there argument is more along the lines of because they like bikes that have lower Cog and are so probably lower in general, they prefer shorter cranks to avoid strikes etc. I don't think they were meaning their crank lengths affect the CoG.
  • 2 4
 @Nairnster: "We love fast turns, lean angles and a low centre of gravity" none of that to me reads "we don't like pedal strikes" because at the end of the day does anyone?
  • 4 1
 I can definitely feel the difference between a 170mm crank and a 160mm crank when cornering. You have to ride them back back, but I'm convinced most people will notice.
  • 4 1
 Unless you're over 6 feet, 165 cranks are going to be better for you than 170 or 175. There is no measurable difference in power output, and there is an argument that a higher cadence will help you recover better after a tough ride the following day. Shorter crank arms allow for a more natural, higher cadence. They also allow for a lower BB, and who doesn't love a low BB?
  • 3 0
 @hamncheez: true, 165 cranks transformed my mega which honestly the BB is too low. I'd actually buy shorter cranks if they were easily available
  • 6 0
 @Nairnster: must be that. Because on the same bike, if you weight the outer foot as you should, a shorter crank brings your COG up. A bike with a lower bottom bracket but shorter cranks, with the same 'pedal strike' height as a higher bb/longer crank bike has a lower cog with the pedals level, but not when leaned.
  • 2 0
 @briain: 5dev and ignite both make cranks shorter than 165, but they're not inexpensive.
  • 6 0
 @hardtailparty: loving my 5 Devs and went with 165mm because of your awesome post on crank lengths!
  • 1 0
 This is what I was thinking. @ak-77:
  • 3 0
 @hardtailparty: Canfield makes a solid-looking crankset that goes down to 150 and cost $200. Heck, they even link to your video on their product page! canfieldbikes.com/products/canfield-bikes-am-dh-cranks
  • 2 0
 @hardtailparty: the 5devs are gorgeous but really not cheap when I have to import them to Ireland. Rotor supposedly make cranks down to 155mm but their quite hard to find and just to be extra difficult I'd like to keep my 24mm axle because Shimano BB are about €15 and last 12-18months without issue
  • 2 1
 @hamncheez: but there is. Longer stroke means broader torque curve. You can stay "on top" of a gear longer. Period.
  • 2 1
 @ak-77: Agreed and longer cranks offer more stable stance. Bringing feet closer together really just shortens stance. not as stable unless you’re quite short-legged
  • 3 0
 @emptybe-er: What I never understand about crank lengths is the short range of lengths available. If I go to a clothing store, I can find jeans in 28-36" lengths commonly available. If crank length makes a noticeable bio-mechanical difference you would also expect them to be common in 140-180mm sizes or so. I personally think that the human body can easily adapt to different lengths of crank and the efficiency difference is small, unless you go extreme. I do notice that most bikes for small kids have way too long cranks.
  • 1 0
 @ak-77: theres some pretty interesting research about crank length out there and it turns out that you are correct, until you get to the extremes (like 200mm or something down near 130/140mm) it doesn't make a appreciable difference as long as you can adjust the gearing to compensate.

If you go to a shorter crank length your natural cadence will raise and vice versa for longer cranks.
  • 2 0
 @mtmc99: Exactly. There is some data that while a higher cadence won't make you climb faster, it will help you recover faster for the next ride. It also reduced knee pain and injury.
  • 2 3
 @emptybe-er: Longer cranks do not offer a more stable stance. It doesn't matter how long the crank arms are because they pivot. Motos aren't "unstable" for having pegs with a arm length of 0
  • 1 1
 @hamncheez: I’m referring to more stability/ability with front to back weight shifts. On a bicycle, weight shifts need to be much more precise because they are much more critical than 230lb motorized machine. MX bikes also have a peg center to center of 18-20” or so and the wider stance creates stability. But only side to side. So anyway, if you tried to manual an mtb with footpegs it would be noticeabley more difficult (forward and backward shifting via hips/legs) and gets easier the longer your cranks are from the bb, until it’s too far.. But we're talking pretty far. It’s really the only way to have front to back stability, longer stance.
  • 1 1
 @emptybe-er: completely disagree.
  • 1 0
 But the longer you go, the less playful. It’s really preference, and more about leg length. I’m tall and would like 180 for trail if it weren’t for frame/ground clearance. But I don’t spin and find a 52t cassette unacceptable so there’s that.
  • 1 1
 @hamncheez: If I remember correctly, you also don’t mind unreasonably high top tubes. I find them atrocious.
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: you think to manual with pegs wouldn’t be harder? Any supporting argument?
  • 1 0
 even with the pegs placed where the rearward pedal is, balancing and bringing up the manual would be harder.
  • 1 0
 @emptybe-er: ? I love low top tubes

Dude, the pedals + cranks pivot around the BB. It makes very little difference. Otherwise trials, DH, dirt jumpers, etc would all use longer cranks, but they use shorter ones.
  • 2 0
 @melanthius: thanks for the video link.

@hardtailparty: GREAT video! I appreciate the easy to understand and relatable narration. I put 165’s on my latest build, but that was coming off 170’s. I would have gone shorter had I known they were available. Looks like I’ll have to try some 155’s.
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: Dude, pivoting bb has no effect on more leverage from longer cranks. The pedals remain fixed distance apart. A lot of trials riders only ride shorter 160-165 cranks on 20” and ride 175 for 26”. Smaller bike = smaller weight shifts = less leverage required. DH, short cranks are about rpm and ground clearance. DJ, for spinning and getting feet back on easier.. and XC? How many xc riders do you see running shorter than 175? Are you throwing 3’s or smacking pedals often enough on your long wb trail bike to make shorter cranks make sense?
A longer legged boxer needs a longer stance to transfer power and have a stable platform.. but I’ve yet to see even the shortest boxer punch with feet right next to each other.
  • 1 0
 @hamncheez: Sorry I think I had you confused with a guy that liked riding a coilair (highest top tube ever) and also designed/made a single pivot frame with room for a top tube mounted water bottle (unreasonably high if you have room for that imo)
  • 9 0
 Let’s see the purple bike.
  • 9 1
 Stupid crazy expensive cranks... but what bike is that?
  • 5 0
 I think it's Actofive's P-Train, would make sense to show off their new crank on their bike.
www.actofive.com/en/p-train
  • 6 1
 I'm German but I look at all the "German engineering" and I am embarrassed. Reminds me of my fancy, award winning design, BMC Trail fox sitting in the garage with a bunch of other junk.
  • 5 1
 I think there is some confusion about 7075 here. RaceFace, Shimano and almost everyone else uses 6000 series aluminium in their cranks. Shimano’s HollowTech cranks are made in two forged halves in 6000 series and welded together. Even forged 6000 series will have almost half the tensile strength of tempered 7075. Most 7075 used in parts like this are tempered: ie 7075-T6 or 7075-T651. This tempering yields only slightly less strength than forging. 6061-T6 tensile strength is 310 MPa, 7075-T651 tensile strength is 510 MPa. So these cranks have a much higher tensile strength than a forged 6000 series crank and are going to be lighter as well as they are hollow.

Side note: Hope uses forged 7150, which is even stronger than 7075. But these ActoFive cranks are even lighter than the Hopes. 475g vs 563g for the Hopes.
  • 5 0
 All RaceFace’s higher end aluminum cranks are all 7050. Turbine, Atlas, even the Aeffect R (sub $200 CAD).

They clearly list the materials for each arm set on their website.
  • 1 0
 Epoxy bonded, not welded.
  • 3 0
 Boutique stuff = boutique prices. It’s part of the deal. There are plenty of options out there that are less money to fit whatever your budget is, but I’m always stoked to see more options. Some parts are just bike jewelry - it’s not always about better function or weight. Plus, who wants to show up at the dance wearing the same stuff as everybody else anyway?
  • 7 2
 Super cool but....
Unite makes very similar cranks at £200
uniteco.bike/shop/components/crankset/crankset-29mm-axle-dub-compatible
  • 1 0
 Pinned TV had a good podcast with the guy behind Unite recently. Sounds like he knows his stuff.
  • 1 0
 Weren’t they meant to ship a few months ago and still no sign of them actually existing?
  • 1 0
 @justanotherusername: that's explained in the link above Wink
  • 1 0
 @wake-n-rake: bullshit - have you read the link above - says they ship end of may….
  • 1 0
 @wake-n-rake: oh, also says shipping end of July…. Suppose it depends on which one you decide to read in that case.
  • 3 0
 Since no one has anything nice to say, I'll add that I'd like that 163 Q factor. Not something everyone would nec. need or prefer. But for a few of us, that reduced Q is nice to see since offerings have been on a wider trend these day.
  • 3 0
 Bonding aluminium cranks hasn’t been working out so well for Shimano DuraAce and Ultegra of late. Great idea in principle but once moisture gets inside it seems to be a case of how long before corrosion sets in and they get pulled apart.
  • 8 3
 Low centre of gravity? Surly long cranks would space out your legs more meaning your body’s closer to the floor
  • 1 3
 that's not what they meant. and you know that
  • 5 0
 And when you switch to shorter cranks you need to raise your saddle height, raising your seated COM. As a short legged rider I am in favor of shorter cranks, but this "reason" is a red herring. Unless they are trying to say, "we like bikes with lower BB, these cranks help you get less pedal strikes" which is something I'd understand.

Or Pick a crank length and be a d!ck about it?
  • 1 0
 @BigHerm: do people care about seated COM tho?
  • 2 0
 @senorbanana: I mean kinda? Feeling on vs in the bike is a thing. IME it changed the fore/aft balance and required different bar height to get weight off hands and allow easier front wheel lifts.
  • 2 0
 I didn't know Surly made cranks!
  • 1 0
 Not even that. Lean angle? Unless you drop your inside pedal, the lean angle is actually less with shorter arms if everything else stays the same.
  • 1 0
 @mildsauce91: They used to. (The OD)
  • 6 0
 The color on that bike is amazing.
  • 1 2
 Until it's scratched due to a wreck.
  • 1 0
 @zerort: all bikes get scratched, that doesn't make them not beautiful.
  • 4 2
 The first aluminium cranks introduced in 1933....the chain and cog well before this....to the cycle industry I salute you.......for managing to re-brand tart up and (barely) engineer and still sell to punters for inflated prices beyond belief......the above product being a prime example.....
  • 6 0
 I was looking at that nice purply frame - that was a nice work of art Big Grin
  • 1 0
 Soo, should we expect them to fail like shimano 105/ultegra ?
Some people say that SLX is bombproof or something, but the older model (10 speed gen) snap in 2. DS crank arm snaps in 2 at the S. My co-worker snapped his DS crank, no crashes, urban riding. I sold mine 1 year after, and after few months, the guy sent me picture of the snapped crankarm. DS crank snapped at the S. You can find lots of pictures in google. Oh.. that was not the topic here...

Yea, pretty expensive, dont like the "bonded" part, ee-Wings please. (Said the guy with 7100 and 8000) cranks on his bikes Big Grin
  • 2 1
 "With a claimed weight of 475g without a chainring and a price of 690 EUR (621 Euros for pre-orders), you can get a slightly better cost-to-weight ratio elsewhere (a SRAM X01 carbon crank weighs 415g and retails for €610), but the weight is still impressive for aluminium and those aesthetics are unique."

FSA KFX. 520g incl ring, 310eu. Better cost to weight, equally "unique" aesthetics.
  • 1 0
 And I’m pretty sure X01 cranksets are about $300… this is a weird paragraph.

Edit: OK they’re $377, but regularly available for $300.
  • 4 0
 Take 457 extra tool passes, double the price. Mountain bikes will buy them.
  • 3 1
 I find it hard to justify the cost of high end aluminum cranks after bending so many cranks over the years. Especially when eeWings aren't much more expensive but far more durable than either carbon or aluminum cranks.
  • 2 0
 I'm more interested in hearing how that bike in the photo rides with the EXT Storia and the Cane Creek progressive coil. Been thinking about doing something similar with my Druid.
  • 2 0
 Yea we need a review of that bike
  • 1 0
 @grippisgripper: fwiw, pb did a review of an earlier version of this bike:

www.pinkbike.com/news/field-test-actofive-p-train-not-your-typical-trail-bike.html
  • 3 0
 lol. at this price point may as well getcha self some eewings. they are so choice.
  • 4 0
 Ya Cranks but, No Cranks
  • 1 1
 I recently spoke with a local bike retailer in the Greater Van - they'd asked for ~40 bikes from a CDN supplier, and received 4. Covid, supply shortages etc.

I guess many companies are deciding to weather the storm and keep their focus narrow (IE frames, plus entire bike sales), instead of getting into component production. But I'd like to see them branch off and consider 3D metal printing for instance. Expensive capital but it's an emerging tech.

I have zero expertise in this area, but a quick search shows Ford has dabbled in this:

www.exone.com/en-US/Ford-and-ExOne-Achieve-Scientific-Breakthrough
  • 1 0
 "and along with the SRAM-style integrated crank puller, means removing and installing the crank arms or chainring requires no special tools." No special tools, but a few new allen keys every now and then...
  • 3 1
 Hmm ain't that how hollowtech are built, I'll take xtr for half the price or XT for a third.
  • 1 0
 I thought shimano hollow cranks were made by forging an aluminum tube, but I could be wrong.

There's also this patent I found, which sounds crazy... idk if they actually use this method though. AFAIK they don't cast them.
patents.google.com/patent/US6145184A/en
  • 1 0
 @bkm303: I was really just referring to the bonding of two shells. Not sure how Shimano makes the shells.
  • 3 1
 the look is very uninspired. i'd prefer 5dev or ingrid if id spend that much money on cranks and save the weight elsewhere
  • 3 2
 That outer piece that your foot is attached to is definitely not going to come unbonded.
Definitely not...https://www.bikeradar.com/features/shimano-crank-failure/
  • 1 0
 Yeah the idea of them being bonded sounds sketchy to me. I know it's *probably* totally fine, as long as they made some big ass lapping faces for the bond line (like in this video from Hope - www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHU3EaAPUR4). But I also don't see those big overlapping faces in any of these shots. It kinda just looks like they're bonding around the perimeter of the clamshell which sounds... bad. At least the Hope design puts the shear plane perpendicular to the main forces from the pedal.
  • 3 0
 I'm awed by the purple bike, what is that??!!!
  • 1 0
 ActoFive P-Train
  • 2 0
 I feel like I am looking at a Hope Evo crankset in silver but at 3x the price!
  • 2 0
 Far too many machining marks in there to be classed as a work out art. Which is usual coming from that part of the world.
  • 1 0
 i wondered what the big cusp down the middle was actually even doing there, premium priced ridge
  • 1 0
 Yeah idk, from the times their bike has been featured on PB people seem to have a huge hard on for tool marks. I don't get it. Also there is no effing way I would ride a clamshell-bonded Al frame. Crazy.
  • 2 0
 They get 2 thumbs up for using an existing standard (looking at you e13) from one of the big players so parts are available.
  • 1 0
 Make a thing, price it 100 bucks, add a MTB to its name... triple the price to 300 bucks. Add "gErMAn EngenEERing" tag and you can sell it for 700 bucks Big Grin
  • 1 0
 Crank bro’s had cranks like this and they would tend to split after a few rides. They had stainless steel on one side and aluminum on the inner side.
  • 3 0
 lol
  • 1 0
 An X01 eagle dub crankset with chainring is $377 MSRP where tf you buying those for 610 euros?
  • 2 0
 @sebStott what is the bike those cranks are on?
  • 4 0
 P-Train
  • 2 0
 @lightone: that really looks like carbon from the picture, but I guess that is very clean alloy then
  • 2 0
 @lightone: Thats one beautiful frame
  • 2 0
 Basically shimano wannabe?
  • 2 4
 Is this price the result of Germany's renewable obsession and thus high prices? The destruction of 1000 year old forests at the hands of transmission and mega battery factories of the new energy disruption? Or the recent and forward based current energy mix including suicidal reliance on Russian gas?

Regardless, the future of these cranks based on unrealistic prices passed on to customers is a reflection on where the former economic powerhouse of Germany is heading on the wold stage. Expensive, irrelevant and low demand for output.

Good luck for the future.
  • 2 0
 Hollowgram 2 decades later. KFX 2 years later. Capo @ 2x price. Sweet.
  • 1 0
 Not a fan of the roughed in look, especially those unfinished peaks down the centreline.
  • 1 1
 Why would anyone want a high risk crank made from 2 peices when a crank made from 1 is cheaper, looks the same and has years of proven suceess behind it. (Hope obvs)
  • 1 0
 Hope make a 2 piece bonded crank though - check yourself.
  • 1 0
 Hideous price point and why only for SRAM Dub? FFS
  • 1 0
 So you can spend all of your money on new BB. Every year. Or twice a year ?
  • 3 1
 pretty bland looking
  • 1 0
 I just came by to read the comments on the 3 bolt pattern theory.
  • 1 0
 Two-tone looks really good
  • 3 3
 Just gonna drop this here, you know, for research purposes
www.aliexpress.com/item/2251832831874303.html
  • 1 1
 Without any cross bracing on the backside those will just twist outward if you’re a big human sending. Pedals won’t ever be level again.
  • 4 1
 Our willingness to jump all over cheap knock off Chinese crap makes me so f'ing depressed. This shit is churned out in massive CNC mill factories under shitty conditions with no auditing for employee welfare, no quality control on the parts, and no investment in design. It's just the gradual greasy downward slope into all our products being worse as genuine design and manufacture companies are forced to compete with the shit pouring out of the gutters and onto the streets.
  • 1 0
 @L0rdTom: our? No, maybe society as a majority, but not in its entirety, there's still plenty of people who appreciate quality over price.
  • 1 0
 Bonded with what! Epoxy or friction welded?
  • 3 0
 Epoxy. Same as lots of things, shimano hollowtech cranks, Pole machines/staminas, some aircraft...
  • 1 0
 @inked-up-metalhead: polaris snowmobiles
  • 2 1
 Such an innovative idea to make the cavity hollow!
  • 1 0
 My eeWings beg to differ.
  • 1 0
 Low long before these end up on "Leapin Levy's" XC bike?
  • 1 0
 I like how they look, but the price is just too much
  • 1 0
 As light as EE Wings...look as good too
  • 2 0
 What bike is that?
  • 1 0
 For that price just get the Ewing titanium cranks.
  • 1 0
 My raceface turbine crank is fine thank you
  • 1 0
 WHICH make of bike are the cranks on.
  • 1 0
 Actofive P Train, also fully CNC machined
  • 1 0
 @HumbdiDumbdi: Thanks mate
  • 1 0
 Really expensive version of the Cannondale Hollowgram crank?
  • 1 0
 Won’t look like that after a few rides over here.
  • 1 1
 Gonna take a LOT to tempt me away from good ol shimano hollowtech pinch bolt desighn
  • 1 0
 XTRs are lighter, cheaper and cold forged.
  • 1 0
 To the trained eye, that machining work looks pretty bad.
  • 1 0
 Truvativ Stylo, $107 why pay more
  • 1 0
 ok, The cranks are cool, but WHAT BIKE IS THAT, it's so sexy looking!
  • 2 1
 Yank me crank me
  • 1 2
 Just like 5dev cranks but without anything to make them special. And more expensive?
  • 2 2
 Apart from they are hollow bonded construction and not a solid arm?
  • 1 2
 They aren't f%$k ugly like the 5dev cranks at least even if they are stupid expensive.
  • 1 0
 @93EXCivic: angry
  • 1 1
 No pinch bolt interface no care
  • 2 2
 I m buying Said no one
  • 1 2
 Outside magazine-
"If it's German we love it."
  • 1 1
 Hope cranks FTW.
  • 2 3
 no 175 no care
  • 2 5
 just another low pivot idler on the market







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