First Look: Ghost's Lightweight Riot Path eMTB & Riot AM
The German-based brand, Ghost Bikes, isn’t a common name you’ll see in North America, but we did include the previous version of their trail bike in the Field Test last autumn. For the 2023 lineup, Ghost have revised the Riot Trail/AM and have built a Riot lookalike eMTB, aptly named the Path Riot that uses the slim packaging of the Fazua branded motor.
Ghost was able to sneak the no holds barred Path Riot in under the 18-kilogram (39.7 lb) mark with the lightweight motor by utilizing carbon-only frame models. The line that previously distinguished the standard and motor-assisted bike segments is blurring quickly. At the same time, the price points are not, because the Path Riot LTD build will cost an even 10,000€, versus the top end, un-assisted Riot build which is nearly half that amount at 5,599€. The non-motorized versions weighs in at 2.5 kg (5.5 lb) less than its electric counterpart.
Ghost was able to sneak the no holds barred Path Riot in under the 18-kilogram (39.7 lb) mark with the lightweight motor by utilizing carbon-only frame models. The line that previously distinguished the standard and motor-assisted bike segments is blurring quickly. At the same time, the price points are not, because the Path Riot LTD build will cost an even 10,000€, versus the top end, un-assisted Riot build which is nearly half that amount at 5,599€. The non-motorized versions weighs in at 2.5 kg (5.5 lb) less than its electric counterpart.
Path Riot CF Details
• Intended use: Trail riding
• Travel: 140mm rear, 160mm front
• Frame material: carbon fiber
• Motor/battery: Fazua Ride 60
• Wheels: 29"
• Sizes: S, M, L, XL
• Reach: 435 - 522mm
• Chainstays: 446 (S-M), 455 (L-XL)
• Weight: 17.5 - 19.8 kg / 38.6 - 43.6 lb
• Price: 7,000 - 10,000 €
• ghost-bikes.com
• Intended use: Trail riding
• Travel: 140mm rear, 160mm front
• Frame material: carbon fiber
• Motor/battery: Fazua Ride 60
• Wheels: 29"
• Sizes: S, M, L, XL
• Reach: 435 - 522mm
• Chainstays: 446 (S-M), 455 (L-XL)
• Weight: 17.5 - 19.8 kg / 38.6 - 43.6 lb
• Price: 7,000 - 10,000 €
• ghost-bikes.com
Path Riot Frame and Motor Details
Spurred on by the growing “SL-style” e-bike segment, the Path Riot uses Fazua's motor and battery, like Pivot’s recently launched Shuttle SL and Transition's upcoming Relay. Distinguishing the Path Riot from the standard Riot is tricky at a glance, not only due to the sleek drive system, but because they use the same dual-link suspension design and also have identical geometry.
The minimalist motor provides 60Nm of torque, the same amount as the Orbea Rise that unofficially kicked off this trend. Clearly, the carbon-only frame construction helped to keep the weight down to just 17.5 kg. Ghost was able to recess a heads-up display into the top tube and reduce the chances of damaging the screen.
All of the Path Riots use the integrated Eightpins dropper post, requiring a frame built specifically for the mounting style. The amount of drop from the hydraulically actuated dropper post can be adjusted between 141-212mm by flicking a switch near the saddle rail clamp.
Path Riot Spec
The nomenclature of Ghost's bikes is a bit clumsy, but basically there is one frame and two types of build kits: one with a 150mm travel fork and those with burlier 160mm options. The fork lengths are what set the head tube angles of each build apart. At either end of the price spectrum, you have the Advanced and Full Party builds with the longer travel Fox 38s and in the middle is the lighter duty LTD build.
For 7,000€ the Advanced build kit gives you a Fox 38 Performance GRIP fork and a Float X2 shock with low speed adjustments. Rounding out the rest of the specifications is a unique mix of parts. Shimano XT/SLX shifting, while WTB takes care of the rims that are laced to DT Swiss 370 Classic hubs and topped off with Maxxis EXO+/DoubleDown tires.
On the 10,000€ LTD kit, the components are quite a bit fancier with DT Swiss XMC 1200 carbon wheels and a lighter suspension package consisting of that 150mm-travel Fox 36 and Float X, both in the Factory Kashima coated finish.
The Path Riot Full Party reverts the suspension to acquire more muscle in the form of a 160mm Fox 38 and Float X2 Factory. Rolling on alloy rims, the Syntace W33i wheelset does the trick to tally the pricing to 8,500€.
On all of the Path Riot builds, Ghost specs Rotor alloy cranks to mate to the Fazua motor spindle and choose Formula Cura 4 brakes with 203mm rotors front and rear across the board.
Ghost Path Riot Advanced - 7,000 EUR
Ghost Path Riot Full Party - 8,500 EUR
Ghost Path Riot LTD - 10,000 EUR
The Ghost Riot Trail and Path Riot LTD eMTB share the same geometry and use 150mm forks. The longer travel Riot AM and Path Riot Pro/Full Party bikes use the same frame as the later bunch, but come equipped with a burlier 160mm fork to alter the frame angles.
Geometry
Let's get this one out of the way first. The Path Riot eMTB copied and pasted the geometry from the unassisted Riot. They are nearly identical, plus or minus a millimeter here and there due to spec changes. Ghost calls it "Super fit". What's a more fitting label to slap on your bike's geometry?
Regardless, there are four sizes to choose from in the Path Riot series ranging from a reach of 435mm on the small size, all the way up to 522mm on the XL. These numbers are a touch longer than most brands, following the longer, lower, slacker trend. However, if you did choose the LTD model, the reach will increase by 5mm due to the shorter 150mm fork. As mentioned, this will increase the head tube angle from 63.5 to 64-degrees.
Two sets of chainstays are used at the rear end of the bike in consideration for the range of rider heights. Size small and medium frames use moderately long 446mm chainstays, whereas the two larger size frames' rear centers grow to 455mm. There were no details on whether or not the change in kinematics or travel is accounted for due to the longer swing-arm, but we've reached out to inquire about that possibility.
Riot Trail/AM CF
When we tested the Ghost Riot AM last it was an all-aluminum affair and weighed far too much for a 140mm travel bike. The dual-link suspension design stays, but gone is the coil sprung shock and hefty frame. Now, not only are the frame's front and rear triangles built from carbon, but the geometry has seen massive revisions too. The lightest build weighs in at 15.5 kg and the head tube angle now kicks back to a slack 64-degrees.
Although the intentions of the Riot Trail and AM are almost a mirror image of the Path Riot eMTB, the price is nearly half that of the electrified version. Whether that motor is worth the extra thousands of euros is another question, but it seems like a deal in comparison considering the component list is nearly a copy as well.
Although the intentions of the Riot Trail and AM are almost a mirror image of the Path Riot eMTB, the price is nearly half that of the electrified version. Whether that motor is worth the extra thousands of euros is another question, but it seems like a deal in comparison considering the component list is nearly a copy as well.
Riot Trail/AM CF Details
• Intended use: Trail/Enduro riding
• Travel: 140mm rear, 150mm (Trail) / 160 (AM) front
• Frame material: carbon fiber
• Wheels: 29"
• Sizes: S, M, L, XL
• Reach: 440 - 527mm
• Chainstays: 446 (S-M), 455 (L-XL)
• Weight: 15.5 kg / 34.2 lb (Full Party build)
• Price: 4,999 - 5,599 €
• ghost-bikes.com
• Intended use: Trail/Enduro riding
• Travel: 140mm rear, 150mm (Trail) / 160 (AM) front
• Frame material: carbon fiber
• Wheels: 29"
• Sizes: S, M, L, XL
• Reach: 440 - 527mm
• Chainstays: 446 (S-M), 455 (L-XL)
• Weight: 15.5 kg / 34.2 lb (Full Party build)
• Price: 4,999 - 5,599 €
• ghost-bikes.com
Frame Details
Aside from the absence of the motor, the Riot Trail and AM mimic the electrified version. The full carbon frame uses the dual-link layout with 140mm of travel and features the Eightpins dropper. Even the geometry is identical, sparing a gnat's whisker due to some component variations. We've come to expect standard equipment like internally routed housing, top tube accessory mounts, and plenty of rubber to protect against chainslap.
Similarly to the Path Riot, Ghost has chosen to avoid the use of flip chips here. The geometry is tweaked by the fork travel that separates the bikes into two categories - Trail at 150mm, and a 160mm length for the AM spec.
Spec
Ghost Riot Trail Pro: 4,999 EUR - RockShox Lyrik Select 150mm and Super Deluxe Select+ RT Air, Shimano XT/SLX/Deore drivetrain, WTB rims/DT Swiss 370 hubs, Formula Cura 4 Brakes, Maxxis EXO+/DD tires.
Ghost Riot Trail Full Party: 5,499 EUR - Fox Factory 36 150mm and Float X, Shimano XT/SLX/Deore drivetrain, Syntace V30 wheels, Formula Cura 4 Brakes, Maxxis EXO+/DD tires.
Ghost Riot AM Pro: 4,999 EUR - RockShox ZEB 160mm Base and Super Deluxe Select+ RT Air, Shimano XT/SLX/Deore drivetrain, WTB rims/DT Swiss 370 hubs, Formula Cura 4 Brakes, Maxxis EXO+/DD tires.
Ghost Riot AM Full Party: 5,599 EUR- Fox Factory 38 160mm and Float X2, Shimano XT/SLX/Deore drivetrain, Syntace V30 wheels, Formula Cura 4 Brakes, Maxxis EXO+/DD tires.
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Interesting.
This arrangement is quite sensitive to small deviations due to the position and short design of the levers. How accurate was your geometry model on which your analysis was based? Even minor deviations have an enormous influence on the leverage ratio and the antisquat curves. Thx.
Thx. Your kinematic analysis and especially your comment under your blog reads extremely positive and promising. Your assessment that the kinematic is ideally suited for natural trails and implements the benefit of the upward axle path of high pivot bikes without the need of an idler pulley shows how unique the approach might be. The correct setting seems crucial here, precisely because of the significantly rising antisquat curves. Have you ever ridden a bike with Traction-Link yourself?
Ghost has left my list of favourites and gone to "wow, why would I ever buy these"
Go back some time and they were an innovative bike company that seemingly valued high-quality engineering and made kick-ass bikes. They were among the early adopters of 29" and 27.5" wheels, X12 through-axles, dropper posts and 1X drivtrains. They also had a super interesting approach to kinematics, with extremely low leverage ratios and smooth curves across the board. They had (relatively) modern geometry before modern geometry even was a thing. They even had a (kinda) long and slack DH bike with high-pivot suspension and an idler. In 2012.
And look at them now. Making an overpriced carbon trail bike with middle-of-the-road geometry and no outstanding design features to speak of.
can not be compared, because it has nothing to do with the common geometries. Ghost is one of the very few brands that integrate the dropper seatpost of Eightpins and thus depending on the installed Eightpins dropper post, frames allow up to 228mm stroke in L and even 248mm stroke in XL. Ghost do not communicate that properly at all…
www.eightpins.com/en/isps/Das
As an average end-user, I feel a lot of "innovation" these days translates into how good a "package" a product manager can assemble, as it feels like no one is making a truly poor frame anymore. And personally, I'm not into the integrated seatpost as I read that as "proprietary" and you only have to be in a shop for a short while to start hating on "proprietary" (tools, parts, service, whatever).
Sorry, I messed up my comment with one hand on my smartphone by putting it under yours, so my comment didn't really match your post. You caught it well though!
I understand your point of view. I understand your approach, much of what is sold to us as innovation (downhill meets crosscountry meets...) completely misses the needs. Less is more sounds simple, but first we have to do our homework to know what's good for us.
It's cool to hear that the ROKET served you well, bikes like that are rare these days. Would be a nice base for a proper, "upcycled" gravel bike
By the way, the seatpost is not proprietary, you can install any other 34.9mm seatpost in those frames.
But yeah you're right, two people I know have Cube bikes but they are the only ones I ever saw and they bought it from Europe. Never saw a Ghost bike in real life except in a MEC shop which used to sell a couple of models.
Shame about MEC's situation now, and some of their in-house bikes seemed like solid options if you're a commuter/tourer. They also get a high five for being able to recycle their logo.
linkagedesign.blogspot.com/2022/09/ghost-path-riot-2023.html
180% anti squat at max travel (double similar bikes)
sharply increasing pedal kickback deep in travel
regressive-linear kinematic in the midstroke
forward->rearward axle path
Linear to progressive leverage rates work extremely well on technical natural terrain (99% of what people usually ride) as it creates a really responsive beginning to midstroke section. That's not only very comfortable but also increases traction. For that reason it's also very benefitial for E-Bikes in particular. This system should also have a very supportive feel in the midstroke and deep in the travel as the leverage rate drops quickly and even has enough end-stroke progression to work well with a coil.
"Pedal kickback" is pretty much not a thing. It doesn't exist, at least not in the way people think. There's a really good study by the University of Pforzheim in which Gerth et al have shown that above a (relatively low) critical velocity, pedal kickback has next to no effects on the suspension system. link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12283-019-0315-4
180% anti-squat isn't a problem but a benefit, for the afformentioned reason. Also, no one pedals the bike that deep in the travel anyways.
If you don't believe me, maybe you believe Antonio, who runs the blog you cited, or Stefan, who runs the Insanity of Gravity blog. They both commented (under the article you cited) on their reasons why they really like Ghosts' approach to geometry.
Pedal kickback is a thing. If you've ever ridden a bike with low PK, either through an idler or O-chain, the amount of feedback to the feet on repeated hits is dramatically less compared to a similar travel/suspension design. Myself and many other riders don't care what some armchair engineers say to try and claim it doesn't exist - the feeling is demonstrably there. Less PK leads to the bike feeling calmer in fast rough sections of trail.
180% anti-squat deep in travel will feel terrible. That will manifest as the chain tension creating a large amount of pedal kick on deep compressions. Again, not at all a trait that is desired enduro bikes (ebike or otherwise).
Geometry is different than kinematics. Most bikes being released these days share very similar geometry, so the kinematics become hugely influential on whether they feel good to ride.
The only way this could want to "sit deep in its travel" is if you set it up wrong - which Mike Kazimer and Alicia Legget did when reviewing the Riot Trail. They were on a size Medium which Ghost deems too small for both of them. And thus the bike came with too soft of a spring because Ghost matches the spring rate to the size. Their bike had too soft of a spring rate and that's why the kinematics felt off.
Regarding pedal kickback you must be imagining things. You say you can feel PK and you don't care about the science. Well, tell you what. The science doesn't care about your feelings either. If anything, your feelings are demonstrably false.
And calling people armchair engineers? Look whos talking. Guess what. I for one demo'd the alloy version of the Riot EN, which has practically the same kinematics. And sure enough, it doesn't behave anything close to what you described, because mine was set up correct. Who's the armchair engineer now.
Anyway, in the case of this Ghost....Whats the best way to increase the likelihood of the chain being under tension during impacts? Add a motor... 180%AS at full travel is a terrible idea, no matter how you look at it. Especially on an e-bike.
Add to that, crazy lever rate curves always feel like shit. They may make sense on paper, but on the trail fairly linear curves are best as this provides the most predictable and intuitive amount of feedback, rather than giving you a wildly different response depending on where you were in the travel when you hit a bump.
See the Ghost XC team being sponsored by ROCKSHOX for reference
Seat tube length can not be compared, because those frames have nothing to do with the common geometries we usually compare and know. Ghost is one of the very few brands that integrate the dropper seatpost of Eightpins from Austria and thus depending on the installed Eightpins dropper post, frames allow up to 228mm stroke in L and even 248mm stroke in XL. That’s what matters. Ghost do not communicate that properly at all…
www.eightpins.com/en/isps