First Look: Marin's All-New Rift Zone E

 Yup, people moan about Specialized motor reliability, but if a motor fails, there are shops who will swap it out in 1.5hrs whilst you wait in a cafe near by…

Would never buy another Shimano motor until they have this sort of support

 Just remember your legs are self regenerating, serviceable and and can be extended with a range of different colour booties made to measure which protect their ends from rock strikes.

 @rich-2000: or if your like my specialized dealer they have a cafe inside haha

 What are you guys doing to kill these motors?

Not bashing, just genuinely curious.

 I have a solution to these motor failure woes…

 @browner: like a lizards tail?

 @Notmeatall: I had a drive side bearing failure at around 1500km/2yrs on my E-8000. I have a Norco Bigfoot VLT. Most of those km's were commuting, I suspect water ingress was the main culprit.

 @hardtailhowie: whaaaat, wheres your dealer at?

 @no-good-ideas: an engine with fire inside

 That's why I'm waiting for a coal-burning bike motor.

 I'm not on eMTB and no plans to now but I do find the allure of 2-4 times the miles and number of downhills in a day pretty strong.

Still - there are riders aging out or with injuries / heart conditions who can still play the game w/ ebikes. Check out the Singletracks (USA) mtb podcast from Feb 14 w/ Lennard Zinn - he wrote "Haywire Heart" which goes in depth on endurance / super atheletes and research about heart conditions they've developed from pushing too hard vs. genetics - and how to stay athletic once you know this. it. Its not a snowflake book & he's helped keep tons of people in the game w/ ebikes that would otherwise just be sitting on their asses.

Point being - not all riders are you or me, but if ebikes keep us riding w/ our parents or injuried buddies - why the hell not? If you don't like ebikes - you don't have to ride them or bust on people who do for whatever reason...its not gonna make anyone say "you know, I really shouldn't ride one because some guy said things". They make a lot of sense for many riders - even just having fun. I don't see what the gate-keeping is all about...even kooks can be trained. Lighten up, its just bikes.

 This might be a Euro issue... In Southern California i get replacement warranty motors in max 48 hours.

 @Notmeatall:

My ep8 had a sprag clutch failure at around 600mi.

 @suspended-flesh: m.youtube.com/watch?v=6hUMXWNcwx4&pp=ygUVU3RlYW0gcG93ZXJlZCBiaWN5Y2xl
Why wait?

 @browner: wait, if you cut your legs off they regenerate? Are you part salamander?

 @browner: your legs maybe. Some of us have injuries.

 @rich-2000: Is there one like this near Sheffield? Dropped mine in this morning with a motor issue after 6months and 1500km and no word yet on how long it's going to be... :-(

 @thechunderdownunder: In the event of accidental damage, crash or even force majeure our government provides a warranty/ replacement service as necessary though granted the plastic, titanium or wooden replacement is a slap in the face to fans of the original. *Slap in the face coverage is also included.

 @stationaryisdead: Nice!!

 @Notmeatall: I believe water ingress has been an issue with some motors, but I truly believe it's literal impact on bearings through repeated crank strikes. Newer geo is big on lower bottom bracket height. Not a big issue with crank strikes on a non assisted mountain bike as you can just replace the BB when needed. With emtbs other than Rocky Mountain you have to rebuild or replace the entire motor when that happens. Many companies are specing shorter cranks on their emtbs to alleviate the issue. Other than that, many riders are also replacing their etmb cranks with cranks in the 150-160mm range to avoid crank strikes and costly repairs.

 I call bs. I had a shimano ep8 replaced within a few days last summer. I paid for the labor but it got replaced quickly. It was at a Santa Cruz dealer and not the dealer I got the bike from either. I was very satisfied. Don’t believe all the crap people post here.

 @dupster: There are 3 warehouses for Shimano North America. Irvine California, South Carolina and Peterborough Ontario. I believe the Irvine warehouse is the largest as it is the main receiving hub from the factories in Asia. So if you live close to one of these 3 locations your Shimano experience will be much better than if you live literally anywhere else in NA

 @Notmeatall: from what I've seen eating too many donuts

 @29er1: So all ebikers are heavy in PA - and zero of them do trailwork? Do you really have the facts to support that statement? My YT capra weighs 39 lbs w/ coil & cushcore (dh or dd tires) which is just less than most e-bikes and I weigh 230 so I'd have way more impact than a 130-150 lb rider on my pedal bike...so I don't get to ride?

Ebikes are not allowed in western NC or most east coast (are allowed at bike parks) so I see no need to buy now but Ive been clearing & maintaining trails for 33 yrs and an ebike would give me massive distance & tool carrying ability that I don't have now for maintenance alone. My local trails have a 2500 ft climb to the good stuff so today, I got a total of 7 total mins downhill for 2 hrs climbing - tripling that in the same time on an ebike would be hella more fun, but it's national forest: no ebikes. The more important concern isn't tires on the ground - it's the number of people flying through remote / pristine / wildlife habitat & creeks, and that's actually the big issue, not a riders weight.

I have no clue what yr trails are like but "fat riders who do no work" sounds like there's not actual evidence to support it. To be sure - I"ll be that 90-95% of the skinny riders around me do no work around Pisgah...there are 1000's of people who come here but I've never once seen anyone - no one - cleaning up trails in my area.

 @browner: the wait time for government funded warranty or crash replacement is growing...
Worth noting that they are not user serviceable, and can have significantly decreased performance after even just one service.

 @G-Sport: nearest one to you I know of with one day turnaround is RaceCo cycles

 @Mtn-Goat-13: I have no facts to support my statement that heavy riders riding heavy ebikes for many more hours than they could ride a regular bike causes more trail damage

 that's the same for any e-biker motor.
for bosch and shimano the bearings are all replaceable but diffrent parts like sprokets and axles are never sold.

The only E bikes motors we get whit problems are the tuned engines.
So what is the problem you referring to?

 @rich-2000: Thanks.

 @surly64: Ouch! That's really piss poor sealing. My chain, that is not a bearing, nor has seal agains elements, is doing more than 5000km.

These motors should be able to be maintained by the user. Where are we in that Right to Repair movement?

 @PhoS: That is unfortunate. Sprag clutches are used in a lot of systems, they should have oversized this abuse piece!

Come on shimano, you can do a lot better than this!

 @bctrailblazer68: Doesn't bearing have some sort of impact resistance? It's not like riders can inflict an unbearable amount of load. Except for Jackson Goldstone, that animal.

 @29er1: oh come on, you are sounding like an old vinyl disk that was found in salty water and used to hold a vase.

 @29er1: Point was (and is) its not just an assumption, its a bias. Smaller riders could in theory do more damage by skidding / braking too hard. Ebikers don't necessarily pass over a trail any harder than others (and on DH runs, not much difference at all). Not tryin' to wax on ya, just saying. I find it difficult to believe the studies saying ebikes actually don't have any more difference on trail surface than other bikes - counterintuitive to me, but that seems to be the case. But there's this: say hi to some of these riders and see if they're willing to do some trailwork...ebikes for carrying tools now is major awesome. I could do 3x the miles of clearing / whatever in a day if I could use one in my area.

 @Mtn-Goat-13: I think the only reason ebikes contribute to increased trail damage is simply from more use.. People doing more laps and people who might not be out on a normal bike are hitting the trail on ebikes..

 @lumpy873: I will admit that this was one of my first immediate thoughts years ago (and I don't have a link to all the studies) but - studies are not showing this though these are still ongoing. The studies are showing notable impacts to wildlife, breeding territories, direct impact deaths especially though from just regular bikes and ebikes haven't even been factored into that much yet. I've probably struck 15-20 larger animals just in the past 3-4 years, not even counting small stuff I didn't look closely to hear gettign mashed...doesn't take a motor for that.

There are too many factors involved to just say ebikes or more laps causes more damage - soil / geology type, steepness / slope, direction (N/S/E/W), weather, hot/cold ground level extremes, maintenance intervals - number of riders. In Pisgah Nat'l Forest, ebikes are not legal and there are 100's of riders per day on the main trails. Those trails have some places were 8-10 ft of soils have washed out massive gullies even decades ago from regular bikes. Today better design / runouts / erosion controls / rebuilds have helped fix that so matters less how many tires pass over them. My local goto trails 30 miles away gets 1/100th or less the usage of Pisgah proper - zero club maintenance have many rocky sections that are basically devastated steep hell-runs on south / southwest slopes but virtually none on even steepness north/northwest slopes due to soils / geology / aspect. None of this would really even matter in an area with heavy use that is more rolling or XC terrain (I think).

Just saying - its highly variable, lots of factors, and my two examples of heavy damage (among 100s around here) are fully without ebikes so to just say ebikes damage trails or 'fat riders who don't work" seems inaccurate (imo).

 @rich-2000: buy a normal bike and you don't have this problem.

 @lumpy873: my observation is that those whom use ebikes are not skilled riders...so trail impact on that basis alone is significant. More use too, definitely, but a skilled rider knows how to ride steeps, handle corners (mostly). Another uncalculated cost of progression.......

 @Notmeatall: It took almost a year for the replacement motor to arrive, however it was covered by warranty. The motor was still working strong but it sounded like a severely broken BB. It seems ludicrous to replace the entire drive for want of a bearing.

 @surly64: While I do agree 100% with you, they as a company will need to learn how to solve these issues. The more people moan about this, the better!

 @corerider: Nonsensical though surely many ebikers are not skilled - so then all regular bikers are fully skilled? The contrast doesn't even make sense. Besides - every single pro rides ebikes now for training and big days...so they are ruining trails? Doubt it. Again - none of the studies on this (and this suprises me) show that ebikes are having any more damage / effect than regular bikes and I can tell you for sure there are areas near me (Pisgah which is basically like PNW east, not kidding) has massive damage from regular bikes because ebikes aren't allowed...1000's of tons of erosion, 8-10 ft deep gullies, erosion and more so - major impacts to wlidlife territories, breeding and direct death (not even counting the small species). Not to bust on you - and I don't ebike at all & no plans to, but - "you think" something is true doesn't make it true. I dislike getting buzzed by ebikes as much as you, but that doesn't mean they all suck, have no experience and are destroying the trails.

 Well, in Hungary, FRO Racing has just started the distribution of Marin mountainbikes.

 We have MtBiker shop in Slovakia, they sell Marin bikes, also have spare parts like axles, bushings, bearings, grips, stems and so on.

 Back in the 90s it was distributed in Belgium via the UK (ATB).

Right now I don't know.

 I'd usually agree but their ebike are pretty much in line with the competition, Giant is great bang for your bucks on the eeebs

 @sewer-rat: Pole is actually surprisingly good value, $6,131 for a 180mmF/190mmR, and it can take a dual crown too

 @wburnes: duel crown fork compatibility will be a factor for me when I eventually succumb and get an e-bike. I'd love to put a coil shock and reduced travel Fox 40 on a bike like this, but maybe that's just me.

 @wburnes: That is a great shout, the one thing I like wit an ebike though is the ability to wheel it in to a dealer when (not if) it goes wrong

 YT or Commenical.

 @sewer-rat: The 2022 Marin Alpine E2 is selling online from UK distributors for under £5k, while there are cheaper eebs I don't think they come close to matching the spec of Fox performance elite 38s and a PE DHX2 coil, 4 pot SLX etc. Or at least I couldn't find anything in that league.

 @joebiden: I do not see Commencal as good value anymore. But I might be wrong… thought about a hardtail. But those things are expensive!

 @drjohn: I'd agree, their prices are comparable to other manufacturers now, the 2021 Meta was such good value across the builds, now it's similarly priced to their competitors. I guess nearly all manufacturers do some form of direct sales and that has neutralised prices

 @drjohn: I think Commenical has a great price for its value. Its race proven, durable, and they have great customer support imo.

 @sewer-rat: please explain "eeebs"

 Spelled giant wrong

 @sewer-rat: Vitus E Sommet VR is also a great value at $4500, 170/167mm, 64 HA

 In 2020 I got a YT Decoy Pro 29 for $5500. Carbon, XT, Fox performance, DT Swiss, Code RSC, Maxxis for $800 less than this aluminum E2 Rift Zone. Pandemic is over, would be nice if we could revert to 2020 prices.

 Honestly, I'm eyeing up the Jam2 SL and the first thing I would do is switch out the stupid headset cable routing. It's actually putting me off the bike.

 @redrook: the new one doesnt have any side ports like the old one , so bear that in mind , looks like through the headset or nothing

 @Compositepro: Yeah, the only option is to run it through an Acros ZS56 top cap, but cables are still routed through the headtube. I'd honestly consider just drilling holes in the downtube for the cables but aside from voiding warranty that would probably mess up the cable routing inside. Such a shame they've done such a dumb design.

 @redrook: id have bought one but was a deal breaker for me ended up with a rise instead , mainly because full xtr for 5-5k

 @Compositepro: How do you like the Rise? Concerned it's not quite enough travel/geometry for enduro type trails.

 @redrook: I have a Rise and its not enough. I would recommend against it and my alloy rise weighs the same as my full fat Trek Rail 5

 @redrook: its the pottering about bike really I have a SAM for big daft stuff but really wanted something with less travel SAM is still a lot of bike to be ferrying round our way

Rise is good in that once its run out of power you can still ride it and its not a tank

 I sort of made that mistake, I bought a Norco Range VLT, 180/170mm bike and it made my usual trails almost boring, like bringing a machine gun to a knife fight. But on proper rowdy Terrain the bike eats!

 Wow that’s quite a prediction

 @BermJunky: well unfortunately weight for most bikes goes up and will soon reach 30kg with bigger batteries and lower spec components for the same price. The problem is that many reviews cite unrealistic weights. Real world weight for mid range bosch ebike is 25kg+

 @KalkhoffKiller: there’s no doubt these are heavy. That was the point of my sarcasm. Anyway, I’m sure 25 kg for these isn’t out of the question.

 Rob Rides weighed it at 24 kg. It's heavy for 140mm travel.

 Exactly. Ebikes are basically self-shuttling bikes for big mountains. Should have enduro or DH travel for the way down.

 @LemonadeMoney: 140mm is pretty close to enduro level. Many enduro races have been won on 150mm bikes.

 @LemonadeMoney: not everyone lives near big mountains. my local hill is max 200m above sea level. we dont need a massive battery. or loads of travel. a motor for extra laps is the way forward though.

 @wburnes: You need more travel on an ebike than the equivalent non-ebike.

 @Vwcamperman: My local woods have 30m of elevation, and I've come to the conclusion my ebike is totally unnecessary and a hardtail is much more fun. My ebike is now purely for Peaslake/Wales etc for uplifted riding and downhilling, which it excels at - why would I want 140mm for that?

 @redrook: My 2 bent shock bolts and shock full of volume reducers agree with you... and that's with 160mm

 @LemonadeMoney: just imagine someone having different needs than you and wanting something that fit those needs.

 @wburnes @LemonadeMoney - I'm in Pisgah (western NC/USA), the proclaimed "gnarliest" east coast riding and I gotta say - people are winning the enduros (and fastest Strava segments) now on Tallboys and similar smaller bikes from 120/140 rear and 130-150 front travel. The bigger bikes are just not cutting it maybe b/c the are so less efficient climbing (= being more tired for DH runs that can go 8-10 and in some cases 15-20 mins, 2000-3000 ft elev drops) and far less nimble, though I know this is getting better year.

While there are plenty rough & raw / rocky zones on local trails, that's maybe 1% or less of most of the trails vs. steepness & dirt and honestly it just seems most of the bigger travel is better when there are bigger jumlines & dropoffs, most of which is not in the enduro scene around here (most being national forest and a few bike parks now). Most of the guys (who race, I don't) who made the switch pretty much used to all ride bigass enduros until they tested out the smaller rigs once that geometry got amazing, and their times shot right up. Just sayin'... I think the assumption that bigger travel = wins is now outdated with newer geo on smaller bikes

 @Mtn-Goat-13: Who's talking about racing? I'm talking about riding up and down steep tech stuff I don't know well or at all, and I want a bit of insurance in terms of travel, and an alternative to a van and trailer uplift.

 @PtDiddy: You could say that about every post on here.

 @LemonadeMoney: they make an e-bike for that - the Alpine Trail E

 @LemonadeMoney: I’ll just copy and paste it. Save myself some time.

 @LemonadeMoney: no one needs an e-bike to ride Peaslake

 @LemonadeMoney: L-Monkey above said and I quote "140mm is pretty close to enduro level. Many enduro races have been won on 150mm bikes"...hence my (slightly sidetracked) waxxing. I'm not on an ebike to compare but my point was that all the travel isn't entirely needed (even for full on fun) in just steep terrain now unless its nothing but rough & raw (which is not that fun) esp w/ the better geo / suspension on smaller travel bikes hence the change from bigass uphill buses towing tanks - a lot of (analog/non-ebike) riders in my area are going way smaller for racing and just for fun b/c even the steepest, biggest drops are still 95% loam / dirt and thus the techincal bits are less an issue & not requiring only big travel.

 This thread seems to have been sidetracked into talking about regular bikes' travel, which is irrelevant. E-bikes are very different and, as I said above, require more travel to do the equivalent.

Come and ride where I do on your hardtails and 120mm bikes and you will not enjoy it (or maybe you will, but funnily enough nobody here does it). Hence, this is not enough travel *for me*, and so this bike lost me at 140mm. If you ride in your local woods and don't want more travel cool, but in no way does that undermine what anyone else wants/needs.

As for "needing" an ebike (or any bike for that matter), "need" is an entirely subjective term.

 @LemonadeMoney: "Ebikes are basically self-shuttling bikes for big mountains."

Ebikes are for whatever you want to use them for. Plenty of them being ridden by decent riders all over the place, from trail centres to bike parks.

But hey this is PB, gotta gatekeep right?

 I used our LBS. Good service.

 why not?

 @tacofeet: lack of parts, difficulty with customer service, wrong parts sent after months of waiting and being passed from customer service rep to customer service rep.ot was a bummer for what was otherwise a great bike!

 I hear you never go back…

 Basically a Pike without charger damper Is not a Pike! I am a Pike user and fan from the beginning of that forma!

 The Pike has a lower weight CSU

 But basically... yeah same fork.

 You get the big battery, cushcore, ~64° headangle with a 150mm fork

 All Marins are made in Indonesia as far as I know

 I think they are part of Polygon?? I could be wrong.

 @morphcycles: I think the frames are made in Cambodia or Vietnam.

 @Tormy: the downtube looks exactly the same as my Polygon Mt Bromo

 Speicialized is still offering 350 ish on their SL's, seems in line with them for the "lighter" ebikes

 I don't own an e-bike, but are you saying every Shimano motor is a POS. Are you a hater or a know-it-all?

 @two2pedal: I'd buy a bosch equipped ebike if I was in the market for one.

 Seeing most mfgers us Shimano motors, how about brands with bosch or yamaha that offer alloy frames other than Giant, so I can take a look.

 @two2pedal: scott, Radon Have a look here.

www.bosch-ebike.com/en/lp/emountain-bikes-powered-by-bosch-ebike

 @two2pedal: pole