KMC Announces Their First Cassette

 Appears to be 510 grams for the 11 speed

 @opignonlibre: Looks like I'll get down voted too cause I kind of agree.
Let's face it it's not going to weigh a kilo is it. Probably a few grams here or there different to Sram/Shimano.
As mentioned. If it works better then I'm in.

 @Allen82: Yeah in the same price range the weight difference between brands is small enough to not care. I won't choose a pair of grips over another to gain 10grams.

I guess the downvoters are those guys who fap on dangerholm's instagram

 @opignonlibre: Well, actually, weight adds on with every part you choose. Since cassettes last quite a long time, why not opting for one that's lighter and will last as long? Of course, budget may be a consideration, but based on my own experience of 30+ years of mtb, an X01 or XX1 cassette is the ticket if you want good shifting, long-lasting and lightweight. Furthermore, unless you have an e-bike, you have to pedal your 35 lb steed up the hills, so why not make it lighter if you can?

 R2 Bike has actual weights of the cassettes listed with scale shots included.
10s 11-36 = 431g
10s 11-42 = 532g
11s 11-42 = 561g
11s 11-50 = 742g

 @opignonlibre: In a weight weenie dick size contest do you want a smaller dick to save weight?

 @in2falling: which is the same as a Shimano deore 10 speed cassette so it's a fair weight.

 @opignonlibre: Hahahahaa. WHY BRING DANGERHOLM INTO THIS?!?! Different strokes for different folks.
Weight matters to some folks, and doesn’t for others.
I for one, am brutally jealous of Dangerholms’ quads, others aren’t.
As long as we’re all happy and smiling at the end of each day, and can all agree to hate weight weenie, beanie wearing roadies (jokes)

 From the website, sincerely hope that is a typo. My 11-46T Sunrace is 485g and 11-48T Advent X is 425g.

11 speed:
- 42T - 801g
- 50T - 973g

10 speed:
- 36T - 659g
- 42T - 761g

 The weight was the first thing I was looking for. Just from the pictures and price, it looks heavy. Not something on my radar.

 @warmerdamj: pairs nicely with a 1 ton lifted truck

 @kryten: Wow, that's heavy!!! Just as a comparison with Shimano's 10-spd cassettes in the 36T version:

SLX/HG81 ~ 360g (upper 5-6 cogs are same as XT version, smallest 4 are definitely heavier)
XT - 334g (actual weight brand spanking new)
XTR - 275g (actual weight with zip tie).

I think the KMC version is made similar to the Shimano Deore or lower grade (HG50) versions where the cog plates are not put on the light carrier arms but are full solid disks.

 @siim-s:

Oh, thanks for the actual weight data.

FWIW for all the comments asking if I'm a weight weenie, I'm about as far away from that as you can get. For reference, my bike weighs in at about 40lbs (Aluminum framed Banshee Titan, Coil shock, DH tire up front, EXO+ and insert at the rear, 11s Deore drivetrain, steel chainring, Onyx wheels).

However, even I still use weight as a data point for things when I'm purchasing. Clearly it isn't my only criteria, and other times other priorities like durability/performance take precedence. But it is something I consider.

IMO, weight alone isn't a good thing or a bad thing. Its just a thing that you can make decisions on.

At $65, and steel, this will be a great option for people valuing budget and durability.

 @tacklingdummy:

 @uponcripplecreek:

 @cool3: X01 and XX1 cassettes aren't $65 j
hyperglide cassettes. You've got to compare what is comparable.

 Sun Race does it again!!!!

 @kryten: wow that's insane.. I just installed an eBay 9-50 XD 12 speed cassette, pretty much the same price at $92 CAD and it was only 523g on my scale. I'm far from a weight weenie but a pound extra on the rear wheel, with one less cog, is a tough sell for the same price.

 @warmerdamj: no you want big carbon dangle

Or ti.

 @tacklingdummy: not on my radar either. Always a special occasion chatting with another radar owner operator, what kind of radar do you have? Since acquiring a radar, I can't say I've looked into changing the gears on it, but I sure take cleaning dishes more seriously than ever before.

 @uponcripplecreek: I wrap myself in tinfoil, wear a tin foil hat, connect a wire from the antenna jack on my TV, and hold the wire. Excellent reception better than any antenna. Perhaps if I hang this cassette around my neck like some bling bling ice, I can even get better reception and pick up signals from outer space. That is on my radar.

 @chubby5000: @chubby5000: too bad the weight weenie marketing and tax has affected us all one way or another, pretty hard to avoid it nowadays, also bless for shimano to actually making a decent drivetrain, linkglide without any of that weight weenie BS

 @cool3: I have a feeling you are not the intended target market for this product...

 This! Especially since 10s is available up to 46t these days. No need for more teeth, complication or cost.

 @Muckal: THIGHS

 @Muckal: Depends where you ride and how you ride. A 30T or 28T chainring with a 46t cassete might be enough for most people. But if you need more range, the 11 speed 11-50 shimano cassete is a good option (except it weighs more).

 @IluvRIDING: I ride 32 and 11-46 on 15.6kg 29er. Gradients here are usually between 15 and 25%, rarely up to 30%. I can pedal comfortably up to 45km/h on the downs, faster if I want to. I don't see the need for anything lower when riding on my own. When I got the child with me, yeah, then something like a 52t would be nice.

 @tempnoo1: or more time riding.

 @watchtower: believe me, weight training does wonders for your uphill capabilities.

 @Muckal: It really depends of the kind of rides you do. For 1hour long climbs at lower oxygen levels or 10hours bikepacking trips weight training only makes you heavier and less efficient uphill.

Some people prefer to spin their bikes than to push them uphill, there are a variety of riding. I own both a bike with 11s 10-42 cassette and a 10-52 cassette. The 11s one has a smaller 26t chainring.

 @watchtower: Move vfm in the gym, 45 minutes 3 times a week and you'll be multiple times stronger. Riding more ain't happening for most on this board.

 10speed is all we need, indeed

 @Muckal: Microshift even has a 48t one but the smallest cog starts slipping after about a month of riding in good conditions.

 @opignonlibre: no weight training does not make you less efficient uphill. And it does not necessarily make you considerably heavier, but considerably stronger. It all depends on the type of training you do. You are thinking about fat. Fat makes you less efficient in every way.

 @opignonlibre: *no, weight training...(missing comma)

 @opignonlibre: @Muckal:

Those hard gear thumpers are always the ones your waiting for half way up the climb because yeah...they could climb without those weak granny gears.. for about 15 mins. When the climb is 2700m in 50km, a dinner plate is going to be necessary for the vast majority of avid riders... or you can push or take breaks more... I'd rather just keep riding.

For the record, I have plenty of strength, can sqaut >4 plates, and output >1500W.... none of this matters when fatigue sets in.

 @IluvRIDING: I do pretty much everything with a 11-speed 11-42 cassette and a 30t chainring. Of course, you don't have that "bailout" gear, but I don't mind on 99% of my rides.

 @tempnoo1: Yes, but gym is boring. Better spend that time outside.

 You guys ever push the shifter on a climb, only to find that you're already in your easiest gear? I do, which tells me I wouldn't mind having an easier gear

 I am sure those monster hills in Illinois are killer.

 10s speed Shimano derailleur (shadow +) with a Goatlink gives you all the range you need. There are loads of servicing parts about too. If you're legs are weak you can go for a direct mount crankset with a 30 or 28 tooth. I don't see a disadvantage!

 I like having the wider range and 10t because you can run a bigger chainring to get more top end which is nice if you ride from home and are doing road/fire miles to get to the trail. While 10 speed gives you the necessary gears, there are plenty of 11 and12 speed options that aren’t that expensive and work very well.

 @maestroman21: that sounds like an awful day to me. How long does that take you spinning like a sewing machine (just as fast) without any fatigue?

 Always the guys from Florida, Texas or.... Chicago with these comments. Come ride some real mountains and see how strong you are

 I am still on 11-speed. I like it better than 12-speed. I don't like gigantic 50+ cogs. I think it puts a lot of strain on derailleurs. 42T cog is big enough.

The only advantages that 12 speed can have is that you can use a larger chainring for slightly better chain retention and perhaps slightly less chain slap.

 10Zee with a 11-42 cassette is my go to. Cheap and reliable.

 Love the idea of smaller cassettes, simpler, maybe lighter etc. But I'm near 60, ride fairly long rides with up to 1500m climbing, lots of punchy and tech climbing in there as well, and have joint issues. Don't ride an e bike. So having a low gear for me lets me do these rides. And I'm not horribly weak, as in I can do those short punchy steps that require a chunk of power, often with the younger stronger guys - it's just over the course of 3-4+ hours of climbing in the BC mountains I'll blow my joints before I burn out my legs if I'm pushing a bigger gear.

 @Muckal: no fatigue??? does not compute.

6-7 hours ish.

 @gasman5: the 2 speed hub idea is the only electronic advancement I can get behind. Paired with a compact 11-42 zee drivetrain.... that would be killer.

 @Muckal: You only have to look at the world's best road racing climbers to see what's best for climbing.
They are usually tiny, and very slender. Not one of them has big, very muscular legs.

Now if you look at track sprinters, they have huge, HUGE quads, as do the road sprinters, to a lesser degree. Those are the gym types in the cycling world. None of them are good climbers. In every stage race, they suffer to get over the mountains in time.

 @WhateverBikes: road cycling still do weight training, check out Dylan Johnson’s videos on weight training for cyclists, he races endurance/ultra endurance gravel/MTB events and still weight trains along with pretty much all pros

 @WhateverBikes: you are confusing weight training with body building, as many do. I have, scientifically proven, the thinnest legs that have ever pedaled uphill. Still, doing weighted squats and deadlifts have helped me get up hills faster, with less fatigue (especially in the lower back) in higher gears than usual on todays MTBs. Or, steeper gradient with less fatigue. Look up Dylan Johnson, as xciscool said. It's really interesting.

 @Muckal: I'm not confusing anything.

Body building is just that, aimed solely at making muscles bigger and/or more defined. I wasn't talking about that.
I was talking at strength training, as are you, judging from you mentioning how many plates you can push. Such training is aimed at getting stronger (duh), and that generally means your muscles will grow in size. As a side effect that is, but still.

The sprinters I mentioned don't do body building (though their thighs put many if not all body builders to shame, but that's an other matter). They do purely functional strength training. And all that strength is certainly *not* helping them get up the hills any faster.

 Yup, 10-spd 11-36T what I ride with. Just need to pair them with the proper chainrings for the proper gear ratios. My younger days, I rode with a 67% gear ratio for the granny - no problem on 20-25% grade. The past 3 years, it's gotten too hard on anything above 10% grade. So, I'll be reducing that ration to more of a modern day granny ratio of 61% by using 22T chainring. This is comparable to the 10-46T cassette with a 28T chainring.

 @A1990ToyotaHilux: when I worked at a Giant retailer almost every one of the Liv hybrid Ebikes that had the Microsoft 11-42 on it would wear out the 11t cog within rides. I get it’s an e-bike but they were ridden by the elderly lol

 @Ryan2949: Lol I rode on in summer on a budget road bike and had worn out the 11t within about a month

 @A1990ToyotaHilux: giant warrantied them every time without issue, but still a pain in the ass LOL. And I couldn’t use a shimano cog because the microshift cassette pins hit the back of it. My quick fix was to unscrew the cassette pin, then installed a shimano cog!

 @WhateverBikes: I didn't mention any plates. I got nothing to brag about. I started with 80kg deadlifts and right now I can do 120kg deadlifts for 4-5 reps. So an increase of 50%. At the same time I gained about 3kgs of body weight which is like a 4% increase. I guess it's mostly muscle, but surely there's also some fat. And you are obviously right, less bodyweight at the same power output will climb faster. Becoming a TdF climber dwarf just isn't an option for most people, getting stronger is something anyone can benefit from.

 Schools out early today? Looks like it, with the narcissistic guys who know nothing about the world and think they are the centre of the universe. Really guys, you sound like teenagers who just found out they have a body and now need to tell everyone how awesome it is.

 More drivetrain speeds equates to smaller tooth gaps between gears, which allows someone to dial in their cadence. In any scenario where you’re doing a lot of pedaling, an additional two gears makes a significant difference in the ability to pick a gear perfect for the power output, speed, and cadence that you’re riding at.

 @arrowheadrush: come to socal ill show you some climbs pal

 Sunrace has slower shift ramps. It can be compromised by using less b-screw.

My sunrace cassettes shift almost the same ( just a little slower) than Shimano, or Sram.

And how long a cassette last highly depends on the chain. I can get 10000 km out on even cheap cassettes with good chains.

My gx Sram cassette on my ebike has already 8000 km on it with the second X01 chain.

 Likely identical to shimano. They copied the HG / IG ramps (as the patents have long since expired) rather than try and come up with different profile, and that's not surprising as KMC has been making their chains to be 100% compatible with shimano cogsets for over a decade now.

 Garbaruk its there up with shimano, little bit noisier, due to build and material, but very good

 @thenotoriousmic: Guess what, stamped metal has generally higher resistance to wear and has better material strengh properties. Machined parts are worse. The only slight advantage of machining is higher precision, but in the real world you don't need it for a cassete (Shimano cassetes shift pretty well, maybe the best).

 @thenotoriousmic: heat treatment?

 @OneTrustMan: 10k km???? excuse me. I'm swapping chains every 1000km and cassettes every 2000km.... 11 of 12 cogs looks okay still... the granny just wears out. Too many big climbs I guess...

 @thenotoriousmic: the great thing about ateels is they can be worked in a soft metastable crystalline structure and then made hard with heat. Stamping is fine as long as the proper finishing operations are done. I have never known anyone wear out Shimano before SRAM.

 @thenotoriousmic: years on the cassette without even wearing off the coating? My xx1 must be broken

 @thenotoriousmic: Obviously machining is more time consuming. That's a fact. But it does not change the fact that stamped metal is better (even if you have an 7 axis machine). Sure you can't make an stamped metal cassette with a spider from one piece of metal. But that's more like an disadvantage of the SRAM casette interface where the whole cassette must be on a spider (or connected somehow to transfer the torque), whereas the HG cassette or microspline may have individual (replacable cogs).

 In my experience theres very little difference in shifting between a GX casette and the 11-50 Sunrace

 @thenotoriousmic: lemme see if I parse apart a bunch of misinformation in this thread. Steel does not need to be soft or annealed to be cold worked, and @iluvriding is correct - cold working generally enhances the properties of metals, especially the grain structure at the surface. This is why butted and bladed spokes have higher specific strength than straight gauge spokes. Ditto for forged parts. And ditto for stamped parts. It's all cold working. Whether you're forming or cutting, you wouldn't want the material to have been surface hardened like a heat treat, so that's not coming into play for either approach.

That said, machining can absolutely produce features that a stamping cannot, and does so at a higher level of precision. Material properties are worse, but usually you can produce a more optimized shape with less waste (thus the weight savings associated with machining). I'm going to take a leap and guess that the flatness and precision of a gear tooth face plays a critical role in both shifting performance and wear, and a machined gear definitely will have a flatter and more precise face than a stamped one.

The same coatings can be applied in either case, as long as we're talking steel for steel. Which brings up the last and most significant point. Like for like (XTR vs XX1), Shimano uses aluminum for more of their largest cogs, and titanium for their middle (XTR only). SRAM XX1 uses it only for the eagle granny gear. So those middle cogs are definitely going to wear faster. Even 7075 aluminum and 6/4 Ti are nowhere near the hardness and toughness of most steels. XX1 isn't anything exotic - just CroMo - but that's going to wear way better than Ti, let alone Al.

Hope that helps.

 @maestroman21: Would you consider a smaller chainring so as to be able to use at least a few of the other big cogs? I can get 8K on a cassette consistently. As long as I change chains before .75%wear.

 @woofer2609: I considered doing this but I quite often use hardest gear. I have considered switching to an all steel cassette as well but then it's a lot heavier. Always a trade off.

 @ohio: you’re right stamping does make the metal stronger and harder but still nowhere near as hard as srams cassettes which uses steel that’s to hard and brittle to be stamped in the first place. So yes even though it does get harder during the stamping process it’s still nowhere near as hard as a machined cassette, still doesn’t have a protective coating and isn’t as accurate so your chain is causing more wear as you shift and pedal.

The truth is if you could get better results with sheet metal and a hydraulic press nobody would ever waste the time and expense machining parts when stamping is so much faster and cheaper. Luckily all that time and effort hasn’t been wasted as they just last so much longer and shift better as well. Really the only advantage to stamping is it’s cheap at the expense of the consumer.

 @thenotoriousmic: SRAM X01 and XX1 cassettes are chromoly. Stamping that material is no problem. If they were hardened to a level of brittleness that couldn't be stamped, they also couldn't be machined. What do you think cutting tools are made of? Parts are hardened *after* forming and machining operations, not before.

 @ohio: I've always thought things were exclusively case hardened after forming or machining as well, but from Sram: XG-899 literature: "8-speed cassette machined from case-hardened tool steel"

 @woofer2609: that's just a marketing dept taking shortcuts. The cassette is machined and it is case hardened steel, but it's awkward to write "... cassette machined from tool steel then case-hardened."
Case hardening is a surface hardness treatment. If you machined AFTER hardening, not only would you prematurely wear your cutting tools, you would cut through the hardened surface and leave the softer core material exposed as your final wear surface. Zero chance that's what they're actually doing.

 @ohio: I would think the same thing. I also think this is the only cassette I've heard of that is cause hardened. At $500 plus, I should hope so...

 I've always used KMCs top end chains on my SRAM drivetrains as i feel they shift smoother and just work better overall.

 Or you could swap chains until the cassette is worn and then run the last chain to death. Worn chains are more likely to break, which could suck if you are in the middle of nowhere.

 As a Shimano 11 speed user I know why they wrote that. Getting into the granny gear on M7/8/9000 cassettes is a big, clunky jump from 37t to 46t.

I compared climbing gears when shopping for a new cassette:
32-37-46 (Shimano 11-46)
36-40-46 (Sunrace CSMX
36-42-46 (Garbaruk 11-46 for HG)
36-42-50 (this new KMC)

KMC has a good sized jump to the 50, but it's still less than Shimano's jump to 46. Shimano phoned it in on that cassette design, big time.

 You know, there's also cogs further up the cassette. I know that kind of E- biker from my time at a bike shop. A lady once stated that the chain skipped when she started from the traffic light in the 13t cog after only 500km. She was very disappointed with the quality. Guess which cogs were brand new, never even used? All, except for the top 3.

 I didn’t get around to changing the chain on my LinkGlide and looking at the teeth wear it seems foolish to try. However, it’s still working well at almost triple the mileage where an SLX had started playing up (and seven times the mileage where a Microshift cassette was skipping teeth!)

 Technically could call them sprockets as they mesh with a chain.

 @Muckal: you just can't use them without some crazy high cadence.

 @jzuijlek: you sure can when using lower assistance modes but noone does that, I understand and I would not do that either. That's why I am for higher gearing on e-bikes or even highly geared single speeds for most people using them as daily drivers around town and such. Unfortunately it's the same story in peoples' minds since I was a child: More gears equals better bike. Even when the opposite is the case for e-bikes.

 @jzuijlek: *in most real world applications, I should add.

 Of course it will.

 Oneup stopped making them but I still have a couple of the 47T expander cogs to make the Shimano 11 speed 11-42 into and 11-47 and it’s perfect. Not too heavy and well spaced while also not as finicky as 12-speed.

 KMC's reputation for super strong chains at an affordable price point with great quality.

 KMC chains are great, especially when compared with SRAM. And the 10-spd quick links are reusable.

 @CSharp:
By what measure? They shift like hot garbage.

 @notthatfast: by measuring with the Shimano XTR and XT chains and how long they last. The SRAM chains I used broke on the link plates. Also, their stretch (hardly any over several thousand kilometers) is great! It's really too bad Shimano discontinued their 10-spd XTR chains - by far the lightest and most durable chain I've used. KMC chains are my go to after that for the price. Their shift is just as good as any Shimano HG chain I've used and it's not directional.

 @CSharp:
I've had great longevity out of XTR 11sp chains, granted I've not tried 12sp, but the shift quality with a KMC chain on a Shimano 12sp drivetrain is appalling, it's virtually unrideable in my experience.

 KMC doesn't shift as 'smooth' as sram/shimano I will admit that but, It's minimal. I wouldn't say hot garbage.. Thing is I actually prefer an amount of clunk, so in a 4X moto I know my shift is crisp an fast.. Don't need to be worrying about shifts in 4X...

Oh an KMC make chains for Shimano

 I see this was downvoted - I tried a Microshift cassette on my ebike and the chain was skipping teeth under load after only 200 miles! At least with SLX 11 speed I’d get 600 miles of good shifting and another 600 miles of progressively worse shifting until it was dead, with no tooth skipping. Meanwhile LinkGlide is at 1400 miles and counting.

 @threehats: I built up a budget wide range 1x road bike with Microshift Advent X, and I managed to get the lowest cog skipping within a month of riding in good weather. It's basically trash, the moment you install it.