Legion's Clever High-Flow Tubeless Valves - Taipei Cycle Show 2024

Mar 6, 2024
by Dario DiGiulio  
photo

Not all of the innovations highlighted at the Taipei Cycle Show are flashy and show-stopping, some come in fairly mundane packages but present a novel idea. That's certainly the case with these tubeless valves from Legion, a Taiwanese design firm and manufacturer focused on small accessories and OE components like brake pads.

Legion's VMAX range of valves may look innocuous, but their internals allow them to outperform typical presta valves in a few ways. They have much higher airflow rates, quoted at a 300% increase, they allow for sealant to be injected directly through the valve, and one of the models even allows you to convert your existing valves to carry over the same benefits. That Converter option simply threads over the rim-side post of your tubeless valve, after you've removed the presta valve that would come stock.

photo
The Converter.

There's also a low-profile road version, and a slightly burlier MTB variant. All of them can be run with valve extenders, should you find yourself mounting up some deeper dish wheels. The valves retail for $25 a set, which is in line with other tubeless valves on the market.

I've also been told some very large OE clients have bought the design, so expect to see the Legion concept on the broader market sooner than later.

photo
Cheeky little cutaway.
photo
I like the simple converter concept.

The obvious comparison here is the Reserve-branded Fillmore Valve from Santa Cruz, which offers similar airflow and convenience measures in a slightly different package. I'll be getting a sample of the Legions to make a long term comparison, but for now the price alone gives some credence to the VMAX, as the Fillmores cost twice as much. Apparently this design predates the Fillmore by about two years, but limited distribution and marketing mean it hasn’t caught quite the same wave.

Besides the Fillmore, there are some other more recent, similar-looking designs on the market. But rumor has it there are patent disputes that could preclude some of them from seeing OE spec.

Regardless of which shakes out on top, I'm happy to see clever solutions being doled out to the simple yet frustrating problems that common presta valves can create.

photo
photo
Something of a sneak peak: this even higher flow version is incoming, which apparently allows for around 1000% of the airflow a presta can offer.

More information can be found at Legion's website.

Posted In:
Reviews and Tech First Looks Legion Taipei Cycle Show 2024


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114 Comments
  • 121 2
 You know, I used to think that the Schrader valve fans were just old school 26aintdead diehards, but the more presta adaptations that come out, all aiming to allow more airflow, made me realize that Schrader may actually be the answer.
  • 20 1
 Converted my EX511s to Schrader, zero regrets.
  • 30 1
 Schrader has been the answer since....the beginning. Only reason Presta was invented was to allow super skinny road rims to exist. I was boring out my slalom/4X and DH rims to Shrader in the mid 90's until tubless came out. I have a set of tubeless Schrader valves on one of my MTB's and they are great.
  • 5 0
 just got those ethirteen quickfill valves that fit presta rims and convert to a schrader head and couldn't be happier
  • 8 0
 Thank you! I've been trying to scream for schrader, got a few peers converted but I love to see the world consider the common sense solution! 3
  • 8 0
 I agree with this as you can now get tubeless versions of schrader valves with different stem lengths. Also, you wouldn't even need adapters if you need air at a gas station or if you need to fill it with an electric air pump.
  • 1 0
 I tried these out

www.ride-air.com/products/convertair?variant=31335951597641

Great concept and would’ve been the best solution but they used super cheap O-rings that would fail incredibly quick. Great product idea, poor execution.
  • 3 1
 @bman33: Presta valves pre date schrader valves i thought... but looking into it
  • 4 0
 Jeff Jones came to the same conclusion. Check out these Schrader valve stems with removable valve cores.
jonesbikes.com/jones-spec-schrader-valve-stem-pair
  • 5 2
 You're not wrong, presta valves are a roadie hangeron, never worked great, and for tubeless they suck.

There are options: www.google.com/search?q=schrader+tubeless+valve&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS1066US1066&oq=shraeder+tub&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqCQgBEAAYDRiABDIGCAAQRRg5MgkIARAAGA0YgAQyCQgCEAAYDRiABDIJCAMQABgNGIAEMgkIBBAAGA0YgAQyCQgFEAAYDRiABDIJCAYQABgNGIAEMggIBxAAGBYYHjIICAgQABgWGB4yCggJEAAYDxgWGB7SAQg0NTk5ajBqN6gCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
  • 3 0
 @stationaryisdead: I have these on several bikes and have not had any issues with O-ring leaking. The only issue I have had is that the adapter will sometimes want to unscrew from the valve stem when unscrewing the cap. As long as I use 2 hands and hold onto the adapter when removing the cap, I have had zero issues.
  • 4 0
 e13 gots you covered www.ethirteen.com/products/quick-fill-plasma-schrader-valve
  • 3 0
 Schrader IS the answer. Get out your drill and get some moto valves and your good to go. Assuming you don't have carbon rims.
  • 2 0
 @bdreynolds7: Ditto - I've converted rims to Schrader since 2010.
  • 2 0
 @stationaryisdead:

Tubeless Schrader Valves

You're welcome!
  • 2 0
 @fartymarty: Or if you want to get real fancy, pick up a tapered reamer 1/8" to 1/2" and hand ream it all in one shot. Way cleaner than using standard drill bits.
  • 2 0
 @fartymarty: Nothing wrong with drilling carbon rims. You just need to use new/sharp drill bits and a steady hand.
  • 4 0
 Just use moto tubeless valve to make it schrader on your mtb...
  • 3 0
 What I’m realizing is that I must be doing something that literally nobody else does because I’ve never once had valve airflow issues
  • 1 0
 @bdreynolds7: do you remember what size drill you used?
  • 1 0
 @nnowak: maybe it was just a bad batch that I received. Would’ve been nice if they’d’ve worked. It’s as if they weren’t quite the right size and were also really fragile.
  • 2 0
 @hydraulica: Schrader valve is 8 mm. The closest commonly available inch drill bit is 21/64" or 8.3 mm.
  • 1 0
 @hydraulica: A Schrader valve is 7.7mm nominal, but is usually a hair under at around 7.4mm. Depending on your valve stem, 19/64" might be enough. If not, 5/16 will definitely work.
  • 1 0
 Check these our from Ethirteen.

www.mbr.co.uk/news/ethirteens-new-tubeless-valve-is-half-presta-half-schrader-and-promises-easier-tyre-setup-435830
  • 1 0
 @allbiker: exactly.

ITT: guys who spent way too much money on MTB-specific schrader valves without realizing these have existed for cars, motos, and trucks forever.
  • 1 0
 Shrader will be cheaper than all of these new valve "standards"
  • 1 0
 @hydraulica: I used a tapered hand reamer not a drill bit. The 1/8"-1/2" reamer worked out perfectly for sizing both holes in my rim at the same time to fit the schrader thread size and be a little bigger on the rubber seal side. YMMV depending on how deep your rims are
  • 1 0
 @GTscoob: $10 is "too much" for a pair of bike specific Schrader valves?
  • 53 0
 Increased airflow? Meh

Not clogging with sealant? All the yes please.
  • 4 1
 even fillmores got cloged in that part, where it´s closing from leaking air,...I mean in the tire part...sealant made there some residue which does not allow fully close airflow and it was leaking air not a bit
  • 1 1
 @inked-up-metalhead spot on!! ...please say it louder for folks in the back!
  • 1 0
 @Ice-cz: The converter is the best idea I've seen. So easy to screw off for filling with sealant without getting any sealant in your valve. You can still get some in there from how your wheel is oriented, but that would be when the valve was closed and wouldn't be all up in the works.

The fillmores do get a little, but I've not had them get enough to stop from sealing...and they take air SO nicely compared to a regular presta after they've been in use.
  • 18 2
 Do I have airflow problems and just not realize it? I dont really get how I benefit from this or other solutions like the Fillmore valves
  • 2 0
 In my case I paired it with a high flow pump from Topeak, and can fill my tires a lot faster, less than half the pumps IIRC.
  • 6 1
 The fillmores really do make a difference. I was able to seat dh casing tires with inserts with just a floor pump and one hand. Not even pumping quickly.
  • 4 1
 @Austink: I can already seat the most loose or stubborn tire casing to tubeless rims with either some non-petroleum vaseline or dish detergent and my Topeak Joe Blow Ace pump without any issues. Having a compressionless air tank works like a charm too and costs less than a pair of expensive valves.
  • 15 0
 Removable valve cores already solved the problem. Remove core - easy to seat tyres, add sealant. Install core. Done.
  • 1 0
 @Otago: exactly, I really don't get the problem. If you beed even more air flow for some reason get a compressor or schrader valves.
  • 2 0
 Agreed. This seems to be attempting to solve a problem that doesn’t really exist. Bike industry is really good at that.
  • 2 1
 I've only had an issue mounting tubeless ties when they might need more air to set the bead the first time, before injecting sealant.

My solution is just removing the valve core and hooking them up to an air compressor, but I guess this might be slightly more convenient in that scenario?

I'm putting it in the category of "wouldn't mind if they came standard on my next wheels, but not gonna spend any extra $$s buying them."
  • 2 0
 The problem is not the airflow. The problem is presta valves clogging with sealant.
  • 1 0
 try to seal a fucking Schwalbe with a floor pump
  • 1 0
 @vemegen: Yup, did it with Magic Mary with my Topeak Joe Blow Ace pump - multiple times as well. Also did it with the Michelin Force tire, which is a far looser fit. No problem getting those loud bangs to seat the tires.
  • 2 0
 @CSharp: I agree they aren't required as I used to get my tires seated with some soap and my compressor. For me it just made more sense to get the fillmores and not have to faff with all the other hacks. Changing dh tires every few weeks during park season makes me want to find all the marginal gains to make doing the job easier.
  • 17 0
 MF Doom would like a word about that logo. (RIP)
  • 13 0
 he would like a word about your lack of capital letter usage as well.
  • 7 0
 @Sweatypants: Damn, you’re right! Take my upvote of APPROVAL Wink
  • 5 0
 Just remember ALL CAPS when you spell the man name.
  • 10 0
 I miss Schraders
  • 4 0
 You can go back. I drilled out my alloy rims years ago and got Schrader tubeless valves on Amazon. It's all good. I don't see a need to ever go back to Presta.
  • 5 0
 I run schraders. $6 for a pair, and the reality is it just works. No clogging, no nonsense, no unthreading cores.. It's a valve. You know, the one every other industry uses. Also the one bike industry uses everywhere else.
  • 2 0
 @MrDuck: Interesting, my understanding behind Presta is, they started getting used because they would fit in narrow road bike wheels.
  • 3 0
 @iforte312: People have always been able to use Schrader valves on mountainbikes, haven't we? I moved to Schrader the first time I unthreaded the cap and the Presta valve core came along. Seemed both inconvenient as well as dangerous enough for me to make the switch over two decades ago.
  • 1 0
 @MrDuck: YEP!
  • 3 0
 @MrDuck: I still get occasional clogs with Schrader valves, but I picked up a 100 pack of Schrader valve cores for $12 and just replace as needed. They never clog completely, but will slow flow enough to cause issues with my pressure gage.
  • 3 0
 @nnowak: They're easy enough to clean out, aren't they? I do replace the valve cores every now and then, but this also goes for my fork air valve. At least it is one single stock for whatever is inflatable on my bike.
  • 1 0
 @vinay: The Schrader valve stem is nearly impossible to clog. The little Schrader valve cores are not. At only $0.12 a piece, I just swap the cores at the first sign of trouble. Usually only once a year.
  • 1 0
 @nnowak: And you can easily clean clogged cores with paint thinner or alcohol so you basically never run out!
  • 8 0
 Wow, direct 76 projects copy
  • 3 1
 Santa Cruz Fillmores are the worst high flow valves. 76projects valves are lighter, cheaper, and available in more sizes/colors
  • 1 0
 That seems to be the theme of this "show" unfortunately.
  • 1 1
 @wburnes: what makes you say Fillmore's are the worst ??
  • 1 1
 @savmeister: read the second sentence of my comment to find out
  • 2 1
 @wburnes: 5g & pink makes that much of a different then hahah
  • 1 0
 @savmeister: At least the initial versions of Fillmore had incompatibility with pumps, such as the Oneup. They updated their design, but I still find them more finicky for push-on style chucks. Overall, I like the 76 projects, though they aren't without flaws. I have to clean the threads on the valve or it can be difficult to turn. They are also hard to operate (too easy to let out air) at lower pressures that I use for fat/snow biking, but this is dad-country specific deficiency.
  • 7 0
 Stop making these overly-complex, impossible to source parts when schrader valves already exist.
  • 3 0
 This is exactly what the bike industry is for the past 10-15 years: The 7-minute Ab Workout
  • 3 0
 Does anyone know why the switch from shrader to presta ever happened? Presta just added a major weak spot to my bike as I've bent or broken off a few - sideway-force for mounting and pumping and a fragile valve top are a shitty combo. At the same time, a shrader pump is much more likely to find anywhere on the planet compared to presta. Why did anyone decide that the more fragile and less available standard is right for mountainbikes?
  • 1 0
 Skinny alloy rims back in the day, especially on road bikes. Seen as "higher performance" as a result, so was adopted on mountain bikes too, even once rim sizes got much bigger.
  • 3 0
 It came from roadies with really skinny rims that were made with alloy that had the strength of paper mache. OG mountain bikes had Schrader valves, but at some point marketing decided that only cheap bikes should use Schrader and "good" bikes should use Presta.
  • 1 0
 Thinner wheels
  • 6 0
 If you have aluminium rims then just drill the holes bigger and run schrader valves. Job done.
  • 9 1
 If you have carbon rims then just drill the holes bigger and run Schrader valves. Job done.
  • 1 0
 @nnowak: I actually found it easier on carbon in a way.
  • 7 1
 Wow, this blows away the competition.
  • 1 0
 You say it like you're blowing hot air!
  • 5 0
 Sorry to burst your bubble, but Schrader is still standing strong.
  • 2 0
 www.949racing.com/product/black-anodized-aluminum-valve-copy

These are the best tubeless schrader valves that I've never seen anyone mention. I have several sets from when I used to do ghetto tubeless in 2012-2013. I haven't had trouble with presta since tubeless valves have been commercially available but I always have access to a compressor and bring a small Ryobi compressor and presta inflator chuck with me at all times so maybe I'm just lazy.
  • 2 0
 Considering MTB rims are in 30 mm internal width category, reinventing presta is truly innovative and ans simplified solution compared to drilling 1 mm bigger hole to accommodate schrader valves, that are so uncommon in motorsport, also lets invent presta valve tpms, cause none considered using then in motorsport and lets 3x price them
  • 4 1
 $25-50 for valve stems??? I been using these on all my rigs for years: www.949racing.com/product/black-anodized-aluminum-valve-copy
  • 2 0
 Did you have to drill out your rim to fit them?
  • 2 1
 @AlexBroach: yes I do. Never done with carbon rims but aluminum has never been an issue.
  • 1 0
 Wow and an extra 3hp! What’s that in watts, for emtbers? Wink
  • 2 0
 @sngltrkmnd: hey man at my age i need all the extra hp i can get lol
  • 3 1
 I get that the converter makes it easier to inject sealant, but how can it improve airflow by 300% when the bore of the existing valve you're screwing it on to stays the same?
  • 1 0
 The flow restriction in traditional designs is at the valve core rather than caused by the bore size. I've got some Project 76 valves, can't say for certain that there's a 300% improvement but the change is significant.
  • 1 0
 @mashrv1: So if like me, you take out the valve core to inflate the tyre there's no improvement at all. That's what I thought.
  • 1 0
 @commental: yup. In that case the only advantage is that the valve can’t clog as easily
  • 4 0
 The only clever high flow tubeless valve is a Schrader valve. Switch to Schrader and you will love it.
  • 1 1
 Some people in the comment section seems to never had the problem of a tire that won't set in it's bed even after pumping like crazy or using a compressor...
Yes, there are some gadgets like tireboosters or selfmade things like a friend of mine who built a tirebooster out of an old Sodastream-cartridge, he usually fills up to 15 bar.

to just increase the airflow i took an old valve core and removed the 'valve' and the securing screw. Yes there is no valve anymore, so the air goes back out but once the tire is set I dont care anymore. Put the original valvecore back in, fill it up with sealant at the same time and ready to pressurize the tire...
This solution cost me 0$ and takes me about 20 seconds...
  • 3 0
 Why? If you're having issues seating it you can literally just remove the valve core entirely, attach the pump/compressor, and pump it up. Once the bead seats you put valve core back in. If you're fast enough you'll even have some air left in it.

I've never owned a pump nor an adapter that required the valve core to be installed to work.
  • 1 0
 Maybe we are saying the same thing, but it just sounds to me like you're disassembling a valve core and inserting it.
  • 1 0
 @nickfranko: no, you got me right. I tried it without the valvecore but then the pumphead didnt sealed correctly and it didn't locked securely. So when I was pumping the hose fell off.
So only the outside Part of the valvecore was the thing that reloved all the problems
  • 1 0
 @Nicolai-ion-rider: interesting. Well, in the future if you ever get a different pump, you can always test if it seals without the core. Because my Joe Blow pump does work without it, and those little brass schrader to presta valve adapters worked without it.

So, note for the audience: first try it with no valve core. If for some reason it doesn’t work, then you can disassemble another valve core like Nic did.
  • 2 1
 Dollars to doughnuts, Santa Cruz/Reserve ain't gonna let some Taiwanese company put a dent in their $50+ razor blade...errrr.... presta valve business. Them boys got a team of lawyers on this I'm sure.
  • 3 0
 High flow valves. So hot right now.
  • 1 0
 Must have for a high pivot bike
  • 1 0
 Not sure what the issues with Presta valves are.
I position the valve at 12 O'clock for filling / gauging and I don't seem to have any.
  • 3 0
 I’m gonna leave this right here
a.co/d/fZjWNvl
  • 3 0
 Have those on a few bikes, including some carbon rims that I drilled, and they work fantastic.
  • 1 0
 if they spent a quarter of the time that they spend designing valves on better cable routing we maybe could get out of this headset routing mess
  • 1 0
 This makes way more sense to me. I’m happy to remove my adapter and drive a $0.05 nail thru my pre-existing valve when it’s clogged with sealant.
  • 1 0
 E-Thirteen Quick Fill Presta valves are nice. They just came out with a Schrader version also.
  • 3 3
 I’ve already made the switch to Fillmore valves. They are expensive but worth it for the benefit of not having clogged valves.
  • 1 0
 This is the engineering at its worst.. a circle back to where it started with Schrader valves.
  • 1 0
 Can someone tell me why I would need to inflate/deflate my tires at 1000% the current rate?
  • 2 2
 When you really need to deflate your competitors tire(s) as fast as possible to sabotage their race at the pit/ feed station
  • 2 1
 Why can't we have fill valves like a basketball?
  • 1 0
 Well we did on suspension forks. The Rockshox RS-1 and Mag 21 took a ball needle to set the air pressure. So high in the tech stuff!
  • 1 1
 These are available at amazon already 2 for $15 for the converters: "VMAX Ultra High Volume Bicycle Presta Tubeless Valves"
  • 1 0
 www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B09RZNR4G1
  • 1 3
 It this can feel as good and have the power of normal hydraulic brakes, I love the idea of a simpler system/lever for frame swaps and I can only assume simpler bleed etc.
  • 1 0
 Wrong article?
  • 1 0
 @dougfs: Yeah, seems to be talking about the Juin Tech 6-piston cable/hydraulic hybrid brakes. Which, if they're anything like other hybrid brakes I've used--no, they never feel as good as pure hydraulic brakes.







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