The Pinkbike Podcast: Episode 144 - Interview with an Illegal Trail Builder
Art by Taj Mihelich
Did you know that mountain biking would be way less fun if we didn't have singletrack? We spend a lot of time talking about different bikes and gear, but none of that would be of much use if all we had were gravel roads, which is why it's about time we discuss trail building and everything that comes along with it. Today's podcast sees me talk to a prolific trail builder who has been working in the woods for three decades, creating everything from chill climbing trails to killer descents to flowing blue trails and all that's in between. He's also built his fair share of unsanctioned singletrack, and while we don't condone skirting the rules - don't build illegal trails, please - we do talk about why he feels like he has to go down that road. That's also why we're disguising his voice and using an alias.
This is just the first podcast in a series that will bring you conversations with the people and organizations involved with building the trails we all love to ride. Stay tuned for more perspectives in the coming weeks, including chats with cycling organizations and other builders.
THE PINKBIKE PODCAST // EPISODE 144 - INTERVIEW WITH AN ILLEGAL TRAIL BUILDER
September 16th, 2022
Berms, bench cuts, and unsanctioned singletrack are all on the menu.
Featuring a rotating cast of the editorial team and other guests, the Pinkbike podcast is a weekly update on all the latest stories from around the world of mountain biking, as well as some frank discussion about tech, racing, and everything in between.
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All Mitch Hedberg references are relevant and appreciated.
Don't blame IMBA, blame the lawyers (or both?)
But even if a trail association or municipality was willing to higher a builder to create a proper built double black / “pro-line” jump trail or ultra steep tech trail. Neither would be willing to take on the liability of trails of that skill level for multiple reasons.
TL;DR : As long as our sport has highly skilled individuals who want to progress their own personal riding level there will be “illegal trails”
Over in the PNW a sanctioned rowdy system on USFS land(I think, it's gov land that has a logging and recreation easement) started building bike specific trail in 2019. To my knowledge, they didn't use IMBA guidelines, and used the forest services resources(aka, thousands of hours of CCC worker's time) to cut gnarly, hand-built, proper techy mountain bike trail that can hold up to erosion. I was blown away that this system was built so recently, sanctioned, and as fun as it was. I would love to see more gov't land go this route, as their trail builders honestly build better trails than any machine-built stuff I've ridden. To top it off, they even built a sanctioned double-black tech trail as recently as last summer!
First off that place sounds awesome!
Totally agree that, thankfully there exceptions to this. Another great example being the KBR bike park in Kamloops. It is built on city/gov land and there is insurance taken on and paid for by a local trail association (someone please correct me on this if I’m wrong. But pretty sure that is how it’s managed). For the most part sadly the majority of trail networks probably won’t be willing to take on that sort of responsibility. There will also still be fringe trails that are absolutely never going to be sanctioned; a trail I know of has a final feature thats a 20’x35’ drop with multiple other hits that are not much smaller above it. Of course that is the 0.1% of trails. But especially in the PNW there are a good handful of riders wanting and willing to build and ride such trails.
We just opened a sweet jump trail on BLM last year that's a solid black even by whistler standards, and this year a super steep tech trail that's a black, but could honestly be a double black, in a city park of all places. We adopted another route that's natural hand built blue tech as well, again in a city park, no machines used and it's got a real oldschool vibe. This just took some serious advocacy, which as I'm finding out now, will probably snowball into other opportunities.
The fact is most people who get involved in those organizations aren't super shredders and just don't know how to build advanced stuff, so when they get the opportunity, it resembles their version of "advanced", which often has an imba vibe. Your trails are shaped by who shows up.
I'm not saying don't build unsanctioned stuff because that's really the backbone of mtb, but also create a plan on how to push things in an advanced direction. It's definitely possible as long as you have the terrain and access.
New Zealand has the perfect laws to address this. My understanding is that if you are doing something inherently risky you assume the risk of that activity. Wish the US had something similar.
I was passing though a town in Northern California and hit up a trail system I saw on the map as I was passing though. I had low expectations, ended up being surprised. Near the bottom of an already amazing jump line is a double with a 30' gap. That trail is on the cities website, and describes it accurately.
It is possible to have good official trails, just have to have the right people pushing for them. I will be honest, I am not one of them so I can't claim any credit for the work of others.
F yes!
Haven’t published it yet but shoot me a dm with your contact info and I’ll send you a copy
That said, would you expect something like a summary judgment in every one of these cases?
Because i can with authority, say that my local trail org couldn't even afford to defend against a lawsuit like this.
That’s a good point. Just because you have the law on your side doesn’t mean it’s free. It just hopefully means that PI lawyers won’t take those cases because they’re not worth anything. We live in a funky system.
I also cited your paper in my paper! Thanks for all the great info. Canadas legal framework is much better than ours for dealing with this stuff.
When i lived in Ireland mountain biking was prohibited in a lot (though not all) of the places i used to ride. Again, little to no enforcement and nobody cared. It's a catch all to discourage people from suing them, or in case people are really taking the piss riding dangerously around pedestrians.
The sport simply would not exist in many places without "illegal" digging and riding. It's a relatively new sport with relatively small numbers of people doing it (compared to the numbers of people hiking, in most places) and it just hasn't been accepted by the various land authorities yet even if they tacitly tolerate it for the most part. I know in the US you probably get ejected from your illegal trail by a SWAT team backed up by an Abrams tank but that just isn't how it works in most of the world.
Rule 2 - squirrel catchers at beginning and end - no intersections
Rule 3 - dont ride it in winter/rain season and mid / end of summer= blow out
Rule 4 - leave many natural obstacles - a loamer shouldn't look like A Line. A speed check is not a bad thing.
But unfortunately the organizations and government bodies (especially in the US) who have yet to be convinced regular mountain bikes should be allowed in wilderness areas could, or likely will use the fact that bikes now come with *assisted* motors as a reason to remove all bikes from them. Hopefully I’m wrong.
I will say though after having my ebikes for two years now that one argument that I would agree with is that they can definitely get some people in trouble that have no business being on some of the trails that are hard to get too. From a safety standpoint, people can get way in over their heads fast all the while being really far from help.
Have you seen the latest E-EWS footage from Crans Montana. Riders using two feet off the pedals, and the bikes keep accelerating up the hill thru the technical terrain, all UCi approved of course. There’s nothing wrong with enjoying a childs motor cycle, one day i might get one. But when i do, i wont pretend that im still a mountain biker.
I've never felt that they were fun (to me) plus the risk is high for that limited reward?
Genuine question before you think I'm being a (insert swear word)...
I cleaned it a few times but it was weird - I felt good for doing it, but zero desire to do it again. Ha ha!
The idea of doing any of the old school north shore woodwork is next level... I respect the skill, but that's just nuts!
Worst must be living somewhere super hot - that's harder to ride than the cold/wet... I'm sure there's a few months a year in places like Utah where you can't ride, unless night riding is your thing?
LOL
(Too many puppies)
“ He is never seen in any of the episodes, but through Cosmo Kramer's accounts, he is the source of bizarre anecdotes, and is known to frequently give esoteric information and harebrained ideas”
But the worst part is that the argument against us is that we ‘destroy’ the trails, but in fact we’re the community which is most willing to take care of these trails and make them better for everyone.
Probably not the sort of trail user people think about with the new e-bikes of today.
Why when talking about cold weather riding gear are pogies/bar-mitts/etc never mentioned on pinkbike?
Are you in the pocket of "Big glove?" /s
They let me keep my hands warm without having to wear bulky gloves
legal trails are too safe,and that’s not why we ride bikes.
And just be Bikes. And please elaborate on "free speech" Thank you
The rest of the stuff, well, this site has a broad mix of members, so don’t expect an attaboy for anything other than beer, bud, and sex.
Surprisingly, (to me at least) is the conservative undertones to this crowd, for same reason I figured mountain bikers as being more libertarian leaning and less socially conservative.
Silly me
Maybe golf would be more exciting