Pinkbike Podcast Episode 56: What Are the Most Important Inventions in Mountain Biking?

 to this day, whenever a nonbike person asks me what bike to purchase to get into the sport, i always respond, whatever you find as long as it has Hydraulic Brakes. People take it for granted but none of the modern achievements in MTB wouldnt be possible if it wasnt for the modulation and performance of Hydraulic brakes.

 Where the f*ck is Mike Levy?

 Good stuff... But, RC missed it on the fork call.. Marzocchi was doing all the stuff with the Bombers that he claimed Fox brought to the table.. Perhaps the phone calls from the neighbors every time MBA said the Bombers were great but just a little heavy still haunt him? Even though I worked there, I agreed with them.. Our forks were heavier that the Rock Shox and Manitou forks at the time.. But they worked..

When the Fox came out, I knew they were going to be serious competition for us.. The only thing that truly surprised me were the bushing issues on the early Fox forks..

Or is it now that Fox owns Marzocchi, we just rewrite things a bit and its now all Fox?

 “Our asses can take a lot of pounding”
-RC, 2021
Best quote to come from a pinkbike podcast hands down

 I love the cast, but where is Levy? Not enough disturbance during these podcasts!

 I think if you didn't ride through the times that these innovations came along, then you really don't realize their real impact at the time.

Single front ring = minor.
Better brakes = good
Dropper = good
Rear suspension = good (just good because it came after front suspension)
Front suspension = HUGE

 Gonna start counting how many times Bryan and Sarah say "like"

 Is Levy okay?

 Love it when RC is on the podcast...so much knowledge. One of my fav all time pods is when he was on The Downtime Podcast a few years ago.

 Alright, alright.. either Levy is dead, some Canadian secret agent, or both. There’s something going on with his long absences. Curling camp or infiltrating the MTB industry cabal? Maybe he’s a double agent working on 149X18mm rear axle standards? I’m suspicious

 Many good answers, but for me trailforks has been a game changer. Spent too much time in the early days getting lost on poorly marked trails, or not really getting into the flow of the ride because I was too focused on figuring out where to go.

 I think the rediscovery of non-euclidean geometry had the biggest impact on modern mountain bikes...

 In terms of what I experienced of most important inventions:

- Index shifting in the 80's was huge.

Overall biggest inventions:

- Front suspension changed the game
- Hydraulic disks are magic (I've ridden with caliper brakes for 37yrs and recently switched)
- Dropper posts are also excellent.
- The move to larger wheels is a big advent.

 Time for a "worst innovations" podcast, replete with low normal derailleurs, Evolution 1 1/4" headsets, bullhorn bar ends, 28.99 mm crank axles, 15mm QR instead of the 20mm that already existed...feel free to add to this list

 One thing that’s worse today than it was back when: cable routing! We’re almost past this, but internally routed cables without tube-in-tube are a real pain in the butt. Gimme the old cable stops any day.

 This was a ton of fun! Made me remember reading Jody's Box in my dad's copies of MXA as a kid and puzzling out the humor with more or less success. Also, thanks RC for the review of the Ripmo AF that helped me decide to order last spring when it began to look like that was the only sure way to get a bike from a shop. Appreciate the stories!

 Best MTB Innovations? For me they are:

1. Hydraulic disc brakes. As someone who started riding with cantilever brakes, this was a game changer.
2. Front suspension (close second to disc brakes).
3. Modern frame geometry. Finally figuring out how to design a proper MTB frame for rider balance and control.
4.Tire compounds, tread patterns, and sizes.
5.Rear suspension.
6. Dropper posts.

Everything else is incremental improvement.

 I loved this episode. I grew up riding mountain bikes in the '90's, so I've seen a lot of these changes. SIS had already happened, so I never had to run friction shifters offroad (thankfully), but suspension, geo changes (both angles and suspension design) , good hydraulic discs, clutch derailleurs, and droppers made this an entirely more enjoyable pursuit. RC absolutely nailed it when he spoke about rider fatigue on fully rigid bikes. I would absolutely fly on my rigid bike until I got tired, then it was just a question of survival!
I think one thing that was glossed over was how good parallel push v-brakes were compared to many of the discs at the time (which were mostly one fixed and one actuating pad) or just v-brakes compared to cantis. That fixed pad on early discs would wear down and had to be adjusted constantly!
Geometry: I used to hate 29ers until the geo was sorted out. The big changes there being fork offsets and head angles. The first 29ers had great rollover but they felt like pulling a trailer through the woods - just not that maneuverable. My last two mtbs have been 29, and that's all in the past.
I was totally wrong about front derailleurs. We used to joke in the shop that SRAM could never make a front derailleur that worked and that's why they went first to 2x10, then 1x11. Ripping that thing off the mountain bike allowed so much progress for rear suspension to improve. I still prefer them on road to maintain a tighter cluster in the back but I'll never have one again on an mtb. The funniest thing about that is that I was riding 1x9 when I said that front derailleurs were good.
Clutch derailleurs! What a game changer. True story: I once went for a ride with some friends around the time they got the scene on my 1x9 hardtail. The tension spring at that point was old and tired and not holding very tight. I dropped my chain 12 times in an hour, picked my bike over my head, and threw it in the woods. I announced I was going home, retrieved my bike and started to climb out of the trail. My chain dropped at very top (I probably ratchet pedaled to clear some rocks) and I got tossed off my bike into a tree. Broke my helmet. I bought a clutch derailleur immediately after that ride.

 REQUEST: Have Richard on as much as possible. He is awesome. Works so well with the rest of the gang.

TOPIC: What is the worst invention or technology each presenter has HAD to use? Love the "bitch sessions"

 The maverick speedball dropper post was before the crankbros joplin! CB bought the rights to the speedball! Also Mavic created UST not Michelin! Loved this episode of nostalgia!

 Seriously? FD hard to adjust? They were not hard to adjust...at least not the XT ones I always used.

I had cantilevers and 3 rings and no suspension and the whole bit. I still have some of that antique stuff around here.

 From most important to least, all being significant improvements:
Front suspension: talk about arm pump descending alpine terrain with no suspension... Just not bearable.
Disc brakes: brakes when wet, can suffer significant wheel damage, power and modulation
Tubeless tires with sealant: from an average of 1 puncture per ride to 1 puncture per year (depends on riding location of course).
29 wheels: so much more confort and confidence.
dropper post: saddle at the right height, at the right time.
1by drivetrains: simple.
Better frame material / construction: not only carbon but aluminium and steel have gotten much better than 30 years ago

 I'm not positive, but it looks like Bullseye looted the splined / pinch bolt design from Redline with their Flight cranks (found on BMX).

 I really dig this conversation. I often pose a similar question to my riding buddies, but have forgotten about things like index shifting and threadless stems. I think they are off the mark in criticizing flex-stems wholesale though. My partner struggles with wrist fatigue after a few hours on the bike so she rides with Fasst Company Flexx bars. The movement in them is barely perceptible for handling, but takes so much vibration out of the system and gives her way more endurance than me.

 Super boost, surely?

 Disc brakes. The new tires allow me to climb some terrible lines in the wet. Not sold on the newest geometry, at least for climbing. I don't care about going downhill, but I may be the only one. Dual suspension allows for pedaling when it gets technical.

 I started riding in 09, the beginning of mainstream 29ers, still had front derailleurs, disc brakes and no droppers that I was aware of. For me the two biggest advancements have been the geo and droppers. I went 1X in my second year of riding and haven't had a front derailleur since, that was with a 9spd drivetrain too. I bought a Cannondale trigger 29er in 2013 with a dropper, I was sure I was going to replace it with a carbon post. After 2 rides that thought was gone. After the trigger I got a Chromag Rootdown, that was the bike that sold me on slacker geo.

 New trends.... Full electronic suspension (K2 Animal) where the 'lock outs' suspension settings etc are pre tuned using app and the suspension setting are saved and can be toggled through on the fly. Probably eventually voice controlled. Like moto map switch but for suspension, same thing will happen for moto suspension.

 1. Front Suspension
2. Disc brakes
3. Big tires (Not really an innovation, as they'd always been around)
4. Dropper Posts
5. Index Shifting
6. Rear suspension
7,8,9,10...you figure out the order for derailleur clutches, 1X drivetrain, NW chainrings, Aheadsets, clipless pedals, tubeless,etc.

 I actually have a few questions now.

@mikekazimer: what kind of underwear do you suggest for people who don't want to wear a chamois? I'm currently destroying my briefs at an alarming rate, and I'm not really keen on wearing my road bib shorts.

@brianpark: For the companies that don't size chainstays up or down based on frame size, which size(s) do you think get screwed the most? Which size(s) are the ones where the chainstays are designed perfectly for, or is it just some compromise between all sizes?

@...someone, not sure who: Regarding footwear, I've noticed that a lot of mtb flat pedal shoes have really wide toeboxes (for my small feet anyway). Coming more from a skiing background, how snug should the shoe fit to get more out of the experience versus a ski boot?

 @brianpark @mikekazimer I'd be very curious what you all think about financing bikes, or other creative ways to pay for a bike. I find it rather frustrating that there isn't an equivalent to an auto loan at most US banks or credit unions. Are you aware of any less advertised options available? What options exist on James' side of the pond that maybe we don't have here?

 Started riding in 1991 on rigid Giant Butte on 26s but after 1997, bailed on riding until 2012 so I missed all the BS and came back in when it got good, glad its better than ever - and that I saved several $10 grand on junk ass experiments vs. the plush bomber gear we have now. Hard to even believe how far its come so fast...we're really lucky today vs. the old days

 @brianpark @mikekazimer Have listened to every cast now, some 3-4 times but can't find answer to this. WTF is up w/ b-screws

Why don't b-screws simply have a # of clicks or some way to determine / set this on the trail w/o constant bike-shop overisight?\ Just moved to SRAM X01 (from NX - never once had this issue w/ NX) but now my b-screw simply will not stay put, jockey wheel constantly rattling & bobbing. Have taken twice to reset at the shop, but I cannot fix it - nothing works. SRAM video says to set w/ 25-30% sag on the derailleur w/ the red b-screw tool. One local shop says red SRAM measurement tool doesn't work - another shop says it does but not with sag. SRAM video shows it works. WTF is going on w/ this?

 @RichardCunningham I listened to the section on the threaded headsets ... and relived that PITA part of MTB history. I remember headsets that would have a ratcheting feel from being overtightened. I think it was bearing getting repeatedly pounded into the race while riding.

Another beauty: Alum lock rings on steel threaded steerer tubes. And of course repeated compression / tension of that connection would wear out the softer alum and become sloppy. If I recall Specialized at least had an all steel headset that was durable.

 @RichardCunningham I remember reading this MBA issue in May 1994. It was an editorial where you advocated for the creation on the 25 inch wheel (along with shifters with paddles that made gears easier/harder on both sides - a la rapid rise)!

With hindsight being 20/20, what are your thoughts today about wheelsize? Have we gone too big? Or have we not yet gone big enough?

BTW - I always love hearing you on the podcast with the millennials!

 Front suspension is the #1 bringer of speed and comfort to bikes.

 28.99mm crank spindles

 I am gonna go with wheels I think. brakes are a close second.

 Pneumatic tires?

 I ride a 2003 Jami Exile, 26 wheels, rim brakes, 3x9 drivetrain, no dropper, crap suspension, and bad geo. Lots of modern things are better.

 Padded chamois shorts?

 Chain guides that weren't home made. Shout out to MRP then who ever brought in the top guide and bottom roller/bash guards we have now.

 Friction shifter FD's FTW. Yeah, I could set up most FD's OK, but it was arguably the least precise part of the drivetrain, if not the whole bike.

 @mikekazimer @RichardCunningham "the lever under the seat", you mean the Michael Jackson lever?

 Modern geometry trumps all other improvements, I say.

 Helmets

 The biggest cycling innovation is the invention of the wheel. Prove me wrong.

 Richard made this the best podcast you have ever done.

 Great podcast, nice to hear RC’s stories again, brings back good memories.

 Heck yes great to see RC back on here. Hoping he's a guest on more episodes!

 Power Post was mid to late 90's.

 Especially enjoyed this one! Thanks

 Easily suspension, image riding Rampage on a fully rigid, or even a hardtail

 Team "No Dropper"?

 If you had to pick you rather have a dropper or rear suspension?

 And how about toe clips? Anyone miss those? Good riddance!

 More RC please. I could listen to him all day every day.

 Water bottle mounts. No question

 Team "No Disc Brakes"?

 Having ridden the last 12 months with Sram wireless derailleur I couldn't go back to a cable system.

 round wheels

 acronyms.