Pinkbike Update: We're Testing Filters for eMTB Content & Racing Disciplines

 Is "WAKI" a category??

I kid...I kid..
...or do I?..

 agreed with ya leifgren.

 Same here. I just don't get it: why don't buy an MX Bike? Cheaper, low cost maintenance, less effort at all, ride more miles per hour...

 @StFred: ride less places. More expensive to buy and run and more expensive to go to tracks

 @bigtim: 40?

 @StFred: You're right. You just don't get it.

 I love this option. Although I wouldn't buy an e-bike, I am curious to see what they do with them. I'm not a big slopestyle guy, but if I filter those out, will I miss out on Semenuk's vids?

 @jclnv: how can you not tell the difference ? A emtb isn't twist and go. Still has pedals. Doesn't weight 100odd kilos. It's just a helping hand to the top of the hill

 @leifgren thank you for your post. At 47 I feel the same.

 @BenParfitterole: how can you tell if someone has a hacked throttle or not?

 @scary1: please a waki filter. tired of the keyboard vomit.

 I like the option. If people want to see stuff, don’t change anything and nothing will change. For people who choose to be more selective, for whatever reason, you now have that choice. Well played pinkbike.

 I’m with you mate, turn 40 next month work full time only ride couple times a week. Not interested in them.

 @mm732: I would literally pay a monthly membership

 @Cyberhatter: because everyone is in the same position as you right? Just because hour almost 50 and havnt had life altering health issues doesnt mean everyone else is in the same boat.
Put yourself in the shoes of people who might buy these bikes.

 @scary1: where do I sign up for that?

 @scary1: I hope it will be next week.

 You're all so out of touch with modern mtb eBikes. Have you gone out for proper days riding on one? They handle like DH bikes on the way down, and you don't need a chairlift or shuttle to get back up. They're pedal, not throttle assist. They are speed limited. You can't braap out of corners or up hill. You can ride more trails in the same time. In summary, more riding, more time in the mountains, no trail damage. Armchair critics need to go try one.

 @boardnz: I don’t think anyone is doubting the capability of an ebike. I think people are saying they aren’t interested in riding one. That seems fair. Not everyone is going to be interested in trying one. That’s ok too.

 @boardnz: How can you say on one hand 'more riding' but then also say 'no trail damage'? Every time down a trail causes wear to the tread of that trail. Making hotlaps on your moped sounds fun, but don't kid yourself that it won't take it's toll on the trail networks out there.

If every day is a shuttle day, all of the sudden your favorite local trail is going to have a LOT more tires running up and down it. Can't wait until we have to enter a lottery for a trail pass like they do for certain Wilderness sections now. That will but a load of fun /s

 @mikealive: Exactly. Also, the bikes are heavier (so are the riders generally) which causes more damage.

"heard at my favorite trails a couple of weeks ago from Ebiker "I couldn't make it to the top without this thing and now I can do a 1000 laps." Ruining the sport.

 @BenParfitterole: Im not a fan of riders who do that either. There are not lifts everywhere. They are at resorts. Totallk different and those trails show it.

 @butters1996: Every Gerry's kid does not deserve a PHD. Some things should be earned regardless your hurdles. Not saying everywhere but lots of local trails should stay human powered only.

 @Cyberhatter: at 73 I feel the same, it is walking up or riding up (with assist)

 @mikealive: So you've ridden one properly for a day or more right? or are you just an armchair critic? Of course more laps = more damage. I'm referring to no more damage than an equal lap on a standard mtb vs pedal asssit emtb. Just like some people who pedal all day. Or you know hosting an enduro/DH race on track for a day does way more damage. As I said no different than a chairlift or shuttle. Most of our local trails are shuttle or chairlift access. Sounds like you area just needs to sort its trail access out and not use eMTb's as an excuse for more riding.

 @boardnz: oh boy, here we go with the strawman accusations... yes dude, I've ridden them, demo'd them, had multiple versions at the shop for months at a time as I was in the industry for ~10 years. Is that good enough for you to allow me to have an opinion on them?

Yes, I agree with you--hosting a race weekend on a trail is *horrible* for the health of the tread, and it's why you don't see me campaigning for more races on the trails I ride. It's also why you rarely see multiple races on the same trails in a season.

Yes, sure, you are referring to the notion that an ebike does no more damage than a traditional mountain bike *per single lap*, got it. But we'll both just gloss over the fact that an ebike lets a person make many more laps than they normally would, thereby increasing the overall amount of damage done...because owning up to that simple fact wouldn't fit your narrative, right?

Look man, ride what you want so long as it's legal and not jeopardizing access for other riders. But let's not pretend that ebikes bringing about increased trail use is good for anyone but the ebike owner and the company selling them. If you think a train of squids clogging up your weekend spot, or having to enter a trail pass lottery because of insane increased usage numbers is a good thong because 'ebikes can increase access for the average joe' or whatever, then I'll leave you to sip your industry kool-aid. I'm fine without them. And when I get too old to ride, I'll find a new hobby, because I'm not a self-entitled jerk.

 @mikealive: Well it's not my fault it sounded like you hadn't touch one and umm you alreadying come off pretty self-entitled - "If you think a train of squids clogging up your weekend spot"...

I don't exactly ride anymore or any less on the trails, I just access them differently - instead of catching a chairlift up, shuttling or pedalling - I now pedal with assistance. It means I can ride on days I wouldn't otherwise, but it hasn't greatly increased my lap on lap of local trails. So yeah, your argument is not really holding tight. You're just casting a big f*cking net.

Its the same for suspension, same for disc brakes, same for 27.5, same for 29.5 - people hate change.

 @boardnz: *yawn* k bro. Pack up that circular logic and head to the closest booter and just seeeend iiiit. Happy trails.

 E-Bikes are for kooks

 Loved your comment

 @StFred: you have obviously never riden an MX bike or any dirt bike properly. MX has been called the second most physically demanding sport in the world. If you ever rode a 20 minute moto let alone a 40 minute moto you'd know that.

Then there's hard enduro... Its tiring just to watch.

The narrow minded like you cant open your mind enough to realise you work as hard as you want on any bike including emtbs. Had you ever riden one and looked at the possibilities you'd know the motor can be used to force your pace same as motorized treadmill. Then there is extreme climbing... open your narrow mind.

 @BenParfitterole: StFred is completely clueless.

 @BenParfitterole: it’s waaay more than a helping hand. When fully embraced, eMTB riding is done differently than on an acoustic bike. If an accomplished rider gets an ebike he or she won’t be riding it the same way they rode their acoustic rig. It’s a new way of riding.

 @mikealive: I thought we had ebike filters now...can we not filter out these stupid ridiculous comments or do we have to wait for these mindless self serving ebike haters to find a new hobby? Mountain biking is about having fun, regardless if one of your bikes might be pedal assist...

Saying ebikes damage trails more is simply not true. Some ebikes are now 36-40lbs, which is no heavier than a freeride or downhill bike. So if someone is heavy (220lbs+) compared to someone who is under 150lbs, than the heavy person should not be able to ride the trails according to you as they are 70lbs heavier and will damage the trail more. Also with ebikes you can explore more untamed trails and not necessarily ride the same trail over and over. Did ebike haters think of this, no, obviously not. Can we get a filter for ebike haters, as they obviously do not have a clue what they are talking about and it gets very tiring reading these narrow minded comments.

 @RowdyAirTime: Holy moly.. getting mad about and replying to a comment from A YEAR AND A HALF AGO. Speaking of finding new hobbies...might I suggest motocross? Enjoy

 @mikealive: Ooops, my mistake Mike. I didn't realize this was an old post as PB posted this again. No problem, it's all good. Actually many of us are hoping some of the ebike haters have found a new hobby instead of needlessly putting someone down just because they like to have fun riding bikes...

Most of us enjoy the downhill part of mountain biking and if you have a super long and steep vertical climbs to get to the trails, why not put a smile on your face while riding up and be more refreshed going down. That's what this is all about, having fun and not judging people that are out there trying to do the same...

 @RowdyAirTime: Well bud, if you bothered to actually read any of my posts on the topic, you'd see that I'm very much in the camp of 'ride what you want, where ever it's permissible to do so'. I don't care if it's an ebike or a trike, you do you. *However*, what I won't stand for are bogus claims or weak defenses like the one you've just posted. In your first reply I would have given you the benefit of the doubt, but seeing as this is a follow up response, I can indeed be sure that, yes, it was aimed at me. You refer to "ebike haters"...and?? When you go to the trail do you need approval from everyone at the trail head for the color of your frame or for what pedals you run? I'll go ahead and answer for you--of course not. So why do you care what other people think about the bike YOU bought and ride? Grow a spine dude.

"...needlessly putting someone down just because they like to have fun riding bikes..." This has all the constitution of a wet bowel movement. Built-in dishonesty, as it completely glosses over the very real impacts to trails that increased use bring, and, in the US at least, the potential for trail access restrictions because an assist motor on a bike makes a tenable stance on bikes in Wilderness areas much harder to maintain as the law is written now. But sure, it's all about feelings maaaan.. I just want to ride my bike maaaan... you're just a hater brooo... pfft.

On the chance that you'll again try to argue a non-point, I'll clarify--it's not the weight of the bike or the rider, it's the increased laps on the trail. Every person on an ebike has the ability to go farther on a trail, or do more laps on a trail. That is increased trail wear. 'But I don't ride any further than I normally would, I'm just too busy to keep my fitness/ have a physical injury/ whatever justification...so I ebike' Right. So if not for the ebike, that user *wouldn't even be on the trail*, so yes, still increased trail wear. In nature, this would be referred to as a natural thinning of the herd--and while I'm not speaking about riders actually dying, the natural tendency would be for someone to take up a different hobby, thus decreasing the trail rider base. Instead of thinning the herd, in the MTB industry this is seen as a 'new user segment', lol. And, because of warped expectations and human entitlement being at a peak right now, *of course* there's no reason that Ol' Johnny shouldn't get whatever his heart desires, right? No worries, they are already developing a gyroscope to keep a rider steady for when they are too impaired to even be able to balance. The next Big Thing™.

Like I said, ride whatever suits you, where it's legal to do so...makes me no matter. I ride with hot pink women's gloves that I love, and people flip me sh*t for it sometimes... doesn't keep me from enjoying my ride. And it sure as sh*t doesn't have me having a mid-life whining fest about all the 'haterz' in the PB comment section. Happy Trails.

 @mikealive: Complete BS you are in the camp of "ride what you want". You have clearly shown that you are against ebikes and like to try to put people down. Obviously you care about what other people ride (ebike hater), so don't think I care. I truly think everyone should have the chance to ride a bike if they are able, as life is too short and we must try and enjoy it while we are here. By the way, just because you can spit ugly words at people does not mean you have a spine more than others?

Seriously, your whole argument is that EMTB's have the "ability" to do more laps and cause more wear to the trail? What about people riding in very wet muddy conditions, does this erode the trail more than 1 extra lap? What about someone that is in much better shape than you and he does 2 laps to your 1 on a regular pedal bike, and they erode the trail more than you? What if someone goes riding everyday and you only go once every 2 weeks, as they have eroded the trail 14x more than you in just 2 weeks? What if the person riding a EMTB only does 1 lap every 2 weeks and you do 1 lap every day? What if your neighbour brings his 3 kids and wife and 5 bikes are now eroding your trails? Is this ok? With your argument it is really hard to understand what is ok and what is not? What's the difference, as it sounds like you are just jealous if anyone is on "your" trail more than you?

What if the EMTB rider is permanently injured and can luckily ride with the help of an ebike to help them get up very steep long climbs. Oh, I forgot you don't think someone that can use some pedal assist to make it easier to ride a bike should be put out to pasture and call that "a natural thinning of the herd". It also sounds like you say ebikes should not be human entitlement. Many injured athletes and ex pro mountain bikers ride EMTB's as it allows them to still do what they love and get out in nature plus it helps with rehab, etc. Mike says if not for ebikes (or moped's as you stupidly call them), anyone who rides one should not be out there eroding "his trails". What complete BS and such a self serving uncaring comment.

Ebikes actually are a great addition to mountain biking, especially where people know what they are talking about and are very useful (make it easier to help build and maintain trails), so your argument about ebikes limiting trail access needs to be addressed. EMTB's do not cause anymore damage than a regular bike and are not noisy, so again your unnecessary argument is not even worth reading.

At least you make it quite clear what you think and uncaringly speak of others. Speaking of whiners, you have been whining about ebikes and anyone who rides one, even if they ride regular bikes more than their ebike. If you whine this much now, I sure hope we don't have to listen to you whining on PB years from now? We sure don't need to ask where you stand about Covid (who cares kill all the old people...as that's a natural thinning of the herd). Careful of karma, as you could have some health issues or major injury one day and suddenly realize that maybe you should have been a much nicer and caring person, or just wander off into the pasture and drift away...

In the meantime, the rest of us will be enjoying riding our bikes and having fun, as that is what this is all about, not judging how many laps someone does or if they might be on a EMTB...Happy Trails!

 @RowdyAirTime: Your lack of ability to understand nuance or make precise arguments, and insistence on strawmanning me leaves me no choice to skip reading more than your first paragraph, and only offer you this in response: lol.

Cheers mate.

 @mikealive: you guys should both be embarrassed to be arguing in the comment section of a year old article. Stop. Go look at a cloud. If you still feel like the world needs to know how you feel, yell at the cloud.

 @mikealive: That's funny, as not once have you shown the ability to make any sense or explain why you have been so nasty to others. However, I do apologize if my strong arguments strawmanned you in any way. I do not like to put people down and that was not my intention. Again, my mistake, as I should have noticed this was an old post and not taken your ridiculous comments so seriously. It's all good. Ride on. Cheers

 @RowdyAirTime: "strong arguments" Jeezus christ. Like playing chess with a pigeon, honestly.

 @mikealive: Dude you are not only full of shit but also delirious. You definitely have some personal issues to deal with. Good luck and I'm happy that you found a new hobby playing chess with pigeons...lol

 I'm glad this whole thing can be boiled down to the fact you got your delicate feelings hurt and then you got mad about it haha. Because let's be honest here, that's the only thing you can actually engage in a debate here. Pinning things I didn't say on me then ranting about those things instead of any of the points I actually made--and trust me, I'm sure you *believe* you've made some actual counter points, lol. Alas, it's not too late to ask Santa for some thicker skin, or some decent debate skills, just an fyi.

"Arguing with an idiot is like playing chess with a pigeon; no matter the move, they will shit on the board and strut like they won". It's been real, Rowdy, but I'm signing off now. I wait with bated breath for your next work of genius, but I won't be wasting any more time responding here.

 @mikealive: Boo whoooo, what's the matter the bully does not like it when someone stands up to him. What a joke you are. Everytime you open your mouth you sound even more stupid and just more pea brain pigeon crap comes out. You have not made one valid argument yet and still continue to ramble on about nothing and try and put people down for no reason. Simply put, you sound like one of the biggest losers I've ever heard. I guess once you are a this much of a jerk, there's no changing that and you will always be a complete imbecile. I feel sorry for anyone that is close to you, or maybe you are just trying to be a tough guy behind your computer, but I'm guessing from your childish banter that you have always been a loser. Maybe one day you will grow up and not only respect others, but learn how to back up what you say, but I highly doubt it, and all of us on PB sure won't be holding our breaths waiting for that. Thank heaven we don't have to hear from you again, as many of us would ask Santa for a mikealive filter. God help you...

 @butters1996: Like 20-30 year old posers??

 @BenParfitterole: E bikes are low powered now but the bike companies will surely up the power each year to generate new sales, just like ATVs and jet skis . Mountain biking is a green sport, adding a motor is not saving the planet.

 @yellkayak: use less power self climbing than a tractor or some sort of uplift

 with that attitude you should get dirt bike and do like 20 descents in a day

 @ErnestFrigelj: ebikes are dirt bikes. They aren't going to get less powerful over time. They just need to start slow to get access to trails. High power hacks and throttles exist already.

 Double, sir

 @ErnestFrigelj: Most people don't have a garage and a pick-up truck to utilize a dirtbike. Plus they're loud and smelly.

 @vikb: They're not even close to the same. Try ride a dirtbike down a proper DH track, yeah possible. Fun & fast unlikely as f*ck.

You're so out of touch with modern mtb eBikes. Have you gone out for proper days riding on one? They handle like DH bikes on the way down, and you don't need a chairlift or shuttle to get back up. They're pedal, not throttle assist. They are speed limited. You can't braap out of corners or up hill. You can ride more trails in the same time. In summary, more riding, more time in the mountains, no trail damage. Armchair critics need to go try one

 Two weeks ago I chatted with the local bike shop owner (I'm in the French Riviera area) and 80% of the bike he sells are eBikes. The conventionnal MTB market is collapsing completly now.

At the same time, because eMTB are more expensive the average price for the bike sold is increasing. He told me that in France the average price for a Rocky mountain bike increased by 1000€ since Rocky Mountain offers eMTB.

The DH bike market is finish, the only DH bikes the MTB brand are selling are for rental shops located in the alpine resorts.

 @hpman83: That's just sad.

 @hpman83: Not here in the eastern US. Things are starting very slowly for high end class one eMTBs.
I think guys that DH, like myself, will start migrating to the ebike to get that same feeling without having to drive 3hrs and pay for a lift, but its still a few years away.

 @hpman83: it's the future. 'we can cover more miles and enjoy the outdoors bla bla bla'

 @hpman83: Well, I'm French but been living in Canada for 35 years so I know a bit about both sides and there's a true cultural gap between those two in terms of how ebikes are perceived. In Canada, the "conventional" mtb market is still strong and the only place I see e-mtb taking a chunk of the market would be in BC because of long and steep climbs (often on fire roads), just like in the Alps, Pyrénées or even in Provence. On the east cost, we have lower, older mountains that don't really justify buying an e-bike with all the drawbacks (weight, need to recharge batteries, cost) that come with those, plus the possibily that you'd be judged by others on the trail. I was in East Burke (Kingdom Trails) a month and a half ago and on the 1,000s mtbs I saw, there was just 1 ebike. So, even though it may not be a very scientific evidence, I don't see ebikes overtake regular mtbs before a long, long time.

 @hpman83: The conventional market is not collapsing. I guarantee bike shops are just selling more bikes. The demographic that has been waiting for decent ebikes are buying them up very quickly. These people likely had an old mountain bike they were struggling with, or have been off a bike for years! The demographic that want or need a conventional bike hasn’t really changed.

They shop I work in hasn’t sold an ebike to anyone under the age of 45.

 @StFred: Exactly. Can you believe these new fangled "Auto Mo Beels?" Or that there's a machine that will actually move you up a mountain on a chair?

Personally I'd never buy in to any of this technology. We're living in some crazy times.

 @TyroneM: You are aware that you live in a completely different part of the world, no?

 @ssteve: If young Europeans are buying ebikes then all hope is lost

 @DDoc: amen brother. i'm on the west coast and sold the dh rig and the dirt jumper for mine, and now i ride 6-7 times a week instead of the 3-4 on my enduro. figured a bike i'd ride 300x a year justifies selling a bike i ride 6-10x a year and haven't been disappointed in the least.

2 to 3 times the dh in the same time frame as an acoustic ride... it's no contest. dh simply wins in my book.

 @cool3: Great points. Add Colorado to the list of very strong traditional MTB market, but also a place where ebikes are gaining because of the long, steep climbs at altitude.

 @TyroneM: Maybe not where you live, but all my riding buddies and I have gotten ebikes and we are all well under 45. Still have our analog bikes but can't deny the fun we are having with ebikes, fitting in rides after work that we could not have dreamed of getting done in time before.

 @johnbalz: Nice!

 @cool3: not in bc atleat

 For me, it's the same reason I don't want to see cyclocross, touring or gravel bikes on Pinkbike. Sure you can ride them on dirt but they're not mountain bikes.

 @PhillipJ: You know you can turn the assistance off? I commute on one (it’s saving me about 2 hours a week in commuting time), ride it as an eMTB when I’m on my own and then ride it like a normal MTB (with a very heavy frame) on group rides.

And as the group rides start and finish a good few miles from my house, the other side of a large hill, it gets me home much quicker. Maybe I should instead drive to and from the group ride and then ride a much lighter normal bike because that isn’t cheating?

 So in the US trail access is precious. We don’t have right to roam etc. a lot of mountain bikers view (not sure if this would happen) emtb as a threat as people will ban all mtb access based off a few bikes having electric assist motors. Also throughout the US all bikes are banned in any area designated wilderness. This is a blanket ban in areas where horses are allowed. Don’t want to give anyone a reason to say no in the future if they lift the ban.

It’s awesome if you are able to use the tech to hang with your friends. I’m stoked people like martyn Ashton still get to ride too. Emtb have their place.

Another reason people don’t like them is it feels like it’s another new thing kinda being shoved in our faces that the industry wants us to buy. I have an aversion to that personally if someone tries to sell something too hard.

 @Woehlckabout: But the problem really isn’t eMTBs, it’s ludicrous access laws in one of the least densely populated countries on the planet.

Just in case I wasn’t clear, re. “It’s awesome if you are able to use the tech to hang with your friends.”

The tech is saving me time and energy when commuting and then it also speeds up the before and after bits of the group ride. But during the group ride I take the weight penalty and ride with zero motor assistance because I’m a strong enough rider and the bike rides so well as a normal MTB.

I’ve yet to come across a motorbike that will move uphill or along the flat with the engine off!

 @Woehlckabout: you make a good Point on Martyn Ashton. No one slated him for using an ebike. My injury in comparison was nothing. But you can’t judge a book. Not all ebike users are lazy or cheats. I got smoked by one going up hill the other day. I don’t worry about it. At least the bloke was out not sat on a sofa.
So I buy an ebike to keep riding. Then get abuse from people who don’t even know me. Some have a shallow view of the world.
Martyn‘s injury is easy to see. Others not so much.

 Ebikes are the perfect solution for people with injuries, I think the hate (or at least the reason I'm not a fan) is down to the side effects such as battery disposal in landfills and the need for insurance that I worry will spread to bicycles if they aren't kept completely separate in category

 @threehats: yep. It is definitely the ludicrous laws not the emtb. Just trying to explain why some people freak about them. Having the assist could allow more people to commute by bike which would be great.

Your situation shows just how many different use cases for the assist motor there is.

Sounds like you love yours and have fun with or without the motor on which is rad!

 @Intensevp: you are absolutely right. I don’t make any judgements as to why someone wants an emtb. I don’t get the hate in the comments about lazy. If that were the case the site wouldn’t show shuttle or lift accessed trails or videos.

Also judging by the flag you all can use your emtb on larger percentage of trails than the US.

Enjoy your ride and forget the trolls.

 No mater how you say it, an ebike has a motor, period. I have no problem with ebikes on roads and ohv trails. These are places designated for things with motors. Ebike content is the same to me as moto gp and motor cross racing, and should not be on a mountain bike website.

 @Unrealityshow:
"Ebike content is the same to me as moto gp and motor cross racing" - then you sir, are a moron.

 your friends are lame if they don't want to ride with you unless you get an ebike. I ride with slower people all the time, and instead of telling them to buy an ebike I just ride slower and enjoy their company. When my fast friends want to ride a big day with a ton of climbing I politely decline as I don't want to hold them up all day. It's not hard to be a decent person.

 The filter is about the PB reader's User eXperience, IE: Clutter, not about hatE.

 @DDoc: Rode one last year. It sucked. No challenge really. Ebikes are for the pusillanimous.

 @threehats: good for you. Still not a mountain bike.

 @threehats: i don’t think we need a CBT an ebike either....
No DVLA rules. So I think it is a bike.

 @Intensevp: for now...

 @secretninjaguy: Props for the hard word

 @threehats: Less densely populated, more naturally beautiful... Related? Don't want to become an industrial wasteland concrete jungle, but that by no means means I'm with the equestrians/rich old hikers who want to burn mtb at the stake. How about we strike a happy balance instead of an extreme?

 @mtbikeaddict: The UK isn’t exactly short of natural beauty - I live in the most densely populated corner but I’m still only a few minutes ride from a national park, with beautiful rolling hills that are criss-crossed by hundreds of miles of public bridleways (open to walkers, horse riders and cyclists) and footpaths (technically only for walkers but few have a problem with considerate MTB use) and pockets of woodland that are full of unofficial but long established singletrack. And I’ve walked, cycled and ridden horses all over the UK - a national park doesn’t need to be an isolated wilderness where humans cannot live or play, in fact the millennia of mankind living in the UK’s more beautiful landscapes has if anything enhanced them. Imagine the Lake District or the Dales without the patchwork of dry stone walls, or indeed Britain covered by forest as it was before man arrived.

I’ve only been to a handful of the US national parks but from my experience and further reading about them, I wonder why there’s an insistence on such a stark divide between wilderness and human habitation. And the ban on bicycles is at odds with why they were created - the mechanised vehicle exclusion was obviously for motor vehicles, not bikes which have lower impact than horses (even if they have a small electric motor assisting pedalling!)

 @Woehlckabout: Sounds like your trail access management needs to get it's shit together. Not everyone lives in the states. You're so out of touch with modern mtb eBikes. Have you gone out for proper days riding on one? They handle like DH bikes on the way down, and you don't need a chairlift or shuttle to get back up. They're pedal, not throttle assist. They are speed limited. You can't braap out of corners or up hill. You can ride more trails in the same time. In summary, more riding, more time in the mountains, no trail damage. Armchair critics need to go try one

 @Unrealityshow: It's actually MotoGP* (motogp without the space would be fine) and motocross* racing, not motor and then cross. Learn the terms correctly if you are going to use them in your arguments.

 @WRainey88: Obviously I do not follow either. Next time I’ll research the correct way of spelling a motorcycle race series to make sure my point isn’t lost.

 It'll matter when you start losing your trails because of over-use/abuse.

 @rippersub: if they are classified as mtb's(as they are in growing locations) and trail advocacy relies on mountainbiker numbers speaking up, wouldnt that give more weight to mtb trail advocacy?

 @won-sean-animal-chin: I think the thought process is that an emtb would cover more distance. So if you have the same number of riders they are using more miles of trail and you get increased use per rider. I think there is this weird us vs them mentality that people think emtb riders won’t advocate repair and build trails the same way a fully human powered mtb rider would. I don’t think it’s accurate. Also in many areas emtb are not allowed. If they are used or look too similar to regular mountain bikes we may see regular mtb s banned with them. A lot of the backlash is treating symptoms not the root of the problem which would literally require acts of congress for many areas.

The US perspective is vastly different to Canada or Europe.

 @Woehlckabout: because tgey can get deeper inyo the mountains their showing to be a useful tool for maintenance, in the US. Strength in numbers whether it be congress or othèr lobbying is key. Always was always will be. Its happening
youtu.be/3jGcc3RQiOA

 @rippersub: ... so by your logic, as someone who's ridden mtb for 28 years and a bmx before that, i'd appreciate it if you'd get off the trails since you weren't here first.

I was.

Sheesh.

 @won-sean-animal-chin: definitely an advantage for clearing large trees etc. reaching can’t imagine getting many photos from the ews without ebikes.

 @rippersub: Show your local trail management the benefits, more riders, more trails, trail builders rate them too! Because they must be so out of touch with modern mtb eBikes. Have you gone out for proper days riding on one? They handle like DH bikes on the way down, and you don't need a chairlift or shuttle to get back up. They're pedal, not throttle assist. They are speed limited. You can't braap out of corners or up hill. You can ride more trails in the same time. In summary, more riding, more time in the mountains, no trail damage. Armchair critics need to go try one

 I hope not.

 @brianpark: of course it will. internet these days is tailored to your liking, that's why so many people confuse opinion with "hating", they're not used to it anymore.

 @t-stoff: internet is not tailored to our liking, social media and browser results are tailored to maximize profits. It's a little bit different. But it leads to the same crap.

No matter what people say, electrically assisted physical exercise is pathetic if you're healthy.

 Who cares. This is politics and opinions. It a hobby. Give people the option to view the content they want to see.

Why doesn’t pinkbike cover bmx or road cycling? Because it’s a mountain bike site and the people who read it don’t give a shit about bmx or road biking. With mountain bike disciplines (and equipment) now getting more and more specific, it only makes sense that there will be readers who have no interest in certain types of content. I don’t need to expose myself to opinions about ebikes. I know that right now I have no real interest in buying one, or any content containing them. It’s nice to know that if the amount of evoke content becomes annoying I can turn it off.

 @sino428: Pretty much everyone in Pinkbike doesn't give a shit about ebikes, but why pinkbike keeps covering it? Oh yeah that's right, because money.

People get so hostile about ebikes, because the industry is pushing it in their throats forcibly and ruining the sport they love.

 @omartrs: I understand that. Which is why I think its just fine that they provide us that don't care about ebikes a filter. I have no problem with PB wanting to make money, and if they allow me to essentially opt out of that content its difficult for me to say they are pushing it down my throat.

 @zede: sure, but when I say internet, I say "each" of ours internet. People google for confirmation bias, they bookmark what they like, they friend and follow their preferences, apart from work this days, long where the times when you were exposed to the unpopular opinions on your group of friends, school, you had to, you had no other form of socializing and getting new info! Now you can secure yourself in tiny echo chambers as you like.

Today people can't stand that there are different opinions that can be vocal, that can be total opposite of what you stand, and maybe even disgust you and makes you furious.

You see that in politics a lot, in sports and here.
Pinkbike and the ebike thing is a perfect example of the extra sensitivities that people have with things they like. You see it all the time, they can't stand that you're not part of their team. Every time I argue (with arguments!) against an ebike I'm automatically a hater. I say "I don't have time to hate anything in my life, but there's thing I like, and others that I don't like and I voice my opinion". That? It's just too much for them to understand, I have to be called a HATER, a looser, a troll a whatever.

anyway. bring on the filters

 @brianpark: the filter does not work for the "must read this week" I still the thing about the electric cannondale motorbike.

 Having ridden motorcycles for 45 years and just got an EMTB I can tell you that EBikes are not the same as motorcycles. I get the same workout on my ebike as my regular bike just cover more miles to do it.

Glad to hear you are envious of me ;-)

 They're part of mountain biking in that if they don't cover it them they won't make as much money. Same as pro riders that shoot edits on them. I appreciate that they need to make money, but I'm not gonna watch your crappy moto edit.

 @MysticMCyclist: I think you people get so defensive about them because you know they're kinda BS. Maybe not all the way BS, but most of the way for sure.

 @Rucker10: yeah... it's total BS to enjoy yourself outdoors.

The funny thing is that the majority of people who get all worked up about ebikes are the ones who pride themselves on climbing, which interestingly enough, is the part of mountain biking that doesn't actually take riding skill. 1% of climbs take trials skills. the other 99% just take being in shape. Could get that running, road biking, power walking, or swimming, and let the people who have some mountain biking skills, pedal assist or not, ride less crowded trails with less whiners populating them.

Just a thought.

 @ranke: I mean maybe? Anecdotally that hasn’t been my experience. The handful of Scooter riders I’ve come across are gear collecting people of an obviously affluent nature that wouldn’t try for some back country epic even if they are on an Ebike.

Ultimately y’all can do whatever you want, but you’re still riding a bike with a motor on it, and that’s at least a little bit lame.

 @Rucker10:
Getting 2-3 times as much dh with a pedal assist is quite the opposite of lame. that's a win for anyone who prioritizes dh.

pedal assist bikes are only lame to those who put value on climbing. i don't.

 @ranke: Getting more DH is certainly not lame.

Getting it because your bicycle has a motor isn’t the lamest thing I’ve heard today but it’s up there.

 @ranke: "climbing takes no skill" ROFL WHAT?

 @ranke: Ah man...being in shape is a valuable skill all by itself.

 @mtbyoda: oh don't get me wrong. i see the value in being in shape. anything that lets me eat as much ice cream as I want at the age of 47 has value.

 @Mtmw you're so out of touch with modern mtb eBikes. Have you gone out for proper days riding on one? They handle like DH bikes on the way down, and you don't need a chairlift or shuttle to get back up. They're pedal, not throttle assist. They are speed limited. You can't braap out of corners or up hill. You can ride more trails in the same time. In summary, more riding, more time in the mountains, no trail damage. Armchair critics need to go try one

 @MysticMCyclist: Exactly. Anyone who has actually spent time on both understand how incredibly different they are.

 Well then there'd be all that "thinking for yourself" nonsense.

 They buckled under pressure from both sides, its a good solution and should put an end to the eHaters who are constantly derailing any real conversation or sharing of ideas.

 I’m uncomfortable with how polite this comment is. Appreciate the feedback.

 Seems like the Americans and Canadians have the most issues with ebikes. Europe is much more welcoming.

 Just scroll extra fast.

 Wouldn't have it any other way

 Yes this! I'm not into Fails Friday videos either or similar. I'm quite capable of falling off my own bike and having my own horrific injuries, I don't want or need to see other people's. It's off putting

 @IllestT: but they’re a good reality checks to counter the prevalent videos showing deities riding LooseFest and the such... I see those and think ‘hey I can do that, probably’ then I end up in a fail video. Some of us need the fail videos to remind us that we still suck. (And I probably still would in an ebike!) They’re a good grounding -to me-

 I agree, I'm sure most Ebike haters have never ridden an EMTB, or they do not live near big mountains with very steep long vertical climbs or they just want to sound tough, or they just like to complain a lot about nothing, or they are simply jealous and cannot afford one.

I've ridden MotoX and regular pedal bikes (mountain bikes) for years, and I also have a EMTB. It really shows how little most of these ebike haters know when they say a EMTB is a motorbike. There are nothing like a motorbike. EMTB's are a mountain bike with some pedal assist and nothing more. Hopefully these ebike haters will use their ebike filters so we don't have to listen to the garbage coming out of their mouth.

Mountain biking is about having fun, so in reality ebike haters are hating mountain bikers that want to have fun. Can't wait to see what these ebike haters will do when they get a major injury or get older and not as good shape as they claim they will never ride an ebike. I guess the ebike haters will just become couch potatoes wasting away and causing a huge health strain on their local economy...

 Yeah I'll look at doing a report or update in the next month or two.

 yes! i was just gonna ask for this! i think it will surprise lots of peeps.

 Yes, thank you Pinkbike. This is a great feature. And I too would be interested in the stats.

 I’m really curious to see which filters people use.

 Slack seat angles, no dropper, only 7 speed and worst of all no bottle mounts! Blasphemy.

 @brianpark: secretly this is just a masterful way to see what your current audience mountain bike demographic is.

 some people just don't care about sports. Just because i like to mtb doesn't mean i care at all what pros are doing. I filtered all the racing news so fast.

 Because they aren't as popular as much as before, in UK anyway. Just 5 years ago if you went to the 'DH' Trails in the UK most would be riding an dh bike. Now, enduro bikes can do these trails just as well, and you can also ride them home and do xc rides on them. I haven't seen a dh bike on the trail for years now.

 exactly They have done studies that show that there is very little difference with ebikes, and horses are way worse than bikes and ebikes. also, we have been riding them for almost 2 years and my buddy has a strava log and he says we only go max 2mph faster on our ebikes. fitness makes just as much difference. for example, I lent my out of shape buddy my turbo levo and still kicked his ass. It was a good ride and without the ebike it would have sucked instead we had a great ride.

 How about an ebike schralping all the corners three times more than a mountain bike? They're not mutually exclusive.

" They have done studies that show that there is very little difference with ebikes"

The IMBA study showed that was little difference when ridden the same amount, I doubt anyone who's buying an ebike to make the climbs easier is only going to do the same number of km as they would have on a mountain bike.

 People helping people - it's powerful stuff.

 Stay tuned.

 Yep, or if you're not logged in, you're gonna be seeing a lot more...

 @rippersub: Already seeing the comments reflecting the desire to mod/hack the software and batteries in order to achieve higher speeds and power output - as in the moto world. If trail managers don't address this on multi-use, multi-direction trails soon, I predict negative conflict that will affect anyone enjoying the outdoors on two wheels.

 thats like posting up a billboard at the North Pole or running all the ad's at the end of the TV show....they make money because everyone is forced to see it weather they want to or not...

 @rippersub: for sure, they'll try to push crappy E-bike ads on us either way. But now that they plan to have "mOaR e-BiKe CoNtEnT!1!!" they can milk even more of that E-bike advertising cash.

 In theory all ebikes are required to have a liability insurance because they are motorized vehicles.

All the bike shop that normally cowardly shut up in case of trail access issues are saying "boohoo it's not ok we want to sell e-bikes without telling people they need and insurance" to the governments. It's pathetic.
As you say, Bosch and mainstream ebike makers are lobbying together extra actively to get a more favorable legislation. At the end of the day, money will decide everything, as always.

 @zede: just out of curiosity, is there a wattage limit that has to be exceeded before the liability insurance is required in Austria? I know in Western Australia they're limited to 250 watts but curious to see if there's similar limits in other countries.

 Yeah it’s 250 watts in the UK @Blackers:

 I want the opposite. Zero use for that and if my bike had cage mounts it would bug me like a front derailleur mount.

 it literally doesn't change anything...you cant blame them for wanting to make money....have you ever tried an ebike? they're fun! If you have an electric coffee grinder you have no excuse lol

 @housem8d: Funny thing is I actually have a hand grinder and cop nearly as much s**t for it as ebikes do!

 @Hermux: LOOOL

 Mostly according to the shitloads of eMTB riders you see on the trails now.

 @brianpark: I haven’t seen any info about the sales figures outside of anecdotal stories from commentators. Maybe I missed something but are there any articles about the numbers of emtb to mtb sold by each brand and the locations where they are selling?

I’ll try to google see if I can find something.

 @Woehlckabout: well I can tell you that here, half of the bikeshops of the city switched to e-bike shop only.

In ten years, I don't think any bikeshop I'm the city will still sell regular high end mtb.

 @brianpark: LOL! They're not even 5% in BC.

 @brianpark: i don't think the retirees on electric bikes at my local trails are reading Pinkbike.

 @zede: I believe it. They seem to be more popular in Europe than North America.

 @brianpark: I've seen a total of 2 (being ridden by shifty, guilty-looking deviants)

 You're so out of touch with modern mtb eBikes. Have you gone out for proper days riding on one? They handle like DH bikes on the way down, and you don't need a chairlift or shuttle to get back up. They're pedal, not throttle assist. They are speed limited. You can't braap out of corners or up hill. You can ride more trails in the same time. In summary, more riding, more time in the mountains, no trail damage, and if you hate on these I hope you put DH bikes or Bikepark riding in the same boat. Armchair critics need to go try one.

 @boardnz: typical ebike rider comment that refuses to see the problems.

1- Forgetting to mention the speed limit can be removed easily (as any ebike shop will tell you, "I can't do it for you but watch this YouTube video")
2 - this voids your "can't brap uphill" point
3 - ebikes are heavier, go faster uphill, and can be ridden longer = more trail damage.
4 - mountain biking is a philosophy : either you sweat to earn your turns, either you're too lazy/want to ride more/etc and you ride crowded trails in bike parks. (This point is debatable depending on how common/regulated is shuttling in your region)
5 - ebikes will inevitably bring more people, farther, on trails that had less traffic before. This means wherever trail access is a problem, the situation will get worse.
6 - ebikes allow people to do things they could not do before. Which sounds cool but which can also be a problem depending on the people
7 - in cities, ebikes are a problem with people riding over their normal "capabilities". An old guy that rides at 25km/h is a problem when he can't turn his neck to pay attention to the surroundings nor indicate with his arm on which side he is turning.
It's less of a problem if he pedals two times slower because you have the time to see him coming.

 @zede Refuse to see the problem? I've been riding pedal MTB for 20 f*cking years.

You just want fewer people riding, so you can have the trails to yourself. You sound entitled.

1. It's human nature to push the limits - I know you can hack them and generally, people do it for the road commute access. It eats your battery, puts extra strain on the components & voids your warranty. Personally, I don't see any reason to hack mine.

2. Most people don't hack them for the above reasons. So yes, the majority of eBikes aren't barping uphill.

3. Again more people riding is your issue. The trails are there for riding, eBike or not. More riders more funding, more volunteers, more trails and more regular trail maintenance

4. Entitled opinion. I sweat plenty enough after emptying the battery on my eBike, I just happened to ride 2/3x the distance of my regular bike and get to do it more often. I get to feel more alive, more often - it's f*cking good for the soul escaping the city life - more people should do it, more often.

5. Sweet as, more people riding again

6. Darwinism 101 - you could literally say this about lots of things - horse, car, bike, plane, google maps

7. As above - I guess you want Scooters banned too?

You're talking about the 1%, the world has already gone PC enough.

 @boardnz: typical, as I said.
I bet you also heli ski and shuttle...

And yeah electric f*cking scooters have nothing to do on the sidewalks, nor on hiking paths

 Gtfo of here

 Yep. That one wasn’t tagged properly. Should be fixed now.

 Can I just see Women'sXCO. please?

 Looks like you aren't going to have to wait until tomorrow.... P.s. ebikes aren't mtbs

 @Ozziefish: Exactly. They're Mopeds

 Trail erosion. Hah. Wanker.

 The dev team is working on it!

 If you’re on mobile the filter will work properly, you just have to set it on desktop. But yes, we will run the eMTB content we create globally now, and let people make their own decisions.

 @rippersub: so log in then .... what is the problem?

 @MysticMCyclist: needs to find a reason to hate. Give him a minute he'll think of something.

 @brianpark: lazy coding

 Yeah..ads..

 Can we filter out upset Americans?

 @Obidog: There'd be non left.

 @Obidog: hey!

 @fatduke @obidog There is an EWS race at Northstar in California next month you blithering daft nincompoops!!!!!!!!

 @endlessblockades upvote for the use of blithering.

 Can we filter out pompous Brits?

 @mtbikeaddict: That would be road cyclists............................................kidding.

 @fatduke: haha all in good fun

 Anyone else? It seems to be working properly for us. Are you logged in?

 @brianpark: It disappeared for me! Adios CannondalE

 So filters are like e-bikes ?

 Nailed it!

 The best way is to completely ignore ebike content. Pinkbike earns on your views and comments, even when trolling you show that it's worth for them to cover ebikes. Ignore it and let the mother nature decide.

 You are living in dreamland if you think your vomments and opioions have any impact on bike sales :-)

Unless your comment was ironic rather than moronic of course.

 Type in e bikes to google and fucken hate click all the ad words listings to make those fuckers pay!!! Saturday night fun!

 @MysticMCyclist: Oh I know they do.

 Develop an EMP device.

 Not true. It's a shit show, and the vast majority of e-bikers does not have an insurance like required by EU for all motorized vehicle, the cohabitation is peaceful only because most e-mtb sticks to the fireroads and because almost no incident occurred on the trails. In the city it's a mess, there are accidents every weeks

In bikeparks it is already a problem that people can repetitively lap the trails without paying for the lifts, and the only solution they have found is to rent the E-bikes for more € than real mtb.

Also ebikers seem to struggle to understand that nobody going uphill by foot or by bike will give them the priority when they also go up.

 mh731
well said! 100%

 Plenty of people I know have ridden ebikes and not had any more, or even less fun, than a mountain bike. It's a stupid argument in the first place and doesn't hold any water.