It seems every few years we're due a hot new take on what a stem should be, and not without good reason. Stem, handlebars and cockpit dimensions can have such a huge sway over our body position, riding style and technique that it's only natural they should be under a state of near-constant refinement.
There is one idea that just keeps on circling around - some kind of zero offset stem. Mondraker made waves around a decade ago with their
Forward Geometry Concept and more recently Rulezman Suspension has brought their
own take on the concept to market.
BNB RR Stem Details• 35mm bar clamp, with 31.8 shim supplied
• 150mm base to bar centre
• Features a -15mm Reversed offset
• 7075 T6 Aluminum
• Black, gold or silver options
• Weight: 393 grams
• Price: $400 USD
•
bemorebikes.com Both of these options brought up points and concepts that very much go against the grain of how conventional frame and stem design works. What Mondraker took away in stem length they could be said to have added to the top tube, and Rulezman suggests something similar, only they say to consider sizing a frame up.
Of course, to say that either of these brands just made a stubby stem and called it a day would be wholly unfair - and they both have a whole slew of other refinements across the bike. Rulezman's reasoning again suggests longer rear-centers. This is something I'm a big fan of, and where I consider a possible new avenue of design springing up. They also suggest that the 10-20mm stems brought forward by Mondraker all those years ago were somewhat limited by other geometry dimensions not compensating for the inherent rearward weight bias that will come when you move to a stem that is both shorter and higher.
Both of these ideas are genuinely interesting, and I particularly enjoyed Seb Stotts's article above regarding Rulezman's offering. However, today the stem in question is from the American brand Be More Bikes, and we're focussing on their unique take on stem design, as well as questioning whether looks can be deceiving and it's not that different after all.
Bold Looks, Yet Even Bolder ClaimsThe bicycle industry is full of passionate people, and Bronson Moore is one of those people. His stem isn't something he's thrown together in CAD, ordered a thousand units of and then happily moved on and forgotten about. Speaking to him at Sea Otter earlier this year it's clear he lives and breathes this weird and wonderful creation, and I have so much respect for people like him.
The stem looks wild, and its claims are similarly grandiose. BMB's copy breaks down the stem's features into two key areas - the raised height and the reversed offset. Let's start with the former.
In no particular order, some of the claimed benefits are that the stem puts a rider's arms at a better angle to the bars for descending with confidence, and encourages a bend at the elbow and more room to maneuver before your joints reach their maximum extension. The increased distance between arms and feet is said to grant more leverage over the bike, help you ride with more weight through your feet and less with your hands, and let you have a calmer and more comfortable attack position, similar to what you would have on a dirt bike.
In terms of the reversed offset, the copy states it can calm the floppy feeling of slacker bikes, give better control to let you load side knobs more effectively, and enable the rider to make tighter turns; the position is supposed to stop the front wheel from tucking in extreme steering angles and give you a greater feel for the front tire's contact patch, meaning you can carve the rear with more confidence.
These claims could prove to be game-changing. Unlike the other novel ideas challenging "stem convention," this stem doesn't claim to be part of a greater geometry concept. They state specifically that you don't need to upsize your bike.
So far, so radical.
Can This Position Be Achieved With Conventional Components?During testing, I became curious about how this actually compared to typical parts that we had in our Squamish HQ. I've ridden with high-rise bars before, and like so many of us I'm familiar with the limitations, as well as the gains. Sometimes, with an extremely tall front end going between the edges of the tire feels like crossing no man's land. There is balance, but transitions between turns feels somewhat vague, and the front can lack grip and small deflections can start to be a real cause of instability, especially if there isn't enough weight on the front wheel to keep it balanced and tracking straight and true. Being on the Y-axis isn't so bad, nor is being lent, but for me, the transition through the vertical plane can feel unsettled.
I fitted the rather imposing A76 bars from Answer which, it may surprise you, feature 76mm of rise. The bars put my hands at a very similar height to the BMB stem, if only 80mm further forward. To explore this further, I rotated the 40mm stem 180 degrees and refitted the bars. I went for a ride around the car park and two things were confirmed to me - I didn't particularly like it, and yet it felt oddly familiar.
Climbing ImpressionsRiding the stem puts you in a very unorthodox position, which is kind of the point. Immediately I thought of people I've met over the years who have back issues, and how this would be a great option to try. I also thought of people wishing to learn how to bunny hop and, again, I thought this would be a great teaching aid. I then went onto the trails and the endless possibilities of what this stem could do began to dry up.
How a bike fits is very subjective, and I'm not going to bore you by telling you that how a bike fits my body should be the single most concerning thing that you should happen across on Pinkbike today. However, I found that when riding along the flat and climbing this stem put me in a tiring position that I would find hard to hold over long days on the bike. Normally, I like to have a degree of support from my bones, joints and skeleton, and I don't believe we want our core to be engaged for great chunks of time. I like my elbows to be just back from locked, with my arms supporting my upper body even on bikes where the front is low.
The RR stem had me feeling more like I was in something similar to a plank position on gradual climbs, and a town-bike when things got steeper. I'm happy to admit I'm not a gym fiend, but I would say that I never normally struggle in terms of upper-body bike fitness. However, my triceps felt like they were constantly preloaded as they tried to keep the front weighted. When it got steeper or more technical, I felt like I had to practically put my chest on the stem. On the right climb, this stem not only lacks grip on the front, making you see-saw front and back as you search for traction, but is also downright exhausting.
Front-wheel lifts are a breeze, mind you, and if you're somebody that snagged their front on roots or square edges then this stem will help that.
Descending ImpressionsTo ride this stem on a regular bike, in this instance a size large Transition Spire, felt completely out of sorts. I don't wish to be the bearer of bad news, but I don't think you can make such a massive change to how the rider's mass weights a bike and not treat it as a wholesale change.
Front grip was lacking, and searching for it could result in lunges and pushes. There was a balance to be found when leaning, but the window was small and ineffectual. More often what happened was you would find a lean angle that you could begin to trust, only for the front to begin to wash and the large spread between contact patch and hand would come around and punish you, and you could feel like your hands would lose a lot of height. This wasn't so much the sensation of handlebar flop, where you feel like you fall into the inside in some ways because the tire is gripping, but rather an enhanced and exaggerated version of the wheel washing, a bit like hitting a wet root while dragging your front brake.
In back to back runs I compared it to my standard 40mm stem and 35mm riser bar.
Preloading the front while braking was also a real challenge when grip was at a premium, as was that feeling of
falling onto rails as you enter a turn, weighting the outside foot and modulating the grip with your inside hand.
On flat-out, straighter sections, it could feel okay - but only in the way a high-rise bar would, and it offers benefits with not only the trade-off you're familiar with, but a near turbocharged version of them because of the reverse stem. I'm a big believer in heavy-feet-light-hands but this takes the theory beyond an extreme that I am comfortable with.
I spoke with Bronson, and he seems accepting that this stem won't be for everyone and that it will suit certain frames, positions, and techniques more than others. He even explained that he wants to use this stem as a stepping stone to a more holistic concept, which sounds like a great idea to me. A balance between two points is the result of both placement and consideration, and I'm curious to see the frames that he eventually makes to account for the super high front of his stems. He's also working on a second version with slightly less height to hopefully fit a greater range of riders on a wider variance of frames.
@MI-Corey: I’m pretty sure it’s just Bronson and there is no team of sales people. No idea who you saw.
www.rootsandrain.com/rider12580/bronson-moore/results
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1S4sLYNhiOE
Skip to 05:08
He's far left dunning Kruger
I do wonder what the difference in stack height of him using the reverse stem with a shorter travel single crown versus using a standard stem with a longer travel double crown. Maybe the stack height numbers are not out of whack as much as it may seem with how odd and extreme the product looks. Who knows?
There's only one use case for this stem: If a bike has a gigantic reach, long-ish chainstays and a tiny stack. Think Nicolai levels of long and slack. In any other case it would do terrible things to the position of the riders center of gravity.
However not even my bars are as high as that!
That said, this thing is clearly whack for 99.99% of people.
I don’t think it is for me, but then again I still like barends.
I met that guy on the trails @ Tamarancho. Man, that was an experience I won't forget...
This is a product like altitude training masks, bro science. If it worked as hyped we would all be on them already, at least top racers would.
I’m pretty sure that guy doesn’t even make bicycles
www.peterverdone.com/i-dont-make-bicycles-i-make-weapons-systems
Also, the Pacenti P-Dent is a way more elegant solution to what you are going for with that bar and stem.
(disclaimer: I do not have a portfolio)
www.peterverdone.com/wiki/index.php?title=PVD_WarBird_SS
A Pacenti P-dent handlebar and stem are a marginal solution and is not capable of producing the condition that I have. If you attempt to replicate the geometry in a drawing with that bar you will see a huge difference.
Not a "Complete liberation in design!"
What is this "condition" you are touting here?
And finally, is this class leader, from a 2018 post, still residing in your basement? How is it possible no major manufacturer has not paid you bou-cou (sp?) bucks for this amazing design?
Seems like it is quite fitting you put that link in the comments on this stem...they're both destine for the same fate.
(disclaimer: I do not have a portfolio)
it's a bit misanthropic to dismiss people because you deem they don't add value in the way you like to add value. everyone has a portfolio, it's at minimum the data they've acquired and applied. their setups. small tweaks you don't necessarily see. even as a bit of a misanthrope myself, i find that quite sad.
The other posts comments anonymously on message boards and 'races'.
Show me.
Also, 99.44% (rough numbers here) of "high performance bikes" have rear suspension. Even weight weenie XC racers are competing on full suspension.
No idea who your clientele are for these creations.
What bike manufacturers are using your designs or patents?
(you know, ones that have 'solid development programs')
Here's the thing and it effects many folks on message boards, just because you don't understand this topic, it doesn't mean I don't. Maybe you should read a few of my posts, listen to the interviews, or watch the lectures. It may help you.
This is why it's important that you build a portfolio of your work. It keeps you accountable to others...but also yourself. I can't do low level work as that doesn't raise my portfolio. I have to do better work every time. That means every project is much harder than the last and I've been doing this for 35 years or so.
Anonymous message board folks have nothing at all.
I have read some of your posts. You put your 5'2" wife on an S4 size Specialized. Most would think that's bonkers. But I guess you are way more advanced that anyone else here.
A lot of it is just your opinion on things...calling bikes "fast", esp. hardtails is comical. Riders are fast. Bikes only augment or impede their potential for going fast.
You know people that's great. But where are your designs being used? Do you have a full suspension design you've created? Patented?
Just answer some, any of that...I am truly curious.
Yes. Riders are fast. But we can put that rider on a bike that takes advantage of their particular skills or makes up for their particular weaknesses to advantage them. I demonstrate that I'm able to do that.
You haven't even started asking me the right questions.
So this is ultimately the issue...you spout off on things like this statement, asserted as fact, when the reality is this is simply your opinion. @TEAMROBOT and Greg Minnaar for example may think that is utter bullocks. Both are faster and more accomplished on a bike than either of us, esp the GOAT. (obviously)
So please humor my simple question: what is one example of your work used by a major bike manufacture?
(apologies if that is not "the right question")
I don't believe that either of your examples has ever produced a dimensioned print of a bicycle that has been seen. I've also never heard either peak about bike geometry outside of marketing points. So I would question what was being brought to the discussion aside from "these guys ride fast".
I do find it funny that last year was the first that Minaar's race bike had a longer front center than my hardtail trail bike. I can finally stop laughing. But you didn't notice that, did you. Nope.
Please start asking the right questions.
If someone was using your design, or even contracted you to design geometry for a bike, you would have at least alluded to it...but you didn't.
You talk like you have Dave Weagle's portfolio...but ya don't.
The fact Charlie never worked with an engineer to develop a bike is irrelevant to the fact he prefers a CS length. That is a silly assertion.
When someone has a 'preference' outside of a real development program, we call that a guess. I don't work with guesses. That's why this is so important. Hoping that you've drawn an informed conclusion in a pure vacuum of information is not how development work is done. But you don't know that.
Maybe you should try drawing a bike. You might learn something.
Have you actually tried all options of CS vs front center lengths or are you taking some of that for granted?
Really just reading here (and being informed by your own writing on the blog) it seems you claim to make no assumptions about bike design, yet my reading of it makes me think you have. Not to be argumentative but actually asking, how many of all possible options (out to ridiculous ends because until they have been tried right?) have you really tried?
Also, I've heard it said that one catches more flies with honey than with vinegar...
In general, regarding the two parameters you mention. The front center was increased until the terrain that I ride limited it. Rear center was reduced until met with physical limitations or adverse climbing with the chosen saddle location. There isn't much advantage to long rear centers as the bike becomes very clumsy, especially with proper front centers. But I've had bikes up to 440mm. Yucky stuff.
Most of the work these days is figuring out how to get a steeper head angle. That's where the money is now.
Either I'm missing the joke or what? I ride an 'average modern' trail 29er and it has 430mm chainstays and your claim is the extra 10mm is that bad?
I don't know, it seems a bit like you're trolling...
Also, I show the context for that in my detailed prints. I'm very exact about what I'm doing. Are you matching that? Like, you're saying that 30mm longer is not worth talking about. I'm saying it is. One of us has prints for the last 20 years worth of setups.
Thus, marketing long rear centers and short front centers is a business decision.
Paul, Peter, I would love a podcast with you guys and maybe throw in Chris Porter and see what comes out of it. I think you all have some great ideas and have all tested those ideas but come from very very different ends of the spectrum.
Not saying that means absolutely you're wrong, but as a lonely outlier it feels like maybe you're just making up your own nonsense because I'm super happy with how my modern bike rides.
430mm chainstays are plenty short for me, I personally don't dream of having my weight further towards the back wheel.
But that's just me.
Take for example, the Specialized Status. It has what most think are short CS @ 425 for all sizes.
If you read online reviews, both established media and rando internet hack, the consistent message is that in the S1-S3 sizes, the handling is good. Once you move to the longer front centers on the S4, S5...it feels unbalanced.
Now take a 410CS with a front center longer than Greg Minnaar's V10...throw on there something similar to the BMB stem reviewed here.
I guess if you have drawings of it in your portfolio...it somehow works. Not only does it work its' fast.
I am still laughing...but you didn't notice that, did you?
I make predictive changes, generation after generation, based on system parameters and measurements. I evaluate the changes and make further changes for the next generation. I keep records and have over time. That's development.
Now, I tell every aspiring racer or athlete that they need to do the same. They have to. Every equipment change or purchase needs to be predictive (in fact). Not just a retail fantasy. How else could one choose a bike on the showroom floor?
You say you're happy. Ignorance is bliss. You don't know what your current setup is. You don't know your last. You don't know what the actual changes are. You can be as happy as you like but that's just faith, not fact.
Why wouldn't you learn to measure your bike? I demonstrate the up side, continually. I make a solid case. Show me ANYONE making a better case or showing a better case....and show me what you do (that isn't just retail fantasy).
www.peterverdone.com/windys-trail-crusher
"The rear center length of 432mm isn’t overly long like most bikes have gone with to their detriment. It’s actually quite good. Still, I wish that they had done more work to bring that down. 430mm or less would be pretty spellbinding on this platform. "
Oh, that's rich...
Still waiting for you to answer the direct questions. Clearly you are afraid it exposes you as the fraud you are.
Dave Weagle must be laughing his ass off.
I put my name on the ledger every day. People with real life names know mine. Nobody knows who you are.
Maybe you need to learn how to be a man (or woman)? Men and women don't have to hide who they are.
You're just being rude, not educational. And it seems clear you're making some fairly significant contradictions between your blog and here.
And just because most of us don't obsess over the details you seem to, and feel compelled to write and share, does not mean we are all idiots suffering through riding horrible bikes.
I read your bike setup for Windy and it's, uh, freaking bizarre. But hey, if she's happy riding it go right ahead. But you sir are the outer reaches of the fringe. And no manufacturer seems to buy into what you're selling so where do you get off being such a dick about all this?
You know people that's great. But where are your designs being used? Do you have a full suspension design you've created? Patented?
That is a straight up direct question...you taking the fifth repeatedly is answering it for everyone.
I think I'm done here. Maybe if I'm really bored at the next Philly Bike Expo, and you're there, I'll say hello. Would LOVE to see you ride the 'Falcon at the Wiss.
You've got a lot to learn. I hope you get yourself together by the time you leave home for college. The world is going to eat you up if you don't.
The 2 of you need to take this playground bs to DMs.
Why would I want to measure my bike to be sure it matches with the geometry chart? Some of us prefer RIDING these bikes rather than the obsession about their details.
And I'll admit, I've read a lot of your stuff, but I'm not even slightly convinced to go measure my bike because... It works as I hoped it would, it does the things I ask of it, and that makes me happy.
To not dive down the Alice in Wonderland hole you seem happy to live inside, doesn't mean I'm some idiot, nor that ReformedRoadie is an idiot either. You've been the most obnoxious here, you've been the one spouting wild, unproven (at least to any scale commercially) concepts that might even be correct, but you seem more like the guy tilting at windmills.
But you at least make beautifully made weird. I will give you that. And I like the nerd value.
As the Klingon say: Heghlu'meH QaQ jajva!
"I make predictive changes, generation after generation, based on system parameters and measurements. I evaluate the changes and make further changes for the next generation. I keep records and have over time. That's development."
But that doesn't mean development, it means recording your changes. But you saying 'predictive changes' means you're putting your own preconceived notions in there. Our at least that's how I see it.
I asked about CS length and your response was so nut job it's hard taking you seriously on here. If you were a true 'random' I wouldn't be bothering. But you're making HUGE assumptions as your own words evidence. You say things like 'yuck' about 440 CS?
Maybe as the nutter on here listen to how you might sound.
I'm not claiming your bikes don't ride well on the mellow Marin terrain, but that's not the reality of where some of us PNW folks ride. And I'm not even claiming they wouldn't ride well at my local, but realize you are speaking from this bizarre place and help people to learn to understand you, not insult them, marginalize them or any of it.
Others do want higher performance and will do what it takes to get it. It's not many but they exist. I try to teach others what that is. Again, you aren't interested in that beyond reading my posts and feeling good that you're right because you own a bike. Fine. Very very few people will ever do more than buy crap at a store and feel good about that. That's never been me.
You don't understand how valuable my information is. Fine. It's over your head. Lot's of people watch NASCAR. Few work developing F1 cars. That's how this is. It doesn't mean that I'm wrong. It just means that you like watching NASCAR. I'm doing the work.
I've been at this a long time. I do the work and show it. I know a few others that put the work in as well. They have a portfolio of their work. Folks without that are just consumers.
I'm not saying Peter is right but we need people exploring the outer fringes to see where the limits are. Without those people we are stuck in the middle. I think there are a lot of people who are content with their bikes as they are and are not willing to try different things to see if it makes it better / worse.
Chris Porter (Geometron) and Leo (Pole) had no fear letting others test their more extreme creations...
RE: the Nascar reference...all I am seeing is PVD wearing Ricky Bobby's 'ME' fire suit.
This is telling, eh?!.
But, have you actually emailed the editors on here for a real review of something off of the beaten path? Every once in a while they do test random stuff that I'm seriously doubting they got paid to review.
Or he'll, get Andrew Major on NSMB to review it, seems exactly up how alley.
And I mean that slightly tongue in cheek, but also seriously.
How could the world know you've figured out how bikes should really be unless you help us learn?
And like, if it's a bike being custom built for one customer how relevant should we expect that to be to the entire industry.
Also, you realize that bike brands that get reviewed send out press releases, and offers of demo loaners. So to my understanding it is literally YOUR JOB to send them the info, to offer up your bike to get tested to see your concepts brought to light.
I've been playing this game online for the last 25 years, and I started 8n the industry 35 years ago.. I'm quite well known to anyone who has tried to study bike tech. They don't write my name but they grew up with my work in their search results.
The point is, they aren't interested in bicycles. They are interested in marketing and advertising. That is the only thing of value...selling you crap. That pays their bills. All the media, youtubers, and influences. Sales.
If that were not the case, we would see very different behavior. It's simply incentives and motivations.
But again, you claim to be the secret keeper of these truths. And also true is that you expect investigative journalism and that's probably not what the average reader even wants. So unless you're going to put it into someone's hands to independently test it seems you're kind of polishing your own knob here.
Seriously, email someone like Andrew Major from NSMB, he's a full rigid, single speed kind of guy that rides the North Shore. And he has some pleasantly offbeat thought on bikes in his articles. And I'm interested in trying something like your bike, but I'm here, you're there and I don't even have a website, nor a portfolio so who would care? But I would also be interested in reading what someone like Dario or Henry might think of it.
Anyway, it's been fun. Hope to get to ride one of your creations someday and but you a beer. But I think I'm done here.
Listen, my work is making better bikes. It's not fixing bicycle marketing in the world. You can do that but I'm old enough to know what a stupid that idea is.
I'm cutting metal for prototypes. RIGHT NOW. What have you been doing?
Only in SIMULATIONS has it passed any testing, this is not the stage of a development process to be released to the public, but at least when riding it "feels secure." They should stop selling these before they have done real lab testing. This is potentially dangerous otherwise.
This isn’t a seatclamp, if it fails badly it could equal big mashup
Just from my eyeball FEA it's massively over built. What do your eyes tell you?
My eyes tell me f*ck all other than this stem needs lab testing, especially for fatigue failure.
It’s less impressive when you actually look at the results. Not sure what category he’s racing in but 1/3 is hardly conclusive proof of anything.
In fairness though the clip lends credence to what you found while testing the stem yourself - he looks like his weight is far too far back on the bike and as a result can't keep control of his front wheel, while blowing through his rear travel.
yoshimuracycling.com/collections/stem/products/endh-stem-base-kit-dmb-base-k
with this reversed www.onoffcomponents.com/en/krypton-dh-cnc-integrated-10mm
and these bad boys www.sandmbikes.com/product/hardgoods/bars/6-5-bruiser-bar
with a shim problemsolversbike.com/products/handlebar-clamp-shims
Props to HQ for not repeating the claims that the inventor makes about how it improved his race times. I remember Seth's Bike Hacks doing that. When you dig into the actual races, it doesn't make a compelling case.
Most likely not- but it’s the only thing that I can see missing.
youtu.be/g0gdbiwEEYw?si=mFZjs1RYJ5BArU6q
www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0gdbiwEEYw&ab_channel=BrianCahal
It’s absolutely nuts that it’s made it to market, based on the belief of someone who’s quite obviously (from the video) a mediocre rider.
It says a lot that many of the other YouTube “influencers” haven’t called this out for what it quite obviously is. I’m especially disappointed in Seth.
A tall front end is definitely good though but you need to set up the bike to work properly and be prepared to change your riding style.
Sorry. Machinist needing out over here…
X is roll. Line drawn horizontally fore-aft. You cartwheel around this axis.
Y is pitch. Line drawn horizontally like wing span. You flip/roll around this axis.
Z is yaw. Line drawn vertically from below, thru center, and above. You twirl around this axis.
Machinist stuff is diff. X is horizontal side-to-side, Y is closer and further away, Z is elevation.
For other stuff, it's like a frame of reference where X is heading, Y is banking angle, Z is elevation.
Some X and Y mixups, but seems consistent that Z is up and down though. Don't ask where I got my name from.
I have recently done testing on a completely different subject: crank length, on a road bike. Testing 145mm crank length while I am otherwise normally riding 175mm ones.
First 3 rides were feeling terrible. First few minutes I was even afraid of even standing on the pedals. I was also feeling powerless.
Only after a month of riding that bike exclusively I could say I got used to it but it felt really weird riding a 175mm crank again.
3 months later I can ride 175mm crank on one ride, regardless if it is a road bike or MTB then switch to that road bike with 145mm cranks and back and adjust without thinking of it more than the first 2 minutes of my ride and I no longer feel like I am losing performance.
Now and only now that I feel comfortable on both crank length 3 months later, I do feel I can do back to back performance testing. Right now I don't even know if I am faster with one specific crank length, I want to test both on same day/weather conditions, and same bicycle.
I am not saying both experiences are comparable, but maybe maybe this is such a drastic change that only long term testing can really lead to a decent conclusion, whatever that conclusion is, because your body might be stuck with years of muscle memory working in a different way.
This precisely seems to be the only combination of circumstances where a raised reversed stem would influence the rider's center of gravity in a favourable manner. In any other case a raised reversed stem would push the riders center of gravity backwards, taking pressure off the front wheel and subsequently introduce understeer.
Or in other words: The Transition Spire (like most modern bikes) doesn't have enough stack height to begin with.
www.amazon.com/dp/B082DSKDTX?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details&th=1&psc=1
While I didn't put this on my mtb I did put it on my Talaria XXX e-moto. I was fiddling with handlebar setups and realized any bar with significant rise resulted in too-long-stem-length feel. Bought the stem above and am now a huge fan of it. I didn't weigh it, but with the BMB stem at 393 grams any stem of this type is going to be weighty.
1. Super adjustable.
2. Super sturdy. The notch indentations are pretty pronounced, and when the thing is tightened there's zero discernible flex.
3. Only downside for me has been that since the thing is so sturdy and the adjustment indentations are so deep you have to loosen both adjustment bolts even if you only want to change the angle of one segment. When this happens it can be easy to lose or misadjust the particular settings of the segments.
To be fair, I'd be curious to see what that looks like. But it doesn't look like putting this on any current bike on the market. Maybe the next Donut?????
Also there are probably people with comfort bikes who this would be more suited for.
I actually designed the RR stem with a lot of these principles in mind, and I feel that it is with that riding technique that you can get the most out of the RR stem. The Raised height and Reversed offset bring the bars up to meet you instead of you hinging down really low to meet the bars to have good bend in your elbows. The Reversed offset arcs out to meet you when leaning the bike over really far so that the bike can drop down into a turn more for better side knob engagement and to carve a kinematically tighter turn. The Raised height gives a longer RAD to give you more leverage over the bike, and gives a more upright RAAD (angle of your RAD line) for more response to pushing and pulling forward and backward on the bars when Rowing and AntiRowing with a more horizontal arm angle to the bars.
Weighting your inside hand to lean and turn in doesn’t work well with the RR stem. Trying to weight your hands getting up and over the bar climbing, descending, and braking hard doesn’t pair well with the RR stem. Riding with straighter extended and braced arms supporting yourself with your skeletal structure doesn’t pair well with the RR stem. Letting the bike float under you around the bottom bracket as you stay centered and balanced, and using your hands as weightless guides does though work very well both with a traditional stem, and particularly so with the RR stem.
So looking at moto - nobody rides a rearward tall position like this, some guys try but it's typically older guys that are beginners.....speaking of which, maybe this does make sense?
The strap is kinda bad though, so I replaced it with a velcro one from Home Depot.
Review is one line ^^^
Nah … we may be dumb, but we’re not stoopid
The reason your front wheel pushes I would argue is more about loosing that balance of driving your weight down into the side knobs and starting to fall over to the inside of the turn actively unloading your tires. This happens because you either leaned your body in too much for your turn, or you lost good feel of where your balance point was. An object in motion wants to stay in motion in a straight line. Your tires are the only thing stopping you from continuing straight. If your weight is pushing forward straight as you lean into a turn and you miss aligned your balance from directly loading the tire, you will not turn, you will just push forward while falling over and washing out. Even if you put 100% of your weight pushing into the bars, if your weight isn’t loading into the tire, you will have zero traction and just push. Supporting your weight in your hands can make keeping that balance harder because as you steer and counter steer, your weight will be moving side to side as the bars move side to side. This is exaggerated worse with a really long forward offset stem as mentioned in my other post about Hand Lead. If your weight is just over the bottom bracket, you can move your hands and the bike underneath you without moving your weight around and loosing that balance. Also, the more the bike is leaned, the less steering you have to do for a given radius of turn and the better side knob engagement you will have for better traction. When turning tighter, that rearward weight bias and driving through the hips and feet while you pump the bike can help to overload the rear tire to force it to oversteer with a rear wheel slide. Combing that with pulling the front around the turn can really whip the bike around very quickly without the front pushing or washing out. Traction is limited, so I’d rather over load and exceed the traction on the rear wheel such that it pushes instead of the front wheel such that it pushes.
Henry’s technique of loading the outside foot and inside hand does not pair well with the RR stem since the RR stem will not turn in much when making that weight shift. This would lead to the front washing out because you are leaning in while stopping the bars from turning to match your lean. Arguably, loading the inside hand isn’t that good of a technique in general due to reducing bike body separation, reducing bike lean, and bringing your weight further towards the inside of the bike and away from your side knobs.
In general it seems to me that most of the issues expressed during Henry’s review come from trying to get over and on top of the bar and weighting the hands as some try to do on a traditional stem. This technique does not translate as well to the RR stem, and you need to accept that the bar is up high and you are behind it instead of trying to get up and over it anyway. This is also the reason for the increased fatigue when pedaling seated and loading the hands with bent arms and engaged core, and the instability on technical descents and when braking. When you are seated, you should be seated fairly upright with no weight on your hands and relaxed low bent elbows and shoulders instead of weighting your hands with bent arms trying to get on top of the bar. Adjustments to the seat position such as tilting the nose down more, and adjusting it further forward along with even scooting your butt forward help you to simply sit down on steeper climbs without feeling like you are falling back. The lack of load in your hands and matching your forward lean to the force of gravity will keep your arms and core relaxed. When braking hard you should also be driving your weight through your feet, and when riding stepped technical terrain you should be balanced over the bottom bracket using your arms as suspension to extend and compress to match the terrain with good bike body separation.
The techniques I’m talking about are exactly what many mtb coaches advise. I actually designed the stem to work best with those techniques to actually make doing them properly easier. Linked are numerous videos of pro riders and mtb coaches talking about exactly this. Keep your hands light, lean the bike, drive your weight through your feet and hips. Jeff Kendall Weed is a great example of an ex pro rider who corners exactly like how I have described including the extreme leaning, pumping, and pulling the bars. Some of the videos even show the riders taking their inside hand off mid turn or even both hands off mid turn further showing the weight in the feet. Even the coaches and pros that do recommend keeping some pressure in the bars for feel recommend loading the outside hand and really leaning the bike over actively suggesting that loading the inside hand leads to washing the front end.
Jeff Kendall Weed Cornering and Pumping:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=4WnV4FwedJQ
m.youtube.com/watch?v=G91ShkNEpvs&t=355s&pp=ygUdSmVmZiBrZW5kYWxsIHdlZWQgc3dpdGNoYmFja3M%3D
m.youtube.com/watch?v=nucG1gurWd4&t=38s&pp=ygUoSmVmZiBrZW5kYWxsIHdlZWQgZmxvd2luZyBkb3duIHRoZSB0cmFpbA%3D%3D
Lee Likes Bikes Cornering, Body Position, and How To Bike:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=0XTGkV6UAIc&pp=ygUdTXRiIGNvcm5lcmluZyBsZWUgbGlrZXMgYmlrZXM%3D
m.youtube.com/watch?v=c2DUQeeAgNQ&pp=ygUNbXRiIGhpcCBoaW5nZQ%3D%3D
m.youtube.com/watch?v=-GAaheigvgg&t=17s
Mountain Bike Training Center Cornering and Body Position:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z40-7tLb8Ro&pp=ygUbTXRiIGNvcm5lcmluZyBmb290IHBvc2l0aW9u
m.youtube.com/watch?v=_VSsgwfxx1E
Mountain Bike Academy Cornering and Body Position:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=9SB1_0s1ivk
m.youtube.com/watch?v=eMnSUq_g3ZQ
Aaron Gwin Cornering:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=z6xQDi4xCuM
Mark Matthews Cornering:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=LczwojA_Dfg&t=106s&pp=ygUVam95IG9mIGJpa2UgY29ybmVyaW5n
Children Of The Loam Roosting:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=zbMTaRzxu9A&pp=ygUQSG93IHRvIHJvb3N0IG10Yg%3D%3D
Finn Iles Shralping and Joel Hardwood Blueprint Athlete Development Outside Hand Pressure Cornering:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=BT_Ntnlv0J8
m.youtube.com/watch?v=lJbOvl_Sup4&t=4s&pp=ygUrYmx1ZXByaW50IGF0aGxldGUgZGV2ZWxvcG1lbnQgY29ybmVyaW5nIG10Yg%3D%3D
Paul The Punter and Kasper Woolley Outside Hand Pressure Cornering:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=hJf4bQ1y1f0&pp=ygUYa2FzcGVyIHdvb2xsZXkgY29ybmVyaW5n
Good job @henryquinney for giving it a chance and posting an honest review of something novel(ish), even it didn't work out.
Again, it's easy to look at something new/different and instantly write it off as useless, and while I do agree, I think it's worth trying anything once.
He is a true crazy innovator. I was so weirded out by the stem that I didn't want to try his bike even when he offered.
Even though Henry didn't like it, I have heard reviews that were more positive.
Sure it seems like a fail, but you never know where the good ideas are going to come from sometimes.
Sometimes it's from someone kooky and not a marketing dept
www.pinkbike.com/u/mtbcut/blog/Mondrakers-New-Forward-Geometry-with-Fabien-Barel.html
I'm well aware of Mondraker's forward geometry, thanks, been on Pinkbike longer than most. Hence why i said 'novel-ish' - though Mondraker's attempt was genuinely novel, whatever you seem to think. Nobody else had done it before or since.
I'm not disagreeing with you that this product doesn't make any sense, but again, regardless of what you think of Pinkbike as far as journalism goes, we can probably agree that they SHOULD be unbiased, and that starts with being open to trying whatever product comes your way at least once.
"At least once"
They gave it coverage when Mondraker did it, they covered your "at least once"... they need to revisit every stupid idea that comes back around.
Whatever man, it's semantics.
Forward Geometry came out around a decade ago. Regardless of whether or not you think it's a stupid idea, it can be worth revisiting things every now and then, especially since bike geometry and design has changed pretty radically since then. While the idea itself may not have changed a ton, the landscape has, which certainly can change the usefulness of something.
It’s weird that you’re so mad about somebody writing something on the internet that nobody is forcing you to read.
The Hand Lead is just like the Frame Lead but looking at the relationship of your hands to the contact patch of the tire. You would find out how much Mechanical Hand Lead you have by drawing a straight line to the ground parallel to the steering axis such that it intersects the centerline between your grips. You would then draw a line perpendicular to that line such that it intersects the contact patch of the tire. You then measure the length of that line. That length is the length of the lever that your hands have to lead the front tire. When you turn left and right, your hands will pivot around the contact patch of the tire and swing left and right along that lever. Due to the angle of the steering axis and subsequent upward angle of that lever, as your hands swing side to side on that lever, they will also drop down to each side. This contributes to wheel flop. The slacker the headtube angle and/or longer the Hand Lead along with the more weight you put through your hands, the more wheel flop you get.
With a Hand Lead that is longer than your Frame Lead, as is traditional, you further enhance the wheel flop of your frame alone. Along with that, your hands are even further away from the contact patch of the tire which can give a less direct feel of what is happening at the contact patch of the tire in times of low traction when it is moving side to side in loose terrain. When you turn left and lean the bike, your hands move left even more than your frame, and drop down into the turn further than your frame. Any mid lean steering and counter steering moves your hands quite a bit up and down which can make keeping your body lean stable harder without aggressively keeping on top of that movement.
With a Hand Lead that is shorter than your Frame Lead, as is with the RR stem, you decrease how much wheel flop you get at the hands. Along with that, your hands are much closer to the contact patch of the tire which can give a more direct feel of what is happening at the contact patch of the tire in times of low traction when it is moving side to side in loose terrain. When you turn left and lean the bike, your hands move left less than your frame, and drop down into the turn less so that you can lean the frame in more. Any mid lean steering and counter steering doesn't disrupt your hands position in space much away from the contact patch of the tire which can make keeping your body's lean stable easier without aggressively needing to keep on top of it.
This is all simplified a little because as you turn the front wheel, the contact patch of the tire actually moves towards to the steering axis. This is why when you lean the bike over standing next to it without holding the bars, the wheel turns in up until a certain point. At this point is an inflection point where the steering axis is actually in line with the contact patch of the tire. Depending on how much the bike is leaned will change where that inflection point is. At this inflection point, the frame will no longer drop down as you turn the wheel more, it will actually rise up a bit. At this point, having your hands in front of the steering axis will mean that your hands will still keep dropping down in as the wheel turns more. If you turn the wheel too far past this inflection point, the contact patch of the tire will become so far in front of the steering axis instead of behind it that the wheel will be forced to continue turning in and suddenly jackknife in. With your hands in front of the steering axis and subsequently in front of the contact patch of the tire at this inflection point, weighting your hands will make the front try to continue turning in feeding into how it is already being forced to turn in and ultimately making the front jackknife. With your hands behind the steering axis and subsequently behind the contact patch of the tire at this inflection point, your hands will be lifting up as you turn the wheel further beyond this inflection point instead of dropping in. This can give something for the rider to push against to keep the front end from jackknifing, and to keep turning the front wheel tighter with control.
One of the things I have noticed is that the RR stem feels more sensitive to hand inputs steering, and less sensitive to body weight shifts side to side. So, where a long forward stem may seem slower to respond to hand inputs turning but flop to either side with small body weight shifts side to side, the RR stem will respond faster to the hand inputs while being less sensitive to your body shifts side to side. If you are used to weighting your inside hand by shifting your body in while cornering on a traditional forward stem, particularly one that's a bit longer, you would expect the front wheel to turn in as you lean in towards that hand, and to turn in further as you weight it more towards the end of a turn to bring you out of the turn, or when you need to turn tighter. With the RR stems Reversed offset, initially it will still turn in in a similar way, albeit more muted to your body shifts, when weighting that inside hand, but beyond a certain point of turning tighter, if you put more weight into that inside hand, it will either keep stable where it is and not react much, or even turn out a little. Cornering on two wheels is all about keeping a balance from having your weight falling towards the inside of a turn and making it stand back upright. To control this, we steer and counter steer. When you steer in, you start to stand up, and when you steer out, you start to fall in. If weighting your inside hand would make the front do nothing or try to turn out slightly at a certain point of turning tighter when you are expecting it to turn in more, the bike would fall into the turn more instead of standing up. This I believe is probably what you were feeling where the front end would feel like it would unweight and wash out. Essentially when you were expecting to drive the front end in, it would turn out slightly and make you fall in. This may have even led to a feedback loop of trying to lean into that hand harder to stabilize and force weight onto it more while actually leading to some of the opposite effect from what you were accustomed too. If that's the way you ride, then you can't just bring that style over to the RR stem and expect it to respond the same. You need to ride it how it responds to being ridden. It may not have been an issue with traction as much as you just not putting your weight through the tires in the way that you were expecting, and loosing your balance point. No amount of increased traction will help much with not loading the tires.
I'm not a fan of the technique of weighting the hands in general. This is particularly the case for the inside hand because it doesn't allow as much bike lean due to needing your body to be leaned over enough to put weight on that hand, and it can lead to the front jackknifing in when turning tighter. Along with that, if you lean your body inside too much while weighting into the front end, it can bring your weight too far over such that you have shifted your weight inside and off of your tires leading them to washing out. In times where the front loses traction unexpectedly, you are right there on it to go down with it. Putting too much weight pushing through the front can also overload the front tire making it push and wash out straight. An object in motion wants to stay in motion. Putting more weight into the front can make your tire dig in more, but it can also lead to greater resistance to changing direction, and pushing as it digs in deeper to loose dirt. When riding technical terrain, that weight on the hands can be more fatiguing on the arms since you are supporting yourself on them, and can make the bike feel like it is moving you more when your arms are braced leading to an unstable feeling like the bike is riding you.
In general, I recommend loading and pushing through the feet, and minimally weighting the hands, sometimes even pulling on the bars as you turn tighter while leaning the bike in a lot. The more a bike is leaned over, the tighter it will turn for a given rotation at the bars, and the better characteristics it will have in a slide with good side knob engagement. Along with that, with all of your weight balanced through your feet, your hands are free to be able to steer and counter steer as you please to control your balance through a turn and keep traction along with moving around and pushing and pulling as needed when the bike moves around underneath you in technical terrain. This helps you to get better bike body separation so that the bike doesn’t destabilize you as it kicks and bucks around. This is where the RR stem comes in. It's greater sensitivity to steering hand inputs gives finer control of this steering and counter steering while it's decreased tendency to flop to either side with different body weight shifts side to side reduces how much unintended front wheel wandering you get as you shift your body around. With your weight loading and pushing through your feet, you can drive the bike into the ground for traction, and even overload the rear to make it push as it digs in deeper to loose dirt while pulling around the front end to keep it from pushing. This can give a really nice carving feeling. In times where the front end unexpectedly loses traction, it slides out slower since you aren't actively pushing it which gives you more time to save a slide. This technique works really well with a traditional stem, and particularly well with the RR stem. Doing this technique helps the bike to be in the leaned over position it responds best too with good loading of your side knobs, and the RR stem makes getting the bike in that position easier. The Raised height even helps keep your arms bent more so you have room to extend and compress as you direct the bike around while the Reversed offset arcing out as you turn keeps you on the outside of the bike so you can lean the bike in more.
Your trouble cornering and riding technical terrain initially came as a surprise given that I feel the cornering and technical descending are some of the best attributes of the RR stem. I think it's mostly that it just didn't fit with your riding style. I understand that different riders have different riding styles, so if that's just how you ride, and you don't wish to change that, then the RR stem is probably just not for you. Probably same thing for other riders with a similar weighted hands and lean with the bike style. My goal is ultimately to make riders happier, so if a traditional setup works better for you and your riding style, then power to you. I do believe though that with the right technique and time to adapt, there are a lot of benefits to the RR stem for progressing your riding further. Riders who already have this type of technique will probably get on with the RR stem very well fairly quickly just as my customers and I have, numerous of whom have reported going substantially faster on trails they have been riding for years on their first rides. I know that I'm not going back to a traditional stem, and I have many customers who feel the same. Some of them even bought up to 3 stems to fit onto their other bikes because they loved it so much.
The issues expressed climbing I’d say can be remedied some by adjusting the seat position and adjusting technique. Tilting the nose of the saddle notably down, and scooting it forward on the rails or shifting your body forward on the seat can really help with not feeling like you need to hold yourself forward with your core so much. Your arms will be bent more, but your elbows and shoulders should be low and relaxed. You shouldn’t feel that you are needing to hold your self up and forward as much you talked about if you have your seat adjusted for the different position. When going around tight turns, pointing your outer knee in towards the stem greatly improves clearance to the bar, and if you run the RR stem a little taller for your above average height, the bar should largely go over your knee.
While I do believe that a long chainstay would be a great addition to the RR stem for my full geometry vision, and my ultimate goal is to make a full frame with my full geometry philosophy and the suspension designs I’ve been working on since 5th or 6th grade, I don't think that it is necessary with the right technique to be able to get good traction on the front end with the RR stem on a bike with a shorter chainstay. I've used it very happily extensively on a bike with a 462mm reach and 432mm chainstay, along with a 500mm reach and a 440mm chainstay. Both bikes cornered phenomenally with the RR stem, and the majority if not all of my customers are riding otherwise standard bikes with very typical chainstay lengths. That said, the disadvantage of decreased maneuverability with longer chainstays largely disappear with the RR stem, so you can just gain stability in rough terrain with them together. I tested this extensively also on a bike with a 462mm chainstay and a 462mm reach, and that was one of my favorite handling bikes. It had amazing stability and control without loosing anything in tighter corners because I could still whip it around with the RR stem.
1) With the testing feedback of the stem causing a lack of weight on the front wheel, your reply appears to be that you should not only not try to apply pressure through your hands but to even pull up sometimes, and to only apply pressure through your feet. Those approaches must necessarily apply less pressure to the front tire, only exacerbating the issues described. Can you concisely, please, articulate why riders don't need pressure on the front tire and how that benefits handling?
2) You mention that fundamentally this product is for riders that already use a technique that lends itself to this product. Truthfully, I can't imagine trying to ride a normal setup with the techniques you've tried to describe. Do you not think it makes more sense to take the money used on this product and invest it in lessons to ride properly? Like, we're treating the symptoms not the cause here.
Is this what we have to look forward to when AI rulz the world?
1) I’m not saying that you need zero weight on your front tire, I’m suggesting that you don’t need to apply any of that weight via pressure through the hands. If you are supporting all of your weight through your feet over the bottom bracket, you will have 40% - 30% of your weight on the front tire. Dynamically you can adjust this load, and in tighter turns you can really pump the bike driving through the hips and feet while directing the bike with your hands. Your hands should just be there to maneuver and steer and counter steer the bike to maintain the balance as your weight is driving into your side knobs via your feet at the bottom bracket. The reason your front wheel pushes I would argue is more about loosing that balance of driving your weight down into the side knobs and starting to fall over to the inside of the turn actively unloading your tires. This happens because you either leaned your body in too much for your turn, or you lost good feel of where your balance point was. An object in motion wants to stay in motion in a straight line. Your tires are the only thing stopping you from continuing straight. If your weight is pushing forward straight as you lean into a turn and you miss aligned your balance from directly loading the tire, you will not turn, you will just push forward while falling over and washing out. Even if you put 100% of your weight pushing into the bars, if your weight isn’t loading into the tire, you will have zero traction and just push. Supporting your weight in your hands can make keeping that balance harder because as you steer and counter steer, your weight will be moving side to side as the bars move side to side. This is exaggerated worse with a really long forward offset stem as mentioned in my other post about Hand Lead. If your weight is just over the bottom bracket, you can move your hands and the bike underneath you without moving your weight around and loosing that balance. Also, the more the bike is leaned, the less steering you have to do for a given radius of turn and the better side knob engagement you will have for better traction. When turning tighter, that rearward weight bias and driving through the hips and feet while you pump the bike can help to overload the rear tire to force it to oversteer with a rear wheel slide. Combing that with pulling the front around the turn can really whip the bike around very quickly without the front pushing or washing out. Traction is limited, so I’d rather over load and exceed the traction on the rear wheel such that it pushes instead of the front wheel such that it pushes. Henry’s technique of loading the outside foot and inside hand does not pair well with the RR stem, and arguably isn’t that good of a technique in general due to reducing bike body separation, reducing bike lean, and bringing your weight further towards the inside of the bike and away from your side knobs.
2) While I do think that mtb coaching is a great investment, the technique I’m talking about is exactly what many mtb coaches advise, and many riders do. You can even see this loading the rear more visually by watching if the front or rear suspension is compressing more when watching a rider loading the bike when cornering, and by looking at which tire is squirming or even burping more. In both of these cases it is the rear that is seeing greater load. I actually designed the stem to work best with those techniques to actually make doing them properly easier. Linked are numerous videos of pro riders and mtb coaches talking about exactly this. Keep your hands light, lean the bike, drive your weight through your feet and hips keeping centered. Jeff Kendall Weed is a great example of an ex pro rider who corners exactly like how I have described including the extreme leaning, pumping, and pulling the bars. Some of the videos even show the riders taking their inside hand off mid turn or even both hands off mid turn further showing the weight in the feet. Some of them also show forcefully driving the bike through your feet and hips to overload the rear such that it slides and over steers. Even the coaches and pros that do recommend keeping some pressure in the bars for feel recommend loading the outside hand and really leaning the bike over actively suggesting that loading the inside hand leads to washing the front end.
Jeff Kendall Weed Cornering and Pumping:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=4WnV4FwedJQ
m.youtube.com/watch?v=G91ShkNEpvs&t=355s&pp=ygUdSmVmZiBrZW5kYWxsIHdlZWQgc3dpdGNoYmFja3M%3D
m.youtube.com/watch?v=nucG1gurWd4&t=38s&pp=ygUoSmVmZiBrZW5kYWxsIHdlZWQgZmxvd2luZyBkb3duIHRoZSB0cmFpbA%3D%3D
Lee Likes Bikes Cornering, Body Position, and How To Bike:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=0XTGkV6UAIc&pp=ygUdTXRiIGNvcm5lcmluZyBsZWUgbGlrZXMgYmlrZXM%3D
m.youtube.com/watch?v=c2DUQeeAgNQ&pp=ygUNbXRiIGhpcCBoaW5nZQ%3D%3D
m.youtube.com/watch?v=-GAaheigvgg&t=17s
Mountain Bike Training Center Cornering and Body Position:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z40-7tLb8Ro&pp=ygUbTXRiIGNvcm5lcmluZyBmb290IHBvc2l0aW9u
m.youtube.com/watch?v=_VSsgwfxx1E
Mountain Bike Academy Cornering and Body Position:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=9SB1_0s1ivk
m.youtube.com/watch?v=eMnSUq_g3ZQ
Aaron Gwin Cornering:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=z6xQDi4xCuM
Mark Matthews Cornering:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=LczwojA_Dfg&t=106s&pp=ygUVam95IG9mIGJpa2UgY29ybmVyaW5n
Children Of The Loam Roosting:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=zbMTaRzxu9A&pp=ygUQSG93IHRvIHJvb3N0IG10Yg%3D%3D
Finn Iles Shralping and Joel Hardwood Blueprint Athlete Development Outside Hand Pressure Cornering:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=BT_Ntnlv0J8
m.youtube.com/watch?v=lJbOvl_Sup4&t=4s&pp=ygUrYmx1ZXByaW50IGF0aGxldGUgZGV2ZWxvcG1lbnQgY29ybmVyaW5nIG10Yg%3D%3D
Paul The Punter and Kasper Woolley Outside Hand Pressure Cornering:
m.youtube.com/watch?v=hJf4bQ1y1f0&pp=ygUYa2FzcGVyIHdvb2xsZXkgY29ybmVyaW5n
What do you make of it when my customers casually crush their own PRs effortlessly dancing into and out of a drift through corners riding substantially faster than they had ever before while being even more comfortable on their bike now equipped with the RR stem relative to their traditional stem? I have numerous reports from customers doing exactly that.
Anyone can get marginally faster when reinforcing/exaggerating their poor riding habits. That doesn’t make it a good thing.
Maybe a shoutout to a bumbler or two for the product review idea would be fair as well?
I mean, you can shit on people by calling them bumblers but I think thats just kinda mean. That’s your judgement and not mine. There is loads of great content around this stem by loads of great people.
should we race to see who gets to post YouTube videos?
Do you understand how stupid that sounds? Because that's what you're saying.