Review: How Canyon's KIS Could Change Mountain Biking, and Why It Probably Won't

Sep 20, 2023
by Henry Quinney  

Canyon's bike seems to be branching out into each and every direction. Whether it's conservative or extreme geometry, simple elegance or quirky, kooky features, the German brand has the eventuality covered. In some ways, they really are becoming the brand for everyone, because they seem to make everything, for both the good and the bad. Do you want an enduro bike that takes new school reach numbers to post-modern surrealism? Here, have the Strive. What about one of the most pragmatic downhill bikes specced with a wish list of sensible features? Here, try the Sender. Clean cut and simple, shred bike, what about the Spectral 125?
KIS Details

• Available on Canyons & Litevilles
• KIS stands for "Keep It Stable"
• Will always return your wheel to center
• Claimed weight of 110g
• Tested on Spectral CF8 Large
• Adjustable but undamped system
canyon.com

photo

I love this wacky and wonderful approach, and at their core they clearly have an incredibly passionate design team who are looking to try just about anything to make bikes that are different, that are effective, and that stand out from the crowd. And isn't that what it's all about? In fact, the progression within the brand, and subsequently the place it holds in the wider market, has been turbocharged. They've arguably out-innovated most other big brands even if that has involved some duds along the way, all the while expanding their range drastically.

Recently, they've incorporated Syntace's KIS (Keep It Stable) system. Liteville is also in on the project, but if you're at all likely to see it at the local trailhead I imagine it would be on a Canyon. This system is housed rather neatly inside the top tube and aims to stabilize the steering. The idea is that with a sprung element always trying to steer the front wheel straight ahead, you're less likely to feel the negative effects of wheel flop plus, or so it's claimed, benefit from steering that is less twitchy, better weighted, and subsequently more predictable.

photo

What Is It?

Inside the top tube are two small springs that are tethered to a cam which is cinched on the steerer via a a bolt that can be accessed through a small hole in the top tube. As you turn the bars and rotate the steerer, they turn the cam which in turn pulls on the springs (although there are two springs, they're not for left and right but are rather engaged in unison). This means that as you turn the bars, the springs stretch, and as they return will always try to return the wheel back to center.


Much like in a suspension linkage, the mechanics of any lever, spring, or cam are designed with certain parameters in mind. In this instance, the geometry of the Kevlar bands that attach the spring to the cam, and the shape of the cam itself, give a particular torque curve. This gives the torque curve in the above graphic. Initially, the springs take on quite a lot of load, but as the bars turn past 15 degrees, the rate in which the system takes on load decreases. Meaning that the initial part has a greater returning force for the amount that the fork steerer is turned than the latter part.

photo

It should also be noted, especially when you consider my ride impressions, that this isn't a steering damper, nor is it a system that is damped at all. It's just a spring trying to straighten the wheel, whereas a damper controls the rate the bars can turn by forcing oil through a circuit. This means that the system can take up energy quickly and, to my mind, dump that energy quickly too. This becomes more apparent in the different settings thta can be adjusted via a sliding mechanism and a 4 mm Allen key on the top tube.

photo
The KIS system isn't a steering damper, but they are still out there and they can aid riders with particular demands. (Photo credit Tommy Wilkinson)

What Problems Is It Trying to Solve?

In Canyon's copy, they write about how most other vehicles, be it planes, cars or even boats, have a device to self-center their steering. I would contend, however, that none of these weigh 25% of the user's weight and rely heavily upon being leaned to efficiently steer. Either way though, it's clear that Canyon and Jo Klieber of Syntace, who originally designed the system, have been looking at places other than the bicycle industry for inspiration.

How I initially interpreted this system, and its impact on the bike, changed somewhat as the testing period went on. In the First Ride article, Seb Stott goes into detail explaining geometry's relationship to wheel flop and its influence on our bikes, and how the system sets out to solve several problems that have long persisted in cycling.

Seb wrote "This torque is designed to counteract the force created by a phenomenon called wheel flop. If you stand your bike upright with the steering off-center, the handlebars will naturally turn away from straight ahead, towards a steering angle of 90 degrees. This is because, as the steering angle increases, the bike frame (and with it the rider) drops towards the ground - by over 10 mm in the case of a slack bike.

photo
The KIS system has three marked settings.

"To picture this, imagine a bike with a 0-degree head angle (a horizontal fork). Now as you turn the handlebars away from straight ahead towards 90 degrees, the head tube would drop towards the ground by the radius of the wheel. With a vertical head angle, the head tube wouldn't drop at all. So the slacker the bike's head angle, the more the head tube will dip as the bike steers.

"This drop in head tube height creates a force that acts to pull the steering away from straight ahead. This is a destabilizing force because (within the range of normal steering angles) the further the steering moves away from straight ahead the more force acts to pull it even further away."

To my mind, the sensation of stability is a consequence of how a rider's weight is held by the chassis. Suspension, wheel size and speed notwithstanding, it's the result of geometry and dimensions of key components. The problem with geometry is that it's inherently limited by largely being the expression of a rider's weight, and the impact of dimension changes to affect where that weight sits between two axles, both in terms of fore and aft and also height. The exciting thing about KIS, or something similar to it, could be its ability to add another frontier in the quest for stability, or indeed open up another avenue in how to balance the compromise between stability (the ability to resist external forces) and balance (the distribution of weight between one or more points).

photo
Adjusting it is very easy.

Personally, I like a bike that has a great deal of balance first and foremost, and then subsequently works out how to integrate stability within that, rather than a bike that is incredibly stable but feels a little dull or cumbersome as it resists both inputs from the rider as well as feedback from the trail.

During my period of testing, which included riding two identical Canyon Spectrals back to back, one with the system and one without, KIS felt like something that was trying to break away from the limitations of geometry, and the oftentimes inherent trade-off that occurs when we make a bike more or less suited to one particular application. It feels like a way to incorporate better-behaved climbing characteristics when you have a geometry that gives a light front wheel on steeper sections and a way to isolate that away from the complications of slacker bikes.

I would contend that when we make any change to geometry that makes it more positive in one direction often has a negative consequence in another. For instance, our slack bikes have steep seat tubes, which can be great, but there's a reason road bikes don't have 78-degree seat angles, and that's because what might feel good on a steep fire road can feel pretty horrible on a flatter one, and has a tendency to overload the rider's wrists. Similarly, while I am a fan of long rear ends, they can make it harder to execute certain maneuvers, especially at lower speeds. A system, such as KIS, would be able to increase stability on the front wheel in these instances while also isolating them away from geometry changes such as these.

Canyon Spectral 29 2021
The geometry of the Spectral 29er.

Although speculative on my part, the fact that this system is included in a pre-existing Canyon model is noteworthy. There are probably better candidates, geometry-wise, to feature this system to reap the supposed benefits, or better yet it could have had an entire bike built around it. I think if that were the case, the initial copy in the release may have read a little differently. I would be curious to see this system on a bike with some real outliers in terms of chainstay length, head angle, trail, or fork offset. Maybe we should put it on the Grim Donut?

photo
I had two Spectrals for testing. One with KIS, one without.

How Did I Test It?

For this test period, Canyon sent me two Canyon Spectrals in the same size and spec. As a tester, this is something of a treat and the perfect way to isolate or test one particular change. Mike Kazimer has previously reviewed the Spectral, which you can read about here.

During testing, I rode the bikes back to back many, many times. That consisted of longer ninety-minute rides of around 800 m over elevation change where I could get settled within the bike and really compare notes over the course of a more typical ride on both climbs and descents and back-to-back runs at Whistler Bike Park. The bikes were set up in the exact same way and I ran the same tires, cockpit settings, and pressures throughout. My preferred setting was the one with the least preload on the springs.

I have seen some Canyon athletes running KIS, and I would be curious about the level of force provided. Every time I lessened the system's influence it improved the handling. Maybe there is a setting less that the lowest-preload setting, but more than absolutely 0 that could help better cherry-pick the good bits and do without the bad.

photo
It does have positive implications when going uphill.

Ride Impressions

Swinging a leg over the Spectral it immediately becomes very apparent that there is something different going on with your bike. The device has three marked positions on its sliding scale. Sliding the hardware along changes the preload on the springs. I tried it in all three marked positions and found it dominated the feeling of a bike in the more extreme positions (middle and max). The way we steer our bikes can often be initiated by a countersteer. This system wants to kill that gentle input dead. This has some consequences. Firstly, riding a bike without your hands is terrifying. Secondly, it takes some relearning of how you initiate turns. Thirdly, and quite oddly, I felt that my brain is so hardwired for a set outcome to the inputs I put through the bike that on two occasions I got seasick while riding this bike on long climbs. My balance felt like it wasn't connected to what was happening with my body, similar to the feeling that occur when you're on a boat your balance isn't lining up with how your eyes perceive the world, .

This system shines on the climbs. The act of reducing the effects of wheel flop had a large effect. If you were climbing something steep and technical, instead of feeling an element of instability as you pushed your front wheel up and over a square edge or root, it felt like it acted more as an anchor. The KIS system makes the bike feel like it has a set of stabilizers or training wheels on the front axle. This was massively noticeable on climbs, and the more heinous the climb the better it got. It feels reassuring on tech, and on particularly steep or loose sections it means you can ride with more weight over the rear to generate more traction. This becomes particularly useful when grip is limited in the first place. I didn't have to balance the demands of the front and rear wheels, and I could just concentrate on delivering consistent traction to the rear.

photo
It doesn't undermine the great things about the easy-going Spectral but I'm not sure it enhances them either.

On the descents, however, it was a different story that wasn't to my taste whatsoever. The times I disliked it least was when I noticed it less. For instance, in large radius berms they are more about leaning the bike than turning the bars. As a general rule, the tighter the turn and the more extreme the steering angle the less I enjoyed it. This became particularly apparent in sequential turns that rely upon you loading up the bike. The way that the system dumps off a higher rate of torque as it returns to center before picking it up again at an initially high rate meant that going between tight steep catches felt like high-siding was always a distinct possibility. It felt like it was hooking up my body weight much in the same way that a fork that rebounds too fast from deep in its stroke only to hit another edge can feel like you're getting double-bounced. My body weight was overloading the system, and in my opinion the only way to negate this issue is damping.

The way the bike returns the center of its steering is something I don't often think about, but with this system, I was so conscious of it, and really disliked the variation in the torque ratio as it ushered me back to center in a hurry, before I felt the resistance of the system as I moved through the center and it picked up tension on the other side.

Not everyone is the same when it comes to adaptability, but on anything but the lowest setting I ran into issues. It wasn't just riding the bike, which you do learn relatively quickly, but also coming back to riding normal bikes. Suddenly, it just felt like I lost my frame of reference for how I wanted a bike to hold my weight.

photo
I'm not convinced by KIS, and would argue simple cockpit adjustments to suit the rider have a far greater and beneficial impact for most mountain bikers.

photo
You can release this bolt should you need to change the fork or service the headset.

What's It Like to Live With?
Canyon has done a great job of integrating this into the top-tube of the Spectral, but it's not a perfect solution. There are some quirky problems that mean you have to think more about some basic everyday occurrences. Leaning the bike by the rear wheel tends to be more problematic, and storing it with other bikes can be more difficult as the bars only want to go straight ahead, which can make having several bikes in tight storage tricky, and it's an extra layer of complication for packing it up or fitting it in a car. Each one by itself isn't a deal breaker but together they do become quite irritating.

photo
Are you thinking what I'm thinking?

Where Do We Go From Here?

I didn't like the KIS system, and there's little to no point suggesting otherwise. However, I do genuinely commend the idea. I don't think the Spectral is the right place for it, but I would love to see it integrated from the ground up in some extreme gravity designs or, moreover, built with some level of damping. I really feel damping this spring would help make good on the claims of a greater level of connection between the front and the rear of the bike, or at least I'd be curious to try. It's not so much on the way the spring takes up load, but rather the way it returns that energy to the rider. It sometimes felt erratic and chaotic, and some kind of rebound damping could be a way to solve this issue.

Without damping I could see it having an application in XC racing. The increase in stability on the front means the rider can grant more grip to the rear wheel, especially when traction is low. Yes, there is a small weight penalty of around 110 grams but that would be worth it if it saved a World Cup rider from having to get off and run with their bike even once.

Either way, keep it wacky, Canyon. I don't think this is the answer but I respect the effort.



Pros
+ Gives a very stable front end of climbs
+ Incorporated well into the frame
+ Can let the rider focus on ensuring the rear wheel is gripping


Cons
- Can feel detrimental on tighter trails, or steeper sections
- Adds another layer of feedback to react to while riding
- A damped version would possibly be better



Pinkbike's Take
bigquotesIn the bicycle industry, sometimes it feels like everyone is starting to converge on the same key points or messages. I don't think Syntace, Canyon and Liteville are on to an unrelenting success with this version of KIS. That said, I really hope they continue to explore the subject as I think it could work well in certain applications, and I would be very curious to try a version that utilises some form of damper, see what XC racers think of it or fit it to something that suffers far more from wheel flop than the well-mannered Spectral.
Henry Quinney


Author Info:
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Member since Jun 3, 2014
322 articles

317 Comments
  • 411 8
 KIS my arse.
  • 92 183
flag puukkopedro (Sep 20, 2023 at 9:12) (Below Threshold)
 Every day I wake up and read Pinkbike I feel less and less like I want to be a mountain biker. This stuff is embarrassing to the entire MTB community.
  • 23 9
 That! (an my age are) the biggest reasons I'm going bike packing next year.. hopefully on a rigid steel SS'er ;D
  • 53 6
 @puukkopedro: No ones forcing you to KIS his arse
  • 6 4
 @puukkopedro: I know you are...but what am I?
  • 4 0
 Pretty much. If you’re going to engineer something like this, make it a steering damper.
  • 16 0
 @puukkopedro: there's a simple solution here, it's hiding in plain sight right in your comment
  • 16 0
 @puukkopedro: Are you talking about the comment or the fact that someone will inevitably swallow this unnecessary bullshit from Canyon?
Btw, anyone remember the power balance scam?
  • 15 0
 @BenPea: or the magic vibration damping stickers?
  • 2 0
 That reminds me. When are they coming out with a version for the rear of the bike. Now THAT would make riding much more interesting!
  • 1 0
 I guess this is the 1st reflex thought that came to 99% of the readers of that title. I'm frustrated Smile
  • 8 2
 @naptime: bike packing? Every year touring gets more and more up its own arse
  • 6 0
 @puukkopedro: WHAT?! dude, that is a sign you need to spend more time riding your bike and less on the internet. respect
  • 3 0
 @MT36: unfortunately riding with a stick up your ass is very difficult, so he will keep complaining instead.
  • 10 12
 @puukkopedro:
Yeah!
Let's all go back to 26" wheels and elastomer sprung suspension. All of this high tech bullshit that makes our bikes considerably better to ride is far too uncool.
  • 2 0
 I think “Keep You Stable” sounds better.
  • 12 0
 @Noahgg: A.S.S. (Always Straight Steering)
  • 4 15
flag HankDamage (Sep 20, 2023 at 14:10) (Below Threshold)
 Just as a note to those interested: the idea behind this system is not to automatically return the steering angle to center, but to make every steering angle feel unique.
  • 8 0
 Keep Inventing Stupid
  • 3 0
 @farkinoath: wait, they have magic vibrating damping stickers?
  • 3 0
 @browner: hows that different from any other form of cycling???
  • 2 0
 @BenPea: Power Balance, jamais on ne t'oubliera.
  • 2 0
 @kerosen1: Surtout ces couillons qui voulaient nous faire passer le "test" d'équilibre... Snakeoil at its best.
  • 4 0
 @browner: Bike touring is not the same as bike packing.
With the former you load up your bike with loads of stuff, in side panniers, often front and rear, and loads more on top of the racks. It lets you travel by bike, but all that weight and volume severely limit what you can ride. It's mostly slow and steady riding on roads and/or wide gravel roads. The bike is purely a means of transportation.
With bike packing you limit what you take with you as much as possible, and strap that stuff as close as possible to the bike itself. That way you can still ride fun trails, and stay away from roads and traffic. Now it's just fun riding for days, with the stuff to sleep at night in between.
Yes, it's a bit hyped (and the name is kinda stupid), but it's fun as helle and a whole different beast than the old bike touring.
  • 1 0
 @notthatfast: It doesn't necessarily make bikes 'better' to ride.
More capable, yes, but often also less fun. Modern full sus bikes on less demanding trails can be like ride a tank over a twig. Where's the fun in that?
There's also lots more stuff to maintain and adjust, and to pay for of course. I don't know (or care) if my full rigid '94 mtb is (un)cool, but it is as simple as it gets, costs almost no time or money to maintain, and it's fun as hell.
  • 2 0
 @WhateverBikes:
I disagree, it definitely makes bikes objectively better to ride.
Subjectively maybe not, but I think you're in a pretty small group of people if you don't enjoy riding modern bikes more than old ones. It really depends where you're riding though - yes people rode the trails here on the North Shore on old hardtails, but NOT ONE person I know who's been around since the 90s wishes they still had an older bike like that.

Actually maybe Andrew Major, but he's a bit of a kook.
  • 1 2
 @notthatfast: There's a term for it, 'underbiking', and you'd be surprised how many people actually love it. In fact, it's the very reason gravel bikes are so popular.

'Better' is not synonimous to 'more capable' or 'more comfortable'.
My bike has been going strong ever since I bought it in 1994. It has gone through some iterations of course, but all in all it has cost me WAY less than buying new bikes every few years. It hardly costs me time or money to maintain it (and I can do all repairs and maintenance myself), it always works, and I always have loads of fun riding it. It demands my attention, requires skill to ride technical stuff, it's licht and nimble, and I love that.
Riding on a modern, full sus bike is very boing for me. Like riding on a mattress, it filters the riding feel for me. I don't like being occupied with operating a dropper post and the suspension lockout, it's a hassle.
So for me, my bike is way better than any modern one.
  • 1 0
 @WhateverBikes: ok, but what if you like going fast?
  • 3 0
 @WhateverBikes: "Riding on a modern, full sus bike is very boing for me."
Have you tried slowing down your rebound? ;-)
  • 2 0
 @WhateverBikes: you need better trails
  • 2 0
 @WhateverBikes:
I love underbiking. On a modern bike. With disc brakes. And suspension. And good geometry. And wheels that won’t fold in half if you look at them funny.

I ride the north shore on a 115mm travel 29er. I know what underbiking is. And it’s much more fun on a bike that isn’t 30 years old.
  • 1 0
 @BenPea: I don't care if I am going fast (compared to others), I care if it FEELS fast.
And on a rigid bike, things feel fast quite fast (no pun intended).

It's a bit like a go kart. Yes, there's faster vehicles, but riding a go kart is so much fun because it feels very fast.
  • 1 0
 @sophisticatedhonky: In fact, the very good thing about riding my rigid bike is exactly that I DON'T need better trails to have loads of fun.
  • 1 0
 @notthatfast: Well, I live in The Netherlands, so obviously I don't ride north shore. Your bike would be overbiking here, yet most people still ride around on fully's, even though they make our trails totally boring.
Also, I haven't had one single wheel fold in my 35 years of mountain biking. 26" with 36 spokes, they can stand a beating.
  • 205 1
 I hope this adds to the cost of bikes with little added benefit. They're too chep these days.
  • 16 0
 Just wait until the carbon version!
  • 14 0
 Just wait until the electric version.
  • 3 0
 @redrook: @Beazy: what are you guys on about, just wait for a new standard.
  • 139 0
 of all the things my bike doesn't need, it needs this the least.
  • 46 9
 Did you mean "it doesn't need this the most"?
  • 97 0
 @marincelo: It mostly needs to have this leastwardly.
  • 18 1
 i would take this over headset routing (or even internal routing) just because KIS would piss me off less.
  • 2 2
 @marincelo: it works either way. Yours would flow better, but both mean the same thing.
  • 6 0
 @marincelo: He was saying, he mostly doesn't need it in the least.
  • 2 2
 @marincelo: or "doesn't need this the least"?

@t-swing WE NEED ANSWERS
  • 5 0
 @nickfranko: You're not helping @marincelo, as both could not mean the same thing less
  • 1 0
 @nickfranko: So they're sort of like synonyms.
  • 2 0
 @marincelo: I couldn't care less.
  • 4 1
 @noapathy: Don't be so careless with your replies
  • 2 1
 So you’re saying, “most of your bikes you don’t need, would likely least this thing the mostest”..?
  • 1 0
 blah blah blah. And then at 2:10 things got interesting. Then at 5:50 things got....lost (added complexity to make it "easier" to ride a bike. Develop some skills, some strength, and ride what trails suit you, or maybe some springs in the top tube will help?
  • 113 1
 A solution in search of a problem. Perhaps if they made it electronic it would be complex enough to win over mtbers.
/s
  • 12 0
 The review clearly indicates we need a way to automatically switch this off on the descents, and on for ascents /s
  • 7 1
 @mattg95: yeah better add another electric switch so they can add another 1k on top of the asking price
  • 54 0
 Your bike steered you straight into a tree, you say? And when did you last update your firmware?
  • 4 1
 This is definitely just a temporary solution until electronic auto pilot is available.... but don't worry, the auto steering will have 3 setting and I'm sure one will fit your brand of steez
  • 1 0
 I love it! Press a button and presto, it brings back your whips mid air! Electronics ftw
  • 1 0
 Problem is that it was released by a european brand without that much buzz around. Had Sram, Specialized or SC released it on a press event with helicopter lift in Patagonia, PB writers would have declared it the best-new thing.
  • 93 1
 If it prevents more manufacturers from routing cables through the headset...
  • 17 0
 Oh, I think they'll turn that into a huge integrated tangle of bits and bobs to combine it with the through-headset cable routing and one piece stem/bar, and all those will work together seamlessly for about five minutes and then turn into a complete maintenance nightmare...
  • 1 0
 My rear mech and both hubs are already jammed in there with the cables. I don't think there's any more room anyway.
  • 85 4
 Only the Germans could come up with something so unnecessarily complicated using simple things like springs and bolts. Gotta be a German word for that "springen-bolten-traption-kumphf"
  • 45 1
 Genau
  • 35 0
 It wouldn't have dashes just one ridiculous word: springenboltentraptionkumphf
  • 11 6
 My all-time favourite German word is Reichseisenbahnknotenpunkthinundherführer, although it is nichtgewörterbucht
  • 4 10
flag bman33 (Sep 20, 2023 at 10:29) (Below Threshold)
 @jokermtb ....^^^ such a perfect, yet underatted comment. lol
  • 6 1
 @mi-bike: It’s not only not in the dictionary, it’s not even a word… however, something relatively close to it could have been a word in the German language one hundred years ago. These days we’d probably just use the English expression.
  • 3 1
 @FuzzyL: Mate, I know full well that it is not an official word. However, it does have a meaning and it is understandable by most with a basic understanding of German. FYI, it was made up by some comedians from across the border Wink
  • 5 0
 we call it "verschlimmbessern"
  • 5 0
 A german engineer will walk past a naked model to EFF a mechanic.
  • 1 0
 @jokermtb: yeah, probably have to dismantle the whole bike just to service the springs every 500km. Probably need to change the oil too for the harmonic balance.
  • 4 0
 @mi-bike: In German, like in my own Dutch language, we don't use spaces like you do in English between words that belong together.
You say 'cargo bike', we say 'bakfiets' (instead of 'bak fiets').
We even connect English words when we use them in our language, like 'mountainbike' and 'bikepacking'.

So that makes it possible to string together a lot of terms for a very specific thing, to make a very long word, but that's not something that is actually used very often. It's not in the dictionary for that reason.
  • 2 1
 The term for this kind of system would actually be Lenkungsrückschlagdämpfer.
And no, I'm not joking.
  • 84 4
 How PB's Cick-BaityTitles Could Change Journalism, and Why It Probably Won't
  • 8 1
 Why this is not even click bait compared to others, especially on youtube, IS NOT WHAT YOU THINK!
  • 6 0
 And 8 Reasons You Won't Believe Why It Probably Won't That Will Surprise You!
  • 51 3
 Every bike already has a feature that makes the front wheel want to automatically straighten out, and it's called "trail" (the distance that the front tire's contact patch lies behind the projection of the steering axis onto the ground). When the contact patch is to the right of the axis (because the handlebar is turned to the left), it applies a torque to turn the fork to the right again to center it.
  • 20 0
 Astounded that steering trail wasn't brought up anywhere in the article. Push your bike with no rider on a grassy field and watch it continue to steer upright and not fall over. Dark magic?
  • 24 0
 @TEAM-ROBOT: as an engineer, I can confirm it’s magic.
And also elves… who live in the head tube and don’t like the sudden increase in tourism.
  • 19 0
 I read, "In Canyon's copy, they write about how most other vehicles, be it planes, cars, or even boats, have a device to self-center their steering." I immediately thought: No, they don't! That's a function of the caster angle for automotive steering—a similar principle for boat rudders and plane control surfaces that gives us what we call "trail". That is a physical design trait due to good and simple design and engineering. No unnecessary gadgets or gizmos. Push a wheeled office chair around and by magic, all the wheels suddenly line up.
  • 5 1
 @TEAM-ROBOT: but try that on an incline. More trail = more wheel flop, and this is compounded while climbing, and made more difficult to manage with obstacles at lower speeds. It makes sense that the the positive feedback wof the KIS is on the climbs.
  • 1 1
 @mwysel: 10/10 comment. No notes.
  • 7 0
 @dpbradley: No argument, and everyone in this comment section has felt the sensation of wheel flop climbing a slack mountain bike up a steep hill. Totally agree, high trail numbers instantly suck when the bicycle isn't on a level or downhill surface and doesn't have momentum pulling the wheel straight, and like you said those steep climbs are where the KIS system seems most helpful. My complaint was with the Canyon engineer's implication that cars have a device to self-center their steering and bicycles don't, which is ridiculous. Even worse, there's an implication that Canyon stumbled across this basic engineering principle and Canyon alone has adopted it to cycling, when in fact steering trail on bicycles predates the incorporation of pedals and gears. Bikes have had steering trail since before they were even called bikes.
  • 28 0
 As a German living in the US, I can't help but chuckle at my compatriots using that acronym to describe the exact opposite of keeping it simple.

And I think Henry's well written and thoughtful article (haven't watched the video yet) does a good job of explaining what they're trying to do and why. What I'd love to read more about, though, is some consideration of the effect of speed and dynamic loading on stability and wheel flop and all that. Wheels create stability that increases with speeds, as they're big old gyros, and bottom bracket drop combined with dynamic loading creates stability that has a big effect on how stable/planted your bike feels. That, of course, is mostly a question of flat/gently rolling/descending trails - climbing is a different story.

I find all that Canyon talk about "other" vehicles interesting - they are talking about things that either are planted of four wheels (cars), or otherwise are subject to aero- or hydro-dynamics (planes and boats), but doesn't address motorcycles. You'd think that would the first place to go...
  • 18 0
 The reason is that motorcycle designers have always used the correct fork offset in relation to the steering angle and wheel diameter. The approach in the bike industry with "one offset fits all" and then regardless of the physical facts every new model year to make the steering angle one degree flatter and then wonder that the wheel flop becomes too extreme, happens only to the clueless morons in the bike industry.

KIS is putting the cart before the horse.
  • 1 0
 @Namrek: Actually it’s not really necessary. Yes, there might be a point, where with ever longer forks and slacker head angles the steering might not be sufficiently self centering any more. But we are far from that point with mountain bikes.
I used the ride a Harley chopper (don’t ask me why) with a head angle slightly below 60 degrees, and it was not an issue.
  • 1 0
 @FuzzyL: Harley Davidson had to take appropriate measures to make it not an issue and you could ride relaxed also at low cruising speeds. Keyword: negative offset - to bring the trail to usable values such as 3.5 to 4.0 inches. That's not what you see in the bike industry. Weather 27.5", 29", DH bike, trail bike, etc.. - it's all a swamp with more or less extreme effects and then with blossoms like KIS.


The good thing is that humans get used to everything...
  • 2 0
 They do make motorcycle steering stabilizers - or rather hydraulic steering dampeners. I have never felt the need for one but I think they might actually do what they are meant to do - resist very sudden changes in steering angle. Somewhat tellingly, they are popular with old dual sport guys but I've never seen any Cat A equivalent dirt bike racer run one. If you set your suspension up correctly and ride fast, your steering should stabilize itself. Anyway -- being undamped, this thing sounds like a steering oscillator, not a stabilizer. Could be exciting, with the right inputs!
  • 30 7
 A worn, notchy headset might give that recentering sensation, but at a lighter setting-and if KIS feels like that but more...ick. Might be good for flabby armed broped riders wrangling 50 pound machines though.
  • 5 2
 Ahem... E-biker
  • 22 0
 "In Canyon's copy, they write about how most other vehicles, be it planes, cars or even boats, have a device to self-center their steering."

This sentence alone suggests that whoever wrote that copy for Canyon has absolutely no idea how bicycles actually work. This isn't just a solution looking for a problem, it's a non-solution that actually creates a problem.
  • 13 0
 They also don't know how cars or boats work either...
  • 26 1
 This seems apt for ebikes so the riders won't have to pedal or steer now.
  • 2 0
 Was gonna post the same video !
  • 1 0
 I really think the damper would have some benefits downhill. I’d love to try one (hoping to snag a viscoset when they go on sale). It’s one thing that was missing for me, coming from motorcycles to MTB.
  • 1 0
 @iduckett: try the hopey steering damper, I haven't but I'm curious too
  • 1 0
 Dampers were a BIG thing in DH in the late 90s / early 00's bc the head angle were so steep that every thing was fast and clipping a rock didn't move the front of the bike over but little change in steering angle (which is the effec\t I experiece on my last two bikes, wider bars help too) but the wheel DIRECTION would change. they were pretty clean.external designs. This though (chef kiss) WANT!
  • 14 0
 Since Henry loved it on the climbs and hated it on the descents, I think we've found the perfect opportunity for another remote lever on the bars.
  • 2 0
 Bring back the specialized brain and hook it up to the steering, both the shocks, and the dropper post, automatically shifting into downhill mode and uphill mode. What could go wrong.
  • 8 0
 Scott has entered the chat.
  • 2 0
 I sell a QR lever that is a replacement for the KIS bolt for $300.
  • 15 0
 How about not having weak ass spaghetti arms instead.
  • 12 0
 Lol, the bike industry never fails to truly try to over complicate the bicycle…..and the riding experience itself.
This is why BMX and DJ riders are happier more fun people.
  • 5 0
 Thank you. I feel like nothing would shape up some of these people like a few good slams on some skatepark concrete. Hard on the body, but good for the soul.
  • 10 0
 I have beef with the Canyon copy. I have never driven any car that has an active system to centre steering. Proper wheel alignment returns the steering to centre. I have been on a lot of vessels as well and none have this. Some are even the opposite... let go of the wheel or tiller and she is headed for full deflection.

Did not watch the video. Did you ride with no hands? My cheap e cargo bike could use something like this, or a steering damper. It gets a serious death wobble going if I let go of the bars. I am not convinced it is beneficial on a well designed mtb.
  • 4 0
 Your cargo bike has a trail to wheelbase ratio that is probably an order of magnitude less than a MTB, and if it's a bakfied-kind of cargo, no weight on the front wheel. I've made a short offset fork for mine and it helped a lot, I can even ride without hands now, if there is weight in the front.
  • 1 0
 @faul: Thanks. Nice to put a pin on the cause. Higher tire pressure reduces it. Sometimes with the weight of the kids on the back it actually doesn't do it, which is opposite of what I would expect.
  • 9 0
 I am still not sure why I would want a mechanism that would return my wheel to centre? Back in the days of using a Hopey, its main benefit was stopping the wheel being deflected FROM centre. It didnt damp at all at low speed, but only began to damp on bigger deflections. Return to centre was un-damped and un-assisted. As bikes became more stable (read longer with slacker head angles) the Hopey didnt make as much sense anymore. It all seems counter-intuitive to how I would like my bike to handle. As I am turning my bars into a corner, why would I want it to be fighting that input and trying to re-centre?
  • 3 7
flag warmerdamj FL (Sep 20, 2023 at 8:27) (Below Threshold)
 I don't get this either, center is likely where your wheel is the least amount of time. It's like the Halo safety system in F1 cars, it basically blocks the drivers view of center because you are never really going/looking strait. Is this fighting you when your wheel is not centered, so all the time?
  • 16 0
 The main benefit is being able to replacing the spring with a servo on your ebike so you can watch TV while your $20k bike is riding without you.
  • 3 0
 Prob be really helpful for suicide no handers. that's about it.
  • 1 0
 Hopey! That's a blast from the past (I just checked and thier still in business!!! And wow thier website is shitty!). I've been skeptical of dampers on mountain bikes, but after absolutely transforming the rough terrain handling of my 250 dirtbike I would totally give one a try.
  • 10 1
 I just got mine last Friday. It's a mullet which maybe suits it better. I feel like if you focus on the front, making sure it's weighted and pointing it in the right direction, it is more like the back aligning with the front than the front aligning itself. This almost makes it like a mechanical side slip control which lets you slide it out but helps to bring it back. I really like it but I completely understand the skepticism too and the fact that it just wouldn't be for everyone.
  • 1 0
 The force it provides is not going to affect a slide very much at all. What's really helping bring a slide back is focusing on the front wheel, driving it where you want to go with active pressure to control traction and steering input. KIS might actually be bad for this because it will let you be less active with steering inputs which might cause you to also be less active with other hands/arms input and you'll end up compromising traction and overcorrecting on steering. Lose-lose vs the win-win of working on active pressure and gaining actual active (not reactive like KIS) steering control and better resiliency at the limits of traction.
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: Speculating versus how it acts in the real world is very different. Different reviewers had different opinions on it, this is just one. I get to try it in real life and I like it which I think one ups wildly speculating. Still, I completely understand why not everyone would like to steer this way.
  • 1 0
 @ruckuswithani: It's not speculation that active pressure on the front helps with traction and control, that's fact. And if you're doing that properly/well, KIS isn't really needed, because it's doing exactly what good inside hand pressure will do: fight the flop automatically. Unless (let's say it again), you have a specific need to make the bike feel (mostly on-center only) like it has less flop, or more trail, than it actually has. Most riders in most conditions don't need that kind of geometry weirdness.
  • 1 0
 @justinfoil: You're assuming a lot of things here and then just speculating on the causes and effects with no experience of it at all?
  • 12 0
 solutions to problems that do not exist
  • 10 0
 I installed this KIS of Frankenstein on Monday. Didn't ride it yet.
But due to the nature of the rubber, it's a damped spring
www.pinkbike.com/video/580599
  • 1 0
 Haha, love it!
  • 1 0
 Excellent job!
  • 2 0
 Now I did ride it and this is my first impression:
In general when handling the bike, like lean it or carry it, it is nice that the handlebar will not rotate freely.
When climbing steeps, it's a little easier to keep the balance.
And when going down, the most noticable thing was that when I locked the rear wheel it did not pivot around the front wheel as much. In general, I would say the system keeps the bike straight when a wheel loses traction. But I need more time on it to see how much this helps on the front.
Good thing is, I did not notice any adverse effect so far!
  • 8 0
 Planes and boats don't self center like a car or motorcycle. In a plane, after reaching a certain bank angle, you actually have to actively hold it back from banking more. Boats eventually, with enough time will, only because of water pressure (ships won't).

So, guessing the whoever wrote the ad copy hasn't ridden a bicycle, driven a boat, or flown a plane.
  • 1 1
 Is it really that comparable,a bicycle with a boat and a plane?
  • 2 0
 Not defending Canyon at all, but most airplanes have postive dynamic stability meaning they will center from almost any bank angle that is not a stall. Modern jets for transportation proably lean a little more nuetral than they used to due to software control. Fighter jets or aerobatic airplanes are the only ones that will diverge in an unstable manner as you described .
  • 9 0
 With each passing innovation, I lean harder and harder into being a Luddite.
  • 4 0
 Ignorance is bliss my friend, come join the party!
  • 6 0
 @henryquinney
Excellent video, very informative, great descriptions (bit of a wander there with the fork and Meta, but you brought it back, and promoted upcoming stories/videos)
Camera work, editing, it was all great, big props
  • 8 1
 As a motorcyclist who understands the importance of a steering stabilizers, especially at significance speeds, I can't think ever a time or situation where I said to myself, my BICYCLE needs a steering stabilizer as well.
  • 9 0
 i stabilize my bars with my arms
  • 5 0
 Whatever people think of this system, everyone should take a moment to appreciate Henry's work on the article and the video. In a world of reviews which are barely disguised infomercials this is a complex, well considered and legit perspective. Well done sir!
  • 7 0
 There's no way pros are using this. Water in energy drink cans, blacked out Minions, etc.
  • 1 0
 Jesse Melamed uses it.
  • 5 0
 @mkul7r4:
If he says he uses it, I've got no reason to question that.
If he has not made such a statement, then there's water in the can, and a loose bolt on his steerer clamp. Smile
  • 1 0
 @mkul7r4: doesn't appear so in his recent EDR clips.
  • 4 0
 I just ordered a Visco headset from Cane Creek, I'm curious to see how a damper helps with front end oscillation. I don't think a centering device would be that helpful and could even become a distraction, esp if it interferes with counterlean.
  • 1 0
 I've been running one for a few years on my burlier bike. Took one ride to get used to it, now bikes without it feel like they had too much coffee.
  • 1 0
 @R-M-R: Nice, I hope I feel the same, it's not like I can't handle my bike but it would be nice if the twitchiness was calmed down... of course then I'll want one for my other bike and they are not cheap!
  • 3 1
 @sanchofula: "it's not like I can't handle my bike"

Of course, and I certainly wouldn't think that! There was a time when some people regarded front suspension as a crutch for weak riders. Then the same about rear suspension. Then tires wider than 2.5". Some people will always convince themselves they're the baddest badass that ever ... assed? The rest of us can enjoy bikes that feel better and go faster.
  • 4 0
 "In Canyon's copy, they write about how most other vehicles, be it planes, cars or even boats, have a device to self-center their steering."

Do they have any solid examples of self-centering devices in other common applications? Because I'm pretty sure most of it in a car comes from steering geometry (caster), not any kind of active, or reactive, device. Same with a bike: trail makes bicycles self-center already. With boats... you don't really want a boat to self-center, because turning inputs often need to be held, and "centered" is rarely truly centered because of winds and currents and waves.

This [re]active device is trying to provide the feeling that the caster effect from trail is higher than the actual geometry would provide. If you like/need/want more caster effect but don't want to get it by reducing fork offset (also less wheelbase, and less flop?), or slackening the head angle (also more wheelbase/FC, and more flop?).
  • 1 0
 Correct! Cause and effect. It saves FOX and RockShox from having to produce the correct fork offsets that the current geometries would actually require...
  • 4 0
 "the same way that a fork that rebounds too fast from deep in its stroke only to hit another edge can feel like you're getting double-bounced"

Except when it rebounds fast, you hit that second edge with the fork more extended, and that means the spring is providing much less force, that should feel _less_ like getting double-bounced. The _wheel_ might feel like it's getting bounced since it's making long fast moves, but not you.
  • 1 0
 yer right. I'm thinking. 'what's he thinking?'
  • 5 0
 The customer that buys this will be the same customer complaining about the technical difficulty of black trails and why they should be easier for him/her to ride in Bentonville...and everywhere else.
  • 3 0
 don't get me started. the number of ride-arounds or trail alternations to make the trail easier has been driving me crazy. what happened to learning how to ride an obstacle or admitting that you have to get off the bike until you can? if you ride around, you still didn't clear that feature..
  • 4 0
 @twonsarelli: while I can like the idea of a 'squirrel catcher' I think that there are so many trails where many riders can easily ride everything except the few hardest features.
Having a ride around let's do many more riders feel the joy of that trail, rather than the elitist concept that unless you can send that single double black gap jump you should miss out on the 2 miles of no jumps on the trail.

Just something to think about.
  • 3 0
 @BarryWalstead: totally valid points. The number of legacy trails that are being altered by illicit ride arounds and braided segments is my main complaint. There are many sections of trails that I still have to hike but I always work really hard to ride everything possible, even if I have go to back and try 5 or 10 or 15 times. Just yesterday I cleared a section that I’ve only done once in its entirety before. The challenge is part of the fun of riding and accomplishing something hard is very rewarding.
  • 4 0
 "In Canyon's copy, they write about how most other vehicles, be it planes, cars or even boats, have a device to self-center their steering."

Did they really write that? Embarrassing, because it is false. None of those other types of vehicles typically have devices to self-center the steering. Cars and trucks (and bikes) steering geometry is set so that forward motion tends to center the steering. Air and water flow act to center airplane and boat rudders.
  • 6 2
 I applaud Canyon for trying something new. The idea of having an integrated system to fight the "front wheel tuck = instant death" situation is very interesting and appealing.
  • 1 0
 Except it doesn't help against tuck: the force it provides is the least, relative to tucking forces, when it would matter to prevent said tucking. In that aspect it's only going to distance the rider from feeling the forces that could actually cause a tuck.
  • 5 0
 bike companies should really stop all these unnecessary stuff and just invest into making a lightweight gearbox like seriously
  • 5 0
 I scrolled thru, read a lot of it (admittedly not every word) and looked at the pics.

My take away is Henry got seasick riding his bike.
  • 4 0
 I feel like that should be the end of the review
  • 2 0
 @CobyCobie: 100%, for me it was. I have an inner ear disorder, one of the symptoms is occasional vertigo. For the most part I can manage it, but to take a chance on a system that did this to a presumably healthy person? It would have to offer a clear, massive benefit.
  • 3 0
 It seems like the problem it's trying to solve and the compromises are misaligned. My very quick summary of Henry's thoughts is basically: Helps on technical climbing to fight the wheel flop that is a consequence of slack head angles, but then doesn't feel great when descending. But picking that apart a bit, you get the slack head angles on bikes that are *prioritizing* descending ability. So it makes little sense to me to go and add something further on to a bike to "shore up" a trait (climbing) that wasn't really a design goal of a bike at the cost of the thing that was the main purpose of the bike.
  • 4 0
 You're right - but there is a trend of slacker and slacker short travel bikes, the all-rounders like the Rocky Mountain Element, that have climbing as part of their purpose but are starting to have enduro-bike-ish head angles (65mm). The marketing language says it's XC, but the head angle says it wheel flops. I feel like tuning this system to kick in firmly an inch before the wheel flops on a bike like the Element would be interesting.
  • 3 0
 Here's the thing about undamped springs: *Something* has to take the energy out, or it will oscillate. That means, if this thing truly is undamped, that if you have a smooth concrete floor and you twist the bars and let go, the front end will oscillate back and forth. There's going to be some damping from the grease in the headset bearings and the generation of heat, etc., but at the end of the day you the rider are probably the one doing the damping.

I'm not sure what any of that means, I'm just being a nerd.
  • 1 0
 Not with the lobes on the attachment points. It needs increasing force to move from centerline. So unless you keep feeding energy into the system it will barely ocillate.
  • 1 0
 @BarryWalstead: and the cam shape means it also has increased force moving it _back_ to centerline from the other side, equal and opposite of the increased force needed to move if off center. OP is correct.
  • 3 0
 Well ebikers dont want to do 100% of the pedalling anymore so why should they need to 100% of the steering. All it is missing is a motor and they could run it on ecoSteer and it will be just like regular steering but a lot less work.
  • 3 0
 I like well-produced, thoughtful and balanced reviews of kit and innovation. And this is exactly one of those. Nice. And it gives honest feedback to the designers and clear insights for would be purchasers. Who...on the basis of this and other reviews of the KIS approach...won't include me.
  • 8 1
 Keep it simple?
  • 5 0
 Oh, the irony...
  • 8 0
 Keep it stupid
  • 4 0
 Seems like a trivial issue, but is it difficult to ride with no hands on the bars? You really need free headset rotation to make balancing feel natural.
  • 1 0
 Yeah, I have a primitive version of this on my touring bike (it lets the bike balance when parked on its two-legged kickstand), and it's definitely harder to ride it hands-free than before I added the steering spring.
  • 5 3
 Centrifugal force also keeps the wheel straight. Why does it feel like the bike industry is trying to make it so you don't need to know how to ride a bike to ride a bike? I fear for our children and this WALL-E future of bikes
  • 3 2
 If you seriously think a small spring added to the steering is making biking too easy, you should better be riding a fully rigid fixed gear single speed... Maybe let's say that air tires are ruining biking next, I fear it makes us to soft, we should go back to hard rubber tires on Penny Farthings.
  • 4 0
 @whateverbr0: centrifugal force does not keep a wheel straight. I think what you want to say is that conservation of angular momentum makes it more difficult to turn a rolling wheel. And even that, though true, is not very relevant on a bicycle.
  • 2 0
 You're thinking of ebikes yet blaming this silly spring?
Go back to your velocipede ya luddite!
  • 1 0
 @finnspin: nah, he goes all the way back, not even pedals. :-D
  • 1 0
 @ak-77: Good call, I was thinking of the gyroscopic effect not centrifugal force.
  • 2 1
 @whateverbr0: except neither of those do it. Bikes have been created with extra wheels to cancel gyroscopic effects, and they still self-steer. It's the caster/trail that actually does it.
  • 1 0
 @whateverbr0:
Velocipede = An early bicycle propelled by pushing the feet along the ground while straddling the vehicle.

Luddite = one who is opposed to especially technological chang.

Does that help?
  • 2 0
 @justinfoil: and bikes have even been created with no trail and they still self-stabilize. It's the faster response time of the front assembly that does it.
  • 2 0
 @BarryWalstead: I wonder if you’re this much of a dick elsewhere or just online
  • 1 0
 @whateverbr0: I certainly didn't mean tk offend, how was I a dick?
  • 1 0
 @ak-77: what do you mean by "faster response time"? Faster than what?
  • 2 0
 @justinfoil: pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21493856 The whole thing is a bit complex, it's described in this article. But the man himself can explain it better than I can m.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y4mbT3ozcA
I attended a talk by him once at my uni. What I got from it is that the front basically moves sideways to correct lean faster than the rear (including rider) falls over and this is what stabilizes the bike.
  • 2 0
 Ignoring the all the reasons listed already, from the standpoint of a shop employee I really don't think this makes sense for a direct to consumer brand. They're bound to be setup incorrectly, break, bind, etc. and then where is the owner left to go? I'm not a dealer (obviously), sure I can eventually figure it out but my time costs money and believe it or not good shops are not trying to rip riders off. I think direct to consumer works when the bike can be serviced at any shop but it's always a bummer to tell someone I can't perform a service because I need a proprietary tool/parts/knowledge that isn't applicable to the brands we carry. That's just my 2 cents
  • 1 0
 I'm curious what you think is the difficult part about this from a setup or maintenance standpoint?

If it seems to have become offs, loosen the bolt, center the bars and tighten that bolt.
Maintenance? Quite literally none.
What am I missing here?
Sure, it might not be a useful piece of tech for you but to say it would be a problem from either an owner or professional bike mechanic seems silly.
  • 2 0
 I have about 20 bikes. The only one I could see this being even remotely helpful on is my tandem cruiser… and not even when riding. When parking it, especially if the front basket is loaded up with stuff, the wheel will flop, overpowering the kickstand and causing the bike to tip over (yes it has a basket and a kickstand and yes my wife and I look like dorks when riding it). But leaning the bike against a wall or pole accomplishes the same thing for free.

Other than that one very specific situation, KIS seems like a solution looking for a problem.
  • 2 0
 Such a device has existed for ages (recent example: www.hebie.de/en/parking/stand-accessories/steer-damper/695).
  • 2 0
 If mountain bikers stopped spending money on silly "progress" like this and instead went riding with better riders or just traveled to different riding spots, they'd be WAY better off.

Go to Whistler for a week. You'll get better.
  • 2 0
 @henryquinney I'm not totally sold on it, but your video and explanation is first rate, seriously.

Hopefully you don't take criticism of the system as criticism of the write up, plus you never know with this stuff, you may have the last laugh....
  • 2 0
 I dont know what was worse.
The idea of a steering damper, Henry sending me to sleep or Henrys fork setup (you have paid for the travel, use it)!

I feel sorry for Henry having to make a 15 minute review about this idea....
The video started about the riding 2 bikes back to back, I really wanted to see some riding comparison between the 2 bikes, up something janky, but it never happened.
  • 4 0
 We need this tech about as much as headtube cable routing.

Or another axle / wheel standard.
  • 3 0
 Not sure about the KIS thing but I really enjoyed the video. Especially the bit with the lentil and imitation bacon soup. Nicely done!
  • 4 0
 Henry's deepest inner thoughts come to the surface here in the article...."Similarly, while I am a fan of long rear ends"
  • 1 0
 The force curve and the purpose seem misaligned. Wouldn't you want the force to kick in at the moment of wheel flop, and have zero force before then? Could completely change the utility of the system.

Also read the whole article thinking "ok we have dampers and we have springs, and we hate both of them when they're not paired" and thought that describes pretty much all suspension systems. Why not try both, and maybe even... tune them?
  • 1 0
 My pitted, not adjusted properly XT headset on the 93 Klein did the same thing...an indexing headset always brought back to center. With the added benefit of always knowing when your bars were not straight. #EverythingThatIsOldIsNewAgain
  • 3 0
 When I see the term KIS, I think of KISS, or keep it simple stupid, you know, the opposite of what this device/mechanism will do.
  • 1 0
 Thanks Henry for this deep review... but wouldn't it be a good idea to ask Jesse Melamed and Fabien Barel's statements and feedbacks about this system, knowing in advance that it's gonna biaised 'cos they work for Canyon. Ha ha...
  • 1 0
 I am still curious to hear some ride impressions from a bike with linkage steering that solves this wheel flop problem by separating wheelbase and trail from headtube angle. Like, a 90 degree axis with a large offset to the front and then a negative fork offset so you get similar trail and wheelbase to a 63 degree fork. Such a system is commercial suicide because it would look too weird and be heavy but I wonder how it would ride.
  • 1 0
 As you describe it would not work. You would swing the wheel in an arc, side to side and that would be incredibly unstable. Any linkage fork, however it looks of the same 'slack' feel is because it has literally the same rake, offset and trail of a traditional fork. It just looks funny doing the same thing. The only difference is that you could tune the suspension to decrease effective head angle as you go through travel, unlike a traditional fork where by not changing it ends up steepening as you compress.
  • 1 1
 @BarryWalstead: I am not talking about linkage in the suspension (although you would want to do something with that too), but in the steering. A system that offsets the axis of rotation of the wheel from that of the steering actuator (aka the bars) . Like you have on cargo bikes for example.
You need that because otherwise the reach becomes insane. The radius of the arc that the contact patch moves on would not be much larger than on a traditional system, it would be equal to the trail, but the arc would be purely horizontal.
  • 1 0
 It makes sense for climbing, but then again just... get better ya know? But I bet it would be an easy sell if the system can be COMPlETELY removed from the steering when descending, but, then you're riding a bike in two completely different ways with the most important input.... idk man seems dumb.
  • 1 0
 How hard would a North Shore Rack -or other hanging style rack that needs the bars to be angled be on this. Even if it was turn down wouldnt the weight mess it up?
Also climbing super steep & tight switchbacks where the front wheel needs to take a higher line - then the rear tracks lower in the corner- wouldnt this just force you to under correct and push the rear wheel high? I could see it being a burden on threading big babyheads as well where you need to twitch at low and higher speeds. Sounds better for cruising buff deer trails - not the North Shore.
  • 2 1
 Kis is a system, that was developed for the predominant audience of mountain bikes. It's old people and men in their midlife crisis, who will never ride the bike on a trail. It mitigates a problem, that is cause by not using the bike for it's intended purpose and instead riding around on the streets. I ride a way slacker bike, than anything non DH, made by Canyon, and I never had a problem with "wheel flop". However I know the feeling described and notice it, whenever I have to ride somewhere that is not a trail, and could imagine a non mountainbiker might not like that feeling at all.
The solution is not making this useless piece of shit system, but rather giving your customers better bike purchase advice.
  • 2 1
 I would love to see just one day of everyone riding old rigid MTB's at the bike park. People would then see how much easier modern MTB's are to ride and what they've made possible. Things are a lot easier now, some changes are for the better but we're getting into the realms of under powered MX bikes.
  • 2 0
 “Similarly, while I am a fan of long rear ends, they can make it harder to execute certain maneuvers, especially at lower speeds.“

Out of context this brings a whole new meaning to KIS(s)
  • 1 0
 @henryquinney were you able to gather impressions through rough and technical descends? Many people I talked with claimed that the KIS-system worked best on rough technical descends. This is reflected in the opinion of Seth from Seth's Bikehacks, aka Bermpeak.
  • 5 2
 We now have power steering to go along with the motors. Real question is, when can we have air-conditioning for summer?
  • 2 1
 Nothing like power steering, because well..it's not powered, unless canon invented a "free energy" device to add into the spring.
  • 2 0
 @finnspin: It's a joke....
  • 3 0
 bikes are getting too cheap better add some unnecessary gimmicks to justify asking for 5-6k for frames
  • 4 0
 Terrible concept.. Poor design
  • 3 0
 I can see how a steering damper would be beneficial to a mountain bike but not this “steering spring”.
  • 4 0
 How about Keep It Simple?
  • 3 0
 This is one of the most pointless creations in mountain biking. just get better arm strength. It won't hurt you.
  • 2 1
 Same applies to 35mm bars
  • 1 0
 @rad8: yeah. My XC bike has them for some reason. There probably aren't any bars like it anymore. Bontrager doesn't make them anymore. They have like 3° rise and 7° back sweep.
  • 2 0
 @henryquinney - given you have some time on KIS it would be good awesome if you tested a Rulezman stem youtu.be/oCi9LzaMm10?feature=shared.

0mm ESL is where it's at.
  • 1 0
 PS great video. I like that you're not just regurgitating the marketeers copy and evaluating for yourself.
  • 1 1
 Well, I remember trash talking 27.5 , 29ers, droppers, and even wide bars. They were all game changers, we just didn't want to accept new industry 'cash grab' standards. Not to mention a bunch of other upgrades. Yes Kis makes a lot of sense for climbing, but once up to speed, spinning wheels are gyro stabilizers. So maybe it's a good idea, if simplified and lightweight.
  • 2 0
 "You can release this bolt should you need to change the fork or service the headset."

You can, or you must?
  • 1 0
 I loved my Hopey back in the day of 71 degree head angles. In the era of 65-66 degree "XC" bikes, they're a bit pointless (at least for me).

This seems like a Hopey but much crappier, and much more annoying to deal with.
  • 1 0
 Perhaps having a way to completely disengage it would be beneficial. That way you can reap the benefits during climbing and turn it off when descending. Adds complexity but some people may want the added benefits.
  • 1 1
 a bicycle requires counter steering to initiate a turn and realized heavily on centrifugal force to help keep the bike stable and balanced, all of which this system does not lend itself well to. It's a very unique vehicle in that sense which is why such design has no business on a bike. For many shop mechanics out there who have ridden a bike with a damaged indexed headset, you know damn well how terrible it feels to ride hahah.
  • 1 0
 Of all the things that would make me want to run out and buy a new bike this is not one of them. Also if it were free I probably would still not want it as it adds to the maintenance/complexity of a frame.
  • 1 0
 sounds like it needs a lockout lever so it's on when climbing but can be turned off for descending. Everybody loves lockout levers and if not, there could be an electronic option. more levers and more electronics = win-win!!
  • 2 1
 I am confused with the last photo, is that a Pivot logo on a Canyon bike with a Float X on a DH rig? I know off topic but the most interesting part of this article...
  • 2 0
 This might clear it up for you

youtu.be/bbE3ZMj0dyI?si=5Ku8Z7KwhAHGgwTs
  • 3 0
 Actually can't tell if this is sarcasm or not lol
  • 2 0
 That's the grim donut v2
  • 5 0
 @onawalk: Man I should downvote myself, out of touch with Pinkbike, my bad gents. However still the most interesting thing in the article.
  • 1 0
 @BornOnTwo: All good,
enjoy
  • 1 0
 I can see the benefits of it while in the workshop stand. I have one on my Kona Minute which is only really useful when loading the bike while its on the centre stand.
  • 3 1
 Just weld the steering straight! Problem solved no need for springs. Who needs to turn...not me
  • 1 2
 Was pretty surprised when Troy Brosnan started using it and now to read that Jesse Melamed has too it makes me think there must be something there. Dirt bike guys have been using steering dampers for years and I had one on my last and it really makes a difference in that application. As Henry alluded to having a damper vs. just a spring would make more sense but then there is considerably more complexity and weight. Anyway it's not something I'm rushing to try but thinking about rowdy, pinball type sections of trail I could see this having some merit.
  • 7 0
 Pinball machines use springs to increase the chaos. You want a damper (which is never used in pinball design AFAIK).
  • 3 0
 But when you ride with no hands, do you fall over?
  • 1 1
 Nothing wrong with trying things! Unless of course, it's forced on a bike that would be better without it. Sounds like it benefits steeper HTA bikes on climbs, a la XC, but then it's heavy...
  • 2 0
 Sweet. Another approach to making fork & headset maintenance a nightmare.
  • 4 0
 I’m holding out on purchasing a new bike until one is available that has cable routing that not only goes thru the headset, but also has the KIS springs coiled around the cables inside the top tube.
  • 1 0
 Can one of you pinkbike commenters please make a version that straps onto the downtube of the bike and the fork crown so us poor folk can give it a try? TIA!
  • 1 0
 Already exists, although probably hard to install it on a suspension fork crown:

velo-orange.com/products/vo-wheel-stabilizer
  • 1 0
 How does the flop ramp up? Who cares if the flop is 10mm at 90 degrees? If you're steering that far, you're already f*cked and a KIS on the cheek ain't gonna help.
  • 2 0
 one benefit? a bike equipped with this won't have thru-headset cable routing...
  • 1 0
 Cool system. Not sure Canyon, consumer direct brand, should've been the one introducing it given you can't try them beforehand.
  • 1 0
 The only benifit I could see is keeping your bars straight while on a bike stand... lol. Not like there is already many things that already do that.
  • 2 1
 Can't they actively control it with an actuator, a battery and a display with like 16 settings?
This analog system is so 2008...

I'll see myself out now.
  • 1 0
 I'll get it when it's battery is connected to my ebikes AI-teleputer
  • 3 0
 Seasick? Bigger that, I'm out.
  • 1 0
 My B.I.L. Could use this. Just took him on half nelson. He crashed 5x from jerking his bars left and right. Maybe this would help him as he learns to ride?
  • 1 0
 He's learning, that's awesome, hope the crashes don't deter him. I feel like it's pretty common to steer too much at first.
  • 2 2
 I really tried to watch the video. I even read half a paragraph of text while it was playing. The problem is - I just don't care. The biggest issue of this KIS thing is it's just so boring
  • 1 0
 Great analysis Henry. I think you are so much smarter than you give yourself credit for. Then again, I guess you wouldn't be British
  • 1 0
 At least you can remove this from the bike, of you don’t want it. Unfortunately that doesn’t work with cable routing through the Head Set.
  • 3 0
 Is this still a thing?!?!?!
  • 1 0
 I don't think Jesse Melamed is going to be happy about this, being this is the bike he will race..... he's leaving. I'm calling it.
  • 2 0
 The biggest benefit of this system is that it may not work with headset-routed cables.
  • 2 0
 KISS >>>> KIS, this is why this is gonna fail! Go for training wheels if you can't keep your bike stable.
  • 1 0
 Regardless if we think it is an unnecessary solution to a non problem. I got to give it to them on the execution. It's clean, simple, and adjustable. Clean fit and finish
  • 1 0
 This would be helpful when pushing the bike up a hill. I can put 1 hand on the seat and walk next to it, as opposed to hunching over the handlebars.
  • 1 1
 This product also reminds me of that on board computer system or whatever RS has for people who can't be troubled to tune their own suspension.
  • 2 0
 Slow news day, a lot of words for a marketing embaressment.
  • 1 0
 The Grim Donut is post-modern surrealism. The Strive is leaning to techno-futurism, especially if they ever add KIS to it.
  • 1 0
 Did KIS cause the overcorrection out of the berm at 6:37? Not there on the other bike at 9:30.
  • 3 0
 Idiotic
  • 3 0
 April 1st already?
  • 1 0
 Back in the day some of the local DH racers used the Hopey damper system. Some.
  • 2 1
 And crap like this is why I stick to a steel hardtail... Simple, efficient, virtually maintenance free, fun, cheap(ish)....
  • 1 0
 Kinda hyperbolic title. How about “in depth look at Canyon’s KIS system” or something more chill
  • 1 0
 this article is so thorough and well analysed, I'm deeply impressed. top quality, thanks!
  • 1 0
 This reminds me, I still like the idea of a linkage fork that slackens hta as it goes into the travel. Just the idea though
  • 1 3
 I'm wondering how many people in the comments really have ridden it. I've ridden it many times on an EMTB and a normal Bike. And i must say, its a really nice feature! It feels great. For me it takes out all the small movements and helping me keep my line.
  • 1 3
 Anyone trashing the idea just needs to test it then swallow a huge slice of humble pie, it's a brilliant idea and it works, the only issue is lack of easy adjustment whilst riding because what works for descending doesn't necessarily work for climbing so if it was easily adjustable by a quick reach down it would be amazing.
  • 1 0
 All the current bikes I have test ridden feel a little dull & cumbersome
  • 1 0
 That guy deserves a Christmas bonus. Give him a kiss. Quinney nails it again with his infotainment.
  • 1 0
 auto playing ads really make pinkbike feel more like vital, and thats not a compliment
  • 1 0
 Are bikes SO silly slack now that this gimmick is needed?
  • 1 0
 P.S I have a friend who lost 90% use of an arm in a super bike crash, so I Can see the benefits of something like this. Utility bikes too but, general MTB DH etc.. nah......
  • 1 0
 imitation bacon? bacon is one of life's greater joys and you're faking it?
  • 1 0
 No headset routing cable !? I don’t even read the article then
  • 1 0
 clickbait picture, i wanted to see clear bice
  • 1 0
 Until it’s integrated with DI2 or axs it’s useless.
  • 1 0
 I’ll look so cool riding with no hands now!!
  • 1 0
 I’d add to the pros list: easy to bleed damper
  • 1 1
 If the new amazing charging cable for Iphone 15 was a bike product. Whatevs
  • 1 0
 It would be great to get Gene Simmons tongue top cap for this feature.
  • 2 0
 Don't do drugs Kids..
  • 1 0
 Canyon's KIS system: Because sometimes, even your bike needs therapy.
  • 2 2
 this guy really doesn't need to run his mouth so much. trying to hard to be philosophical
  • 1 1
 Can anyone explain how this isn’t a Canyon advertisement? Thanks in advance
  • 1 0
 Solving a problem nobody had or thought about. Lol.
  • 1 0
 Imagine one side snaps on you during a ride. Just more shit to break
  • 1 0
 Gene Simmons does not approve this KIS
  • 1 0
 ???
  • 1 0
 Keep it stiff
  • 1 0
 Williams
  • 1 0
 Hopey haha
  • 1 1
 Ever heard of gyroscopic effect
  • 1 1
 Vastly overestimated and contributes very little to the stability of a bike. Also only works at high speeds.
  • 1 0
 @finnspin: barspins are way harder at "high" speed for a reason tho, not so overstimated
  • 1 0
 lol
  • 1 0
 Germans gonna germ
  • 1 0
 its called go to the gym
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