It’s no surprise to see emerging brands piggyback on the success of established products. The MTB tire market is one example of that - just look at the multiple tire manufacturers developing tires with an uncanny resemblance to the popular 2-3-2 tread pattern of the Maxxis Assegai. The Lewis LHT Ultimate brakes could be deemed a copycat product because they look very similar to the Trickstuff Maxima brake set, at least at first glance.
Lewis is an emerging company from China that specializes in hydraulic brake systems for a variety of bikes at a reasonable price. The LHT Ultimate brakes run on mineral oil and are the most powerful brakes in their catalog.
Lewis LHT Brakes• Intended use: enduro & downhill
• Mineral fluid system
• Patented 2 in 1 reach and bite adjustment
• Ratio adjustment
• 4x 17mm titanium pistons per caliper
• Titanium hardware
• 140, 160, 180, 203, 223mm rotors
• Weight: 310g (actual w/1600mm hose, caliper, lever, oil)
• MSRP: $509 USD per set (exc. rotors, adaptors)
•
lewisbike.com With fully machined surfaces, titanium fasters and ceramic pistons, Lewis has gone all in manufacturing the LHT Ultimates. The lever design boasts two patent-pending designs: a slick bite-point adjustment, as well as the option to change the lever pull ratio. Lewis even has their own laser cut rotors, brake pads, and CNC’d brake adaptors (all sold separately).
At just $509 USD, they aren't cheap, but they do cost half the price of the Trickstuff Maximas. Does that make them twice as good though?
Features and SpecsAs much as the LHT brakes resemble the Maximas in appearance, they’ve implemented more adjustments and lavish materials. The two-piece 7075 T6 aluminum caliper uses titanium fasteners to hold them together. Inside, you’ll find 17mm titanium ceramic-coated pistons help to keep the weight down, compared to stainless steel. They maximize the surface area to up the power and dissipate more heat over their smaller caliper which uses two sets of 14 and 17mm pistons.
The svelte, direction-specific levers are where the real action happens though. First, the lever-throw can be adjusted without a tool by the knurled barrel, but inside that hides a bite-point adjustment screw as well - the first patent-pending feature. While that requires a 2mm allen key, Lewis provides its own tool to change when the pads contact the rotor. I was able to fit the provided 2mm barrel adjuster tool into the tight space by depressing the lever.
Additionally, there’s the ratio adjustment, which is the second patent-pending feature on the LHT Ultimates. By loosening the set screw on the lever pivot, the pivot location can be rotated within a small 360-degree window by loosening a grub screw, altering the progression of the lever. This is similar to the
Formula Feeling Control System.
The difference in positions makes the brake engage early and more consistently throughout the lever stroke, or much softer with increasing pressure. I preferred the linear position for less free-stroke and a more positive feel throughout the lever pull.
Furthermore, the "no oil-loss" lever and hose make for routing the line with less mess and the split-clamp lever is available with a MatchMaker compatible mounting bracket.
The first set of LHTs I tried used a steel-braided hose, but due to the larger outer diameter, they’ve reverted to a nylon-coated, kevlar hose. Those arrived in lengths of 1000mm for the front and 1600mm for the rear, which was just long enough for the basic routing found on my Ibis HD6 test bike. The Kevlar hoses also drop the weight and are available in longer lengths upon request. For the record, I had no issue fitting the steel-braided line through Ibis’ HD6 internal routing, however, other frames may use tighter guides.
As for the brake pads and rotors, Lewis produces those as well. The TP-40 pads use their own sintered metallic compound but are the same shape as Hope Tech’s V4 caliper, which have been historically easy to source. The 12-spoke rotors incorporate a densely perforated design with chamfered edges for less ear-piercing noises, but more importantly, they use a rust-preventative electrophoretic paint. At 2.3mm thick, the 420-stainless steel rotors come in 180, 200, and 220mm sizes and are fixed by the 6-bolt pattern only.
Price and WeightCompared to SRAM's Code RSC brakes, one of the benchmark brakes on the market, which cost $528 USD, the Lewis LHT ultimate are nearly equal in weight and price. Titanium isn’t a cheap material and that drives up the cost of the LHT Ultimates compared to the standard version of the brake, but the fancy material does save weight where steel is normally used.
Additional components like the sintered metallic pads and rotors cost $13.90 and $29.50-32.50 USD. As for taxes, customs and duties, I can’t speak to those because these were a sample set, however, Lewis is actively seeking worldwide distributors which should alleviate any extra charges.
Placing the LHTs on the scale shows the caliper and master cylinder weighs 301g with a 1600mm brake hose, including oil. One set of sintered, metallic brake pads weighs 35g, a set of six titanium rotor bolts is 15g, and the adaptors plus bolts weigh 72g per end. SRAM’s Code RSC brakes come in at 294g with a 1000mm line and brake pads installed, excluding hardware.
The rotors are quite a bit heftier with the 200x2.3 mm size weighing 252g which is about 50g more than SRAM’s similarly sized HS2.
What’s included:
• Brake pads (1 set per caliper)
• One spare olive, barb, pad pin and retaining clip per brake
• Bleed block
• Brakes arrive bled
InstallationThe Lewis LHT Ultimate brakes arrived in branded and well secured packaging along with all of the necessary hardware and bleed funnel.
Starting with the front brake, installation went fairly smoothly. I ran into a minor issue where I least expected it, though. The bar clamp was a little finicky to properly catch the threads on the underside and the screw bottomed out before clamping down on a set of OneUp Carbon bars. Lewis usually includes a rubber pad that integrates into the bar clamp to prevent slipping but this was absent in the package I received. I never experienced that issue on other test bars, but I also never ran into that problem with other brakes on the handlebar either. There’s no need to point fingers but it’s worth noting that brakes with a dual bolt brake clamp, such as Formula, and Magura, do a much better job of dissipating the load on the handlebar versus the hinged clamp design.
When it came time to trim the front brake hose, I had difficulty removing the hose barb without destroying it. Lewis now supplies one additional barb and olive per brake to avoid any frustration removing the barb. Installing the rear line, even with the braided option at the time, went smoothly and didn’t require any trimming for the size 3 Ibis HD6 and 770 mm wide bars. A longer bike or wider handlebar may require a hose greater than 1600 mm. Lewis offers these options and should be specified at the time of purchase.
The calipers arrived with plastic bleed blocks inserted and the pads in a separate zip-lock bag. The supplied brakes arrived with a slot head brake pad retention pin, which makes the process slightly annoying as the tool wiggles out of the keyway. Lewis says that this has been updated to a 3mm Allen key bolt head now. I noticed that the rotor bolts were not prepped with any Loctite and added the liquid for peace of mind.
The bleed process is fairly straightforward and uses a similar method to Shimano brakes with the gravity-fed bleed funnel (or syringe) threaded into the master cylinder and a rag or syringe to catch the fluid at the caliper end. I did manage to get a much firmer bleed on the second set of brakes when I used a universal syringe to pull air from the caliper. Lewis does show an instructional video on their YouTube channel for guidance.
Once they were up and running to my liking, I never observed any oil loss, rattly brake pads, unwinding of the lever controls, or any other mechanical concerns.
PerformanceAfter conducting a proper pad brake-in, I had full confidence in the LHT Ultimate brakes. Becoming familiar with the leverage and power came relatively swiftly and naturally by conducting a few stoppies and skids in the parking lot.
On the trail, the lever functionality delivers power with a light action and a long blade, similar to TRP’s DHR Evo brakes. The pivot is closer to the bar though, which reminded me somewhat of the shape and positioning of SRAM’s Code lever.
Regarding the lever adjustment screws, I wound the bite point all the way out for the earliest engagement and found there was tons of room to adjust the throw. Although the brakes are supplied with a tool to adjust the bite point, it would be time consuming to adjust this on the trail due to the narrow window to fit a multitool in. I prefer to position the handlebar clamp very close to the grip collar to maximize the handlebar width. There could be a limit for some riders, who prefer an even further outboard hand position due to the reach adjustment hitting the grip clamp.
As for the ratio adjustment, there is ample tuning available. When the dot on the pivot is aligned towards the oval shaped markings, furthest from the handlebar, the braking power is more linear. That engages the pads relatively quickly and with little effort.
With the pivot arranged closer to the bar, or matched with the rectangular marking, the lever is more progressive. This increases the overall power, but requires pulling the lever fairly far through the stroke in order to initiate that power.
Either position delivers predictable braking and doesn't switch on too suddenly. I preferred the most linear setting for a more positive, crisper lever feel and quick pad contact.
The trails in Squamish and across the North Shore are some of the best places to test brakes due to the big elevation drops on consistently steep grades. Throughout the review, I never experienced any brake fade, wandering bike point issues, or excessive squealing during wet rides either.
DurabilityExtensive material has been removed from the lever assembly and although I never experienced any bending or snapped components, the handlebar clamp does look like the most fragile aspect. Implementing a handlebar clamp with a dual bolt design could deliver adequate grip without needing to over-torque the band clamp and induce any pinch points on the bar itself.
Otherwise, I never experienced any oil loss, lack of power or sticky piston scenarios either. Once bled sufficiently, the brakes retained their power well and withstood hanging vertically from a bike rack for days at a time.
As for the rotors and brake pads, they seem to be going strong and have lots of life left despite prolonged wet and muddy descents.
How do they compare?Are they identical to the Trickstuff’s Maxima brakes? Well, they don’t have quite the equivalent power. Does this just come down to the difference between the pads and rotors of the Maximas then? It seems it’s not quite as straightforward as that.
Despite playing with the pivot point of the LHT Ultimates, the Lewis brakes didn’t produce an equal initial bite or top-end power. Even with the LHT pivot placed in the most progressive setting, reflecting the arrangement of the non-adjustable Trickstuff lever, the power is strong, but still slightly less than the Maximas. I also switched the friction components (pads and rotors) between the brake sets, which increased the bite of the LHT brakes and lowered the Maximas. Rattly brake pads are a nuisance, and that is one aspect of the Maxima that I noticed immediately. Luckily it was isolated to just one caliper. The LHT Ultimates on the other hand, never made a peep.
SRAM's Code RSC are decent bang for your buck but they don't have the most responsive feel. They can be too linear, delivering power suddenly and not ramping up much, even when you pull harder and harder on the lever. The LHTs have a much lighter lever action that provides a more progressive feel for roughly the same price.
It’s also unsurprising to learn that the LHTs require less force to pull than the new SRAM Mavens. I’ve only had a few rides on the heavy duty stoppers from team red, but so far they are impressively strong, yet function totally different from the LHTs. The main separation is again, the light lever action that the Lewis brakes provide, with the trade off being more travel to hit the brake pad bite point.
When measuring overall power, though, the Mavens win this category even with the LHTs in the most progressive setting. I wouldn’t say that the LHTs ever caused any issues down prolonged steeps, but once engaged, the Mavens do make slowing down less stressful.
Pros
+ Quiet and consistent performance
+ Ratio adjustment is a clever feature to suit mulitple rider tastes
+ Comfortable, light-action lever
Cons
- Levers are not ambidextrous
- Lever clamp is a bit finicky and delicate
- Linear ratio position still has a fair bit of travel due to lever blade length
Pinkbike's Take ![bigquotes](https://es.pinkbike.org/246/sprt/i/bigquotes-left.svg) | The Lewis LHT Ultimates are no joke. They offer effective lever adjustments and are up to the required tasks of gravity riding. While they might cost half as much as their Trickstuff Maxima doppelgangers, they didn't quite match the notorious power of the German-made brakeset.— Matt Beer |
I'll pass on the Chinese slave labor knock offs, even if they are shiny and work decent.
That Lewis has applied for patents for their unique design here suggests they're both passionate, and that they aren't knockoffs.
phew!!!! +1
shots fired
- Objecting to buying Chinese components but only really when it's from a Chinese company. Where do you think SRAM manufactures most of their parts? Taiwain, China, and a few other Southeast Asian countries. Half of Shimanos stuff is Malaysia. TRP will be doing a good chunk of their manufacturing in China with the design out of Taiwain. I have never seen any of those companies getting rinsed over making stuff in China.
- The immediate perception that Trickstuff must be the originators of all things machined brakes. I mean they didn't invent the brake. Notably it's Lewis that has pending patents and not trickstuff (the bite point adjust really is impressive). Yeah they look VERY similiar. Could your mother really tell you the difference between a Trek Slash, a Norco Sight, and a Kona Process?
This is coming from someone who bought some, rode them, and is going back to Shimanos because they just were not my favourites. But to be perfectly honest the quality was easily as good as anything SRAM, Shimano, or TRP make and more or less on par with what I have seem from Hope.
TRICKSTUFF MAXIMAS (had a set of Derritissimas)
LEWIS ULTIMATES
HAYES DOMINION
TRP's
RADIC KAHAS
and prototyping my own brakes
I will tell you, all are great brakes, but MAXIMAS still eek out as #1 in my opinion--- you can feel and sense the high level craftmanship and freaking nuts stopping power. Lewis' for the cost and time frame, excellent brake. But the Mavin's offer an incredible package deal at around same price point as Lewis'. Those will be my next brakes to purchase and test
We can agree that not all things in China are either the same or bad right?
Can we also agree that virtually all things are copies of other previous things, like they "stood on the shoulders of others"?
Hope didnt invent bicycle disc brakes, HP suspension bikes, carbon frame manufacturing, etc
Your YT jeffsey just uses a popularized suspension design that does not belong to them, and they waited until the patent had run out, and voila, bike!
If we can agree on that, we have the basis for a
discussion. Otherwise, youre just grandstanding to make a point, that is on crumbing ground
You will be stoned for not towing to the popular opinion of bad Chinese, bad Chinese
I've been, and ridden there.
I lived in Asia for a couple years, and had the opportunity to travel, explore, ride and race in a bunch of different places. Some of the most well kitted privateer racers, who were so incredilbly passionate, and welcoming to me as a foreigner was so eye opening.
I raced for years here in Canada, and never experienced the "community" of riders and racers that I had in parts of Asia.
A made-in-China, designed in Cupertino iPhone is not analogous to a made-in-China Rock Bros or "LEWIS Bike" company. Stop with your obnoxious, fallacious reasoning.
I often wonder if anyone ever takes a step back and think to themselves just how stupid they sound before they post the same idiotic, and frankly, unoriginal xenophobic talking points that get spat out in every forum whenever the word Chinese is mentioned. But I guess it’s evident that they don’t.
Signed,
Incapable Chinese guy
BUT.....Hope is actually credited with bringing the first MTB disc brake to market:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hope_Technology.
At some point, someone IS the first to do something, and they should always be recognized as the innovator. Without the vision of a better/safer riding experience, rim brakes probably would've kept ruining our lives for much longer. Ian and Simon used their trade skills and applied them to a hobby, which turned into a successful business model. These companies deserve our support, because they are responsible for where we are today. This is coming from someone with 20 years professionally building, selling, and servicing high-end full-suspension MTB who owns and operates a shop. I keep bikes and forks from the 90's on my wall. We can only appreciate where we are if we know the history of how we got there.
Having brands like Lewis isn't a bad thing, because it forces everyone else in the market to stay sharp/competitive. There will always be someone who analyses a market, cherry picks all the bits they think are the best, and rolls them together at a lower cost. Its almost like AI-driven bike parts.
Yeah we’ll all be sure to really take that “patent pending” seriously and respect it… not!
As Americans would say: this guy’s kind of a dick.
the caveat would be, and stay with me, it would have been a scaled version of a moto disc brake right?
Like they didnt invent the disc brake, they literally "stood on the shoulders of giants". Which is exactly how we have anything and everything we have.
If you took a 10,000 ft view of things, for the advancement of society as a whole, thats exactly how we want things. We want people to build off others ideas, we want innovation, we want better, faster, stronger, safer, etc. but we want that within the confines of our Western philosophy and ideals.
I dont propose to know anything about Lewis as a company, so I'll withhold judgment and damnation until shown otherwise I guess. Its a strategy that has worked for me in the past
Or are you trying to make some sort of point?
This has all gone a bit too far for me I think, We have strayed too far
Made in the U.K., supporting British manufacturing in an area that has seen much of it lost in the lost 40/50 years.
The Hope (and Trickstuff) brakes have a staggering amount of residual value too, so they’re probably even cheaper than the Lewis over a 10 year period.
I’m speaking as a guy of Chinese decent who is getting pretty dang tired of the same talking points being shat out every time the word China is mentioned. Not a fan of the government nor am I defending any IP theft, but the amount of xenophobic garbage that gets spat out seriously makes me wonder how I’m perceived at the trailhead.
We’re at this point where it’s becoming a lot of us vs. them in all forms of media. While it’s easy for one to say “it’s not the people, it’s the government, ccp, etc.,” I’m not sure if folks are really taking the time to differentiate or if they really care since l, among others, look like one of “them” especially since covid.
So let’s make this uncomfortable.
My son works for the local company, on minimum wage, doing a job worth significantly more than his wages.
I work daily with a Chinese electronics manufacturer and their service is fantastic, having been to Milpitas and Shenzhen, if I had to live in either location it would be Shenzhen. The treatment of the staff in Milpitas certainly wasn't better than Shenzhen. Luckily for my I haven't seen the other side of either country. I have also worked with one of India's largest design houses on many an occasion, lovely people, want lucky (or unlucky) enough to visit India. We had a remote team and local team with us, their hierarchical structure is very obvious (the company has nearly 225000 employees).
I too have
Dirittessima's
And the Radic Kaha's,
And some maximas that I'm waiting for a new bike for.
And boxes with old unused Hopes in....
The dirittessima's are faultless, oodles of power, more reliable than anything I've ever used.
I'm amazed how big the market share is for the 2 S's when their products are so horrid to use. I guess most people are to scared to jump off the bandwagon and try something else.
I think hope actually did make the first mtb disc brake.
It was a cable operated thing that bolted to your fork leg and needed a special hub to fit the dropout.
Formula 1 teams are always copying and reverse engineering each others' work. How is this any different? Brakes have been around for ages. It's very hard to innovate, yet Lewis has demonstrated 2 points of unique innovation in the lever alone. Kudos to them.
Not sure how the conditions are for the workers, but China is a rapidly growing economy seeing continuous improvement. Tons of bike parts are made in Asia already.
I dont think it helps to further the cause, as it just creates larger walls, and a lot of finger pointing. However I understand the frustration, and understand it can get the better of all of us. Its the eye for an eye idea, but we both end up blind, and the eye doctors get rich....
Understand that I do my best to refrain from judgment, but I also understand that lots of people were brought up in an environment of distrust against anything resembling communism, and that just turns into generalization of a whole group.
Thats not great for anyone, and undermines all our arguments, as people are individuals, and are not defined simply by their ethnicity.
Fack, you brought me back into this discussion, I was trying to remain a spectator, Fack
Right from the title, it "felt" like these brakes had an uphill battle to be considered as a viable product, did anyone else read a lot of skepticism that never really had the "but after all this shit talking, these brakes are actually much better than I've led you to believe"
Maybe just me
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penal_labor_in_the_United_States
Some people say this article is a paid advertisement, others say it's an unfair condemnation... we can't win aha. I just hope y'all found it interesting.
I think theres a condemnation of the product in every other sentence. But I dont see that in the review of every other horst link Sessionsimilar bike on the market.
Seems like youre playing into the viral nature of the product, to drive engagement.
Just my thoughts, Ive been very wrong before.
Yeah, New York does have some good riders on the ‘gram.
The fact that they made them to look the same as the best quality brake in the market speaks louder to me than where they are actually manufactured. That may be a way of business for some, but certainly not for me. I’ll buy stuff manufactured in Asia that’s at least not trying to blatanly be a copy of something else of higher quality.
Why would you not by a SsangYong? Because it’s from Asia? Would you buy a Honda or a Toyota? What *would* you buy, and where is it actually made (and is it any good)?
And residual value, what are you going on about. If you're looking at residual value when buying new brakes there's something wrong with you I'm sorry.
Maybe you should do some wider research yourself.
My issue with China is that it is the other model of governance/system to western democracies. I am still in favor of messy democracies and will vote with money that way when I can. We made China the factory to the world and now we have to deal with consequences of that power.
I thought maybe I was a little crazy.
I usually really like the articles simply as entertainment, and to learn new things, and Matt Beers articles usually seem pretty straight forward. This one seemed much more biased right from the title, like they could never really let go of the fact that they were very similar to another product.
Your issue isnt CHINA, its the governmental policies of the ruling power, and those that might agree with those policies. Just like youd agree or disagree with being told that America is a bunch of Trump supporting bigots. The general classification hurts us all, and then leads to dislike for an entire group, which alienates those that dont fit into that group.
We didnt make anything, Asia (as a generality) saw opportunity in manufacturing and exploited it. They worked at being excellent at it through hard work, research, determination, etc. WE didnt do it, People, policy, and governments worked at excelling in an area, and the absolutely crushed it.
I am not saying it’s all bad, since it lifted hundreds of millions of Chinese out of poverty. But now that the power dynamics is shifting in the Politiburo and they are moving towards a Russian style oligarchy. That economic power transfers to the government not just to their people.
youtu.be/plHRRFHZ_f0?si=dHUtxw4KvZ-r-AWF
Not only the CP China. Most of our politicians are puppets and or socialistic morons as well strangely paid by super richtig companies
President Bill Clinton in 2000 pushed Congress to approve the U.S.-China trade agreement and China's accession to the WTO,[13] saying that more trade with China would advance America's economic interests: "Economically, this agreement is the equivalent of a one-way street. It requires China to open its markets—with a fifth of the world’s population, potentially the biggest markets in the world—to both our products and services in unprecedented new ways," said Clinton. In a speech in 2000, Clinton reiterated his hopes:
For the first time, our companies will be able to sell and distribute products in China made by workers here in America without being forced to relocate manufacturing to China, sell through the Chinese government, or transfer valuable technology—for the first time. We’ll be able to export products without exporting jobs.[14]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States%E2%80%93China_Relations_Act_of_2000#:~:text=President%20Bill%20Clinton%20in%202000,of%20a%20one%2Dway%20street.
I've always figured it this way. Every company is local to the area they are in, so that means when you buy Chinese made products you are simply supporting that local company and helping the employees of said company earn a living. Sure there is questionable tactics being used but this is no different than anywhere else in time when it comes to manufacturing. It's literally how most the shit we own came into existence. Not to mention there are no truly new ideas just incremental changes over time. Maybe soon everyone will copy the shape of the trickstuff brakes. It's a shape, there are lots of shapes and eventually everything starts having the same shape. Look at most of the cars on the road, maybe 10 different shapes in total with small tweaks for differentiation.
What I do care about is function. Functionally this seems quite different from trickstuff. I'm actually more impressed by this brake than the trickstuff. I'm sure trickstuff is good, but like others mentioned I see no point having a brake that costs twice the competition, you have to wait a year for and can't buy a replacement lever on a whim if you need to mid road trip. Sure I couldn't buy a replacement lever for this either, but it's not painting itself as exclusive oh so fancy. I can leave these parts for all the influencers while I ride my bike with whatever brakes made in asia I decide to.
I can see how someone could get butthurt if they drive their sports car down and something that looks a lot like yours pulls up next to you, with some 4 cylinder that barely moves it off the line. But why would you care? It's not gonna take the market away from the real sports car if it doesn't have the performance. And if it does have the performance, with completely different technology, but looks about the same and costs half, I know what I'd buy.
When they get their annual bleed, the fluid is almost the same colour and still fully transparent. They never fail or have a wandering bite point. I've not needed any spares in a hurry (but have ordered some parts for service and they turned up in less than a week from europe to NZ) and every single small part is available to buy, so dont need to replace a whole caliper or lever.
The issue with shipping, even if it's next day, is that I'm mostly concerned about keeping the bike running on a road trip. If I'm home, I have bike shops around, all the spares I can think of. But if I'm out on the road, racing or just having a ride, it'd be quite hard to get anything shipped and interrupting a trip due to a mechanical would be unacceptable. So having a bike with locally available parts is a requirement for me.
I have no doubt that you are an expert in where semiconductors, passives and discrete components come from, the country of origin of all the materials that make up the parts, probably in robs, reach, prop 65 and maybe in IPC1752A class D compliance.
There are some new fabs under construction the usa but they won't touch manufacturing for a long time.
Maybe if things are not made in china they are made in Vietnam.
We manufacture globally for different parts of our system, we are the largest manufacturer of one part of our system in world, the manufacturing lines are in the building next to where I work. I work in R&D for supply chain and as margins are so tight these days we have to manufacture where supply chain, cost and global impact is the most cost effective. Serving over 18M customers all around the world it's not as simple as just manufacturing at our local electronics supplier. (Plus they are not medical device compliant, their quality and quality systems are a long way from what we would require and they would be price proclusive).
Our head office used to be in Switzerland when we were owned by JnJ. Zug was some place to visit, both in the winter and summer, it's in the dark ages compared to Shenzhen but they do look after their employees well in Switzerland, especially after the American owners make the staff redundant, unlike in America where it's a pack your desk up and get out culture. Could call Switzerland a tax haven and tax dodge too (everyone does the tax dodge who is large enough).
I have a Garmin, made in Kansas I understand? Bought it 2nd hand a few years back, fits with my ethics of minimising waste and not just buying something as a status symbol whilst having the functions like heart rate and activity tracking that I use daily.
I tend to buy what works and meets my needs within my limited budget. I could never justify a swiss watch for myself, status symbols don't interest me in the slightest. It's the cool thing about biking, you can turn up on your super bike and the local 14 year old will still smoke you in every way on his bailer bike.
So I went second hand: Trickstuff diretissma = The Original made in Germany, for only 100 bucks more than the China copy.
Some guy also made the direct comparison Lewis vs. Trickstuff, and the finishing is by far not on the same level.
Even so I have to admit, the Levis guys are meanwhile also doing own developments, for Surons & Co, which look great.
I do not get why they started with 1 to 1 copying, instead of tweaking designs in their way from the beginning.
They added adjustments. Trickstuff have no bite point adjust, The leverage ratio adjustment is a huge feature and pretty unique across all other brakes.
They Brought the price down substantially.
They can manufacture them fast enough that you can actually buy them.
Though very similar in appearance to trickstuff, there are very large differences if observed side by side, the machining around the master cylinder reservoir is quite different, and the caliper is very different. And most importantly, they are not trying to sell the brakes as a Trickstuff product.
Innovation can be many things. Making a product better (through additional adjustments), Cheaper and more readily available (through supply chain management) would be considered innovative in most industries.
It's a shame they look so much like trickstuffs product. If they had made a few more aesthetic changes, they could stand alone on their quality.
They by far didn't change enought to not look like Trickstuffs on the first, and second look.
I mean they basically copied Trickstuff's whole product portfolio (also Piccola levers and calipers), and did only offer what Trickstuff offered at the beginning / when they started.
Please do not get me wrong, if you follow them on insta, it is obvious that they are passonate people, and riders.
And yes, they made cool tweaks and improvements.
I am sure they will build great, very individual brakes, in the future.
I just don't like the fact that they started with simply copying.
This is a huge disrespect to other product developers and designers.
Second, your eyes and brain doth deceive you. They did not add an adjustment knob. They redesigned the actuation mechanism and offered two additional, meaningful, adjustments that the trickstuff brakes do not have.
They didn't change a logo. They designed a different product under their own brand name (which objectively looks A LOT like a trickstuff product, but is not identical.
You know how most tires look like minions. Most bikes look like sessions. And most jeans look like Levi's. Most smartphones look like iPhones. Most slip on shoes look like Vans. It's like that. If you look closer, there are meaningful differences. Those differences may not be meaningful to you - but that doesn't make the the same as the thing you don't realize they're differentiated from.
No Design or Utility patents appear to be infringed upon, so all the internet IP experts who have no idea what Patents actually are should probably sit this one out.
I've been in product development for 24 years and I ain't mad about what Lewis did here. Trickstuff could have done it themselves, but they chose not to add meaningful features or bring costs down, or increase availability.
If they would have been copied by Europeans, or Americans, I just don't care, I would still balme them for being a copy cat.
Plus I really do think that the Lewis guys will do a good job in own designs, long term.
They are smart (see self-patented features, which are improvements of the Trickstuffs), and obviously very motivated.
They brought the goods and borrowed similar industrial design. Most importantly, they broke zero rules. No IP or trademark infringement. No theft of brand equity.
I DESPISE Chinese landfill fodder so I don't have any particular love for the PRC. But these? These are cool.
You can't just take an existing product, copy it 1:1, and 1 tiny feature and claim it's a new product. The only reason this product didn't immediately get taken down was because it's pointless to try to fight the Chinese when they steal.
If any European company had done this, regardless of adding an adjuster, this product wouldn't exist. And if you were actually in product development for 24 years, you'd know this.
Oh these? My trainers? No, they're not Adidas, they're Adides Completely different...
- Copyright: For written works, software and some artistic expression.
- Trademark: Essentially exclusive branding which can take various forms. Must be registered.
- Patent: Specific geographically restricted legal protections over innovations
- Trade Secret: No legal protection at all (other than specific NDA's)
I don't see any of these applying to the Trickstuff product. Fundamentally it's 5 pistons and hose. There isn't really a lot of difference between any of major brands other than a few specific patents (generally around adjustment or leverage rates like Servowave).
Bad style to copy the look so closely? I think so. Illegal? Absolutely not.
If you really need to be mad at someone over this, be mad at Trickstuff for not protecting their design with a patent. A utility patent would have required a novel invention - which the trickstuff brakes do not have! But the Lewis brakes do! Lewis could have gotten a Design Patent to protect the way the product looks. That would have provided some regional exclusivity to the aesthetic, but they seemingly chose not to get a design patent.
No crime is being committed by Lewis - but here you are, making false, defamatory claims in writing that a company has committed a made up crime. That is a real crime know as Libel.
I stumbled across a post about these a week ago and read all I could find about them out of curiosity. I could only find one negative review online from someone who had actually touched them in the real world. So I recently ordered a pair. I have not had hands on them yet, so I found this review and the discussion about them to be quite interesting.
I fully understand why people will be upset about this product existing and looking so similar to the Trickstuff brakes - and I also wish they had a unique aesthetic.
I believe that Veblen goods and the hype around them is disgusting. A Veblen good is one where the price and exclusivity of the product drive demand for the product. I do not buy products that do not offer a real value proposition.
Trickstuff could have brought a performance product to the masses at an attainable price. Lewis appears to have proven this, even adding features that I find very intriguing. Instead, Trickstuff chose to create an aspirational product, out of reach for most of the people who could benefit from it. If you are a believer in "the greater good" than Lewis is doing more for "the greater good" than Trickstuff.
It's unlikely that someone buying a Lewis brake would otherwise be a Trickstuff customer.
And regarding the 1:1 copy - there are more differences between this and trickstuff than similarities. The piston sizes are different than the Maxima, the mechanical leverage appears to be a bit different, not even mentioning the genius coaxial implementation of a bite point adjustment and the eccentric lever pivot.
Do you get mad that some tires look like other tires and assume they are 1:1 copies/knockoffs, then make false statements about that company stealing IP?
Am not a Trickstuff fan boy (ran several of their Cleg models years ago, didn't like them at all), don't care about LH neither. Simply don't like what's happening.
What is the problem with the brakes in your opinion? I've red plausible personal reviews that suggest they are quite good. And about what are you angry with your (former?) employer?
Make it like enduro-mtb's shootout test in 2018: enduro-mtb.com/en/best-mtb-disc-brake-can-buy
Also, please then test pad and rotor combinations with a control set of brakes.
Yes yes yes, absolutely this
I'd also like to see a measurement of how much force it takes to actuate the lever from the start point up to the engagement point, to better understand how stiff the return spring in the master cylinder and square seals is. I've found some brakes have excessively strong pushback against your finger force, even without any braking power being applied, and the Maven, for example, sounds like it continues in that vein, whereas these Lewis' and Hayes are described as having a very light action.
blisterreview.com/gear-reviews/mtb-brake-shootout
If Lewis doesn't do this, Trickstuff gets to rest on their laurels and that is bad for everybody, INCLUDING Trickstuff.
It's flattery. This movie has played 1000 times before and it's always the same plot. Company A produces a cool whiz-bang widget. Company B uses aforementioned widget to inspire their own take and deliver something with a similar, but different value proposition.
Now we find ourselves at a crossroads. Company A can choose to respond with better support, brand cache, continued innovation that is better than company B, or otherwise. OR, they can grumble and say "this never should have happened".
This is exactly how the consumer benefits. And if you're offended for company A, then it just shows a lack of faith in their supposed superiority because apparently you believe somebody copying them suddenly vaults them into irrelevance.
This is ONLY ever a bad thing for Company A if they were never cut out to serve the market for the long-haul anyway.
Long live the consumer, may he always win.
Thank you for your high and objective evaluation of this brake. However, based on the labor cost of its production in China, it is actually not cheap. The main problem is that its texture is a bit too cheap, and the texture makes people feel Unbearable.
You’re good - lots of the commentators here are pretty disgusting and I can’t imagine what they’d be thinking if they see folks like you and me on the trail.
The reason that IP protections exist is largley to promote creativity and innovation. Trickstuff likely spent years if not decades developing their products, and spent a lot of money to do it. Now another company CLEARLY copies their product, intends to look just like a successful product, and even this website directly compares the two. Anyone who claims there is even a question of whether these are a knock-off is not engaging in good faith. Allowing, and in the case of this article, effectively promoting this product, will cause other companies to think twice about creating an industrying leading unique product in the future. Oh, and the "You do not know what this Chinese company's labor standards are" crowd - well neither do you, and until I hear otherwise it is safe to assume that the ubiquitously horrible labor standards that China is known for exist here as well. There is certainly no reason to think otherwise.
Also, although not relevent here, the practice of chinese copies of IP protected goods have in some cases caused harm and deaths when the knock of product fails in a way that the real product would not. Material selection, testing, QC, and quality are in many cases a key part of the product and design. Knockoff products frequently if not constantly miss this, and the lookalike is only so on a surface level.
Yes, a lot of products are made in China. That is not the issue here. The issue here is blatant IP theft. It doesn't matter if there is a different name, for that matter. The trade dress is what was copied - this product is supposed to look just like another product that is easily identifiable (at least in these circles) without seeing a logo. As others have said, PB should not be engaging in this, but I doubt Outside Inc and its VC backers are willing to be very critical of Chinese money.
And anyone saying it is "racist" to be critical of this should look in a mirror and question just how they became so f**king stupid.
I've been to countless Chinese, Indonesian, and Thai machine shops and factories that other countries would dream of having all staffed by prideful and enthusiastic employees not slaves.
How many times have you been to China and specifically to visit a manufacturing facility?
I am not defending Lewis or condoning counterfeiting, I spend hours and lots of resources combating international counterfeiting for my company and understand it sucks. But if you don't make the necessary moves to protect your IP don't complain when someone clones the concept and adds their own take to it while at the same time leveraging their accessible resources.
But let's ask some simple questions.
What IP of Trickstuff does this infringe on? Do you have the patent or trademark numbers? Does Trickstuff actually have any patents? I don't see any reference to patents on their site. If they have a design patent on the appearance on their MC/Lever than yes there is a path for litigation otherwise I don't think there are any IP infringements here.
Lewis doesn't seem to making any claims to anything besides the patent pending features THEY invented not Trickstuff.
Are there labor issues in China? Absolutely. Do they exist in machine shops not really. Mostly isolated to raw materials, apparel, and electronics.
At the end of the day it is customer choice to purchase a product and the great thing about most of the world not being socialist is that we get to vote with our dollars.
Also, as I said above, whether the brakes are patented is not the end of the question. What this company is copying is the Trade Dress: the image, notoriety, and recognizability of another product to imitate that product. Using an established company's distinguishing design is the whole issue here. Trickstuff took time, effort, and money to develop a great and universally loved product that is recognizable in its design and appearance, and to build a reputation as well. That (and possibly patented design elements) is what is being copied. That is what I have a problem with. You may not, but like people voting with their dollars, they can also have different views on this practice.
Finally, Trickstuff has AT LEAST three patents on elements of their brakes, including the hydraulics specifically. Whether these Lewis brakes infringe on the specific patented elements, I have no idea. But even if they do, the problem with Chinese copycats is that it is difficult if not impossible to stop the infringement. There is little reason to think that Lewis would imitate only the image and visual design of the Trickstuff products, and not the patented elements as well.
I also suppose you have no accountabiliy, or else your diatribe is mere hypocrisy. Typing this up on your locally sourced, organic keyboard, your heirloom laptop, or artisan phone purchased from a fair trade electronics company? No, didn't think so.
How about "We only have ourselves to blame."
Also the little triangles near the bolts on these have 3 sides, the TRPs have 4.
Sure they look similar, but it's just a metal circle and if anything TRP and Lewis both get their rotors from the same Chinese company, just like most brake manufacturers do.
I don't know what exactly you're trying to defend here, but this is a silly hill to die on.
I agree they look very similar, but it's a brake rotor and TRP is just Tektro which is a huge company based out of China. It's pretty reasonable to assume that these rotors could be made by the same third party, or by Tektro in both cases. Either way it doesn't mean Lewis is ripping off TRP and neither has reinvented the wheel here.
Expensive Yes worth it depends what your after but are they fantastic definitely Yes.
And for what it’s worth Lewis brakes blatant copies!
I knew this thread would have some heat in it hahahaha Been following Lewis on IG for a while now, long before they started to garner interest. TBH they look great, have some amazing features, strong reviews, and are a wicked price for a great and beautiful brakeset. Fvck the haters.
m.pinkbike.com/news/hope-launch-new-tech-4-brakes.html
The watch is objectively well-made, nice looking, and runs very accurately for a mechanical watch at its price point. But I often see it and think... Bummer that it's not the real thing. And so I don't end up wearing it all that often.
If you care a lot about original design then maybe these brakes aren't for you. But I don't think that automatically makes them bad. After all, due to the very different price point, they are definitely not stealing sales from Trickstuff. I was never intending to buy a Tudor Ranger for $3k, and a Rolex/Tudor customer is not going to settle for a $300 San Martin.
Says who? Where is this data?
How about non-hinged old/cheap-SRAM-style band clamps?
I wouldn't pay +500 for those brakes, and sincerelly I don't see anyone willing to pay that much for chinesium brakes.
Love seeing more of these reviews surface!
The Kahas have the shortest deadstroke of any brake I've had, engagement is almost instant with very little useless stroke on them. The power is really good, more than Dominions and maybe more than Hope T4 V4 in my very not objective measuring. Definitely more than MT7s and Saints. The lever is really smooth feeling, but they do require a bit more strength to pull the lever to get power out once they engage, not a lot, but a bit more than Mavens for instance.
Bleeding is easy since it uses Bleeding Edge fittings. Mounting can be a little finicky due to the lever brace, but otherwise install is uneventful.
I only have minor complaints. The bleed on mine showed up bad and I had to bleed right away, which took like 10min at most. The reach adjuster is kindof a pain to use with a multitool since it's between the lever and bar. There is no contact point adjust, which for people wanting more deadstroke will be a problem.
I really like them, by far some of the better brakes I've used. More power and/or faster engagement than Dominions, Hope, Shimano, Magura, or Codes. There aren't any brakes I've found yet that really compare to the engagement speed of the Kahas. These are the best brakes I've tried if you like running levers close to the bar, but if you like them out in space with a real linear pull, they might be a problem.
Taylor real responsive with questions when I had issues or questions.
basicaly its made in china A. Lange & Söhne for half price of original.
I’m beginning to believe that the real opposition to anything not produced in the states or Europe is simply a form of racism and xenophobia.
My phone is a Samsung and made by in Vietnam, my bike is 100% made not in China, my clothes 100% slave trade free, appreciate what and where your money goes.
This is probably not the flex you think it is.
Though I agree with PhillipJ about Samsung+Vietnam, and I'd love to hear how ALL of his clothes are "100% slave trade free". I try to follow that in my own wardrobe and know exactly how nearly-impossible it is.
Edit: "nearly-impossible" because I'm just not wealthy enough to do it. Don't want anyone under the impression that I succeeded at that.
Lowa shoes 100% European made and sourced shoes. Sidi or Garneau buke shoes italian made. Denims, 501s, made in Mexico or Egypt. Socks always smartwool usa made, underwear the same, but made in India, I know, but better than China. T shirts, Lasting, made in Czech, amazing wool products European sorted. Bike helmet, KED and others, made in Germany. I ain't no millionaire, but I have a conscious, and giving my cash to anyone that can hurt a Tibetan monk is the lowest of the low, they wouldn’t harm a worm, you don't set fire to yourself on the streets for nothing, the killing of the African elephant for ivory, you support their economy then your supporting their ways
You seem to be ignoring the supply chains. China is an absolutely MASSIVE producer of cotton and raw cloth. As I mentioned above, they also produce wool. Start following supplies for clothing and they almost always involve China. Especially many Euro brands.
Finally, at the end there you kinda go off the rails on a moral rant about Tibetan monks and elephants? Every country sucks. The country I live in is a prime example. The country my parents are from isn't particularly great either. Germany, Czechia, Italy, and Egypt all have morally reprehensible qualities too, whether cultural or regime-related. Tibet's also had some darkness in its past.
I'm not up on UK or EU laws but suspect that the best Trickstuff (now DT) can hope for is to get individual Western distributors shut down, but individual cross-border sales are all but impossible to stop.
It's a bummer, but the best you can hope for is people buying from originators and innovators- at least enough that those companies can keep moving the game forward.
Trickstuff hasn't "moved their game forward" since the debut of the Maxima 5 years ago.
The brake hasn't become more affordable. The brake hasn't had adjustments or features added. And they had to sell the company to DT Swiss in hopes of improving their supply chain. The Maximas represent a flawless execution of a basic brake with a great minimalist design, but making a product more attainable through price reduction and supply chain management is a big forward move.
At the price of a Trickstuff brake, and the typical wait time, they became a Veblen Good, where the high price and exclusivity became their main attraction.
If they don’t have the Maximas within a week or 2 they will and will email you to say they have stock.
All the spares you want plus are now doing spare levers. Regarding that they have at moved forward maybe what they have doesn’t need to move forward at the moment but I’m pretty sure they will have something special brewing as and when needed.
Bought my Maximas off kickstarter about 65 years ago and they have been faultless.They are that good have since put some on my new Am 170 and my incoming AM 200 Athertons.
The new Hopes are killer also being on my e-bike.
Supporting my UK company’s where I can.
Brakes are like Vans , cocks and garages….. they can never be too big!!!!
Like the look of the Mavens though.