Reserve 30|HD AL HD Details • Internal rim width: 30mm
• Rim material: 6069 aluminum
• 32 Sapim spokes, DT Swiss 350 hubs
• Weight (mixed wheel 30|HD): 2036 grams (989 g front / 1047 g rear w/ valves)
• Price: $699 USD / Rim only: $150 USD
• Lifetime warranty
•
reservewheels.com Turbine Details • Internal rim width: 30mm
• Rim material: 6069 aluminum
• 28 spokes, Race Face Vault hubs
• Weight (mixed wheel): 1847 grams ( 850 g front / 997 g rear w/ valves)
• Price: $789 USD
• Lifetime warranty
•
raceface.com Lifetime warranties used to be the domain of carbon wheelsets, a perk offered as a way to give prospective buyers incentive to pony up the extra cash that going the carbon route requires. Now, that same benefit is starting to trickle down to aluminum wheels. This season, we saw Reserve kick things off with their new 30|HD AL wheelset, and Race Face followed suit two months later with the new Turbine wheels.
Both wheelsets are in a similar price bracket, and they're both aimed at the trail / enduro crowd, so a proper head-to-head comparison seemed appropriate. We'll start with the basic stats, and then dig into the performance out on the trail in order to see which option rises to the top.
Rim DesignThe Turbine and Reserve 30 AL wheelsets both have a 30mm internal width, a number that's become the norm over the last five years, and it allows them to play well with tires between 2.3 – 2.6” wide. I didn't experience any issues getting tires seated and sealed on either wheelset, and the fact that the rims aren’t carbon makes me feel a little less guilty if I do end up needing to go hard with a tire lever.
The
Fillmore tubeless valves on the Reserve wheels work especially well, moving a ton of air quickly, and it's great to see them included considering they retail for $50 a set on their own.
Both wheelsets have an asymmetric rim profile, a feature that allows for a better spoke bracing angle and more even spoke tension, although Race Face goes a step further and uses a different rim shape for the front and rear wheel. The same rim is used for both Reserve wheels, it's just that the orientation is flipped from front to back.
The front Turbine rim has profile that's 18 millimeters high, a design that's intended to give it more compliance than the 20 millimeter tall rear rim. Both of those numbers are lower than the Reserves, which measure 22 millimeters tall.
The Reserve wheels use 32 J-bend Sapim spokes, while the Turbines use 28 straight pull spokes. Straight pull spokes can be a little trickier to source in a pinch, but Race Face does include 5 spares with each wheelset.
Based on the stats alone there's not a clear winner in this category. Personally, I prefer J-bend spokes to straight pull, but those spares that Race Face includes make that even less of a quibble.
Hub Design / Engagement The Reserve 30 HD AL wheels I tested are laced to DT Swiss 350 hubs that use a 36-tooth ratchet ring to achieve 10-degrees between engagement points.
Race Face manufactures their own Vault hubs, which have a quicker engagement of 3-degrees thanks to a 6-pawl design and a 60-tooth ratchet ring on the freehub body.
I'm not one to get hung up on having the absolute fastest engaging hub possible, especially since I've found it's not something I think about once I'm a few hundred yards down the trail. Still, for riders with that higher up their priority list the Vault hubs take the point here.
Weight & Price:Reserve: 2036 grams (989 g front / 1047 rear) / $699 USD
Turbine: 1847 grams (850 g front / 997 rear) / Price: $789 USD
I tested the mixed-wheel version of both wheels, and on my scale the Turbine wheelset was 189 grams (.4 lb) lighter than the Reserve wheels. The Turbines are also $90 more, which is typically the way it goes – the less something weighs the more it costs, at least when it comes to items like wheels and frames.
Overall, the weight of both wheelsets is very reasonable, especially for aluminum enduro wheels. On the trail, I didn't notice the weight difference when going from one wheelset to the other. It's not that .4 lb isn't worth keeping in mind, it just that it's not a significant enough number to noticeably affect the handling.
Durability Both wheels saw their fair share of wet rides earlier in the season, and lately they've been subjected to dust, dust, and more dust. All of the bearings are spinning smoothly, and doing a quick clean and re-grease is very simple for both wheelsets – no tools are required to pull off the freehub body to access the racheting mechanisms.
As for the rims themselves, the Reserve rear rim has picked up a few dents, although none of them are large enough to really worry about, and the tire is still securely seated. The Whistler Bike Park is hard on equipment, especially when the trails are running at full speed.
The Turbine rims are unscathed so far, and are still looking fresh aside from some scuffs here and there. While the dents on the Reserves are worth noting, I wouldn't necessarily take this to mean that the Turbine rims are more durable – my ride time on the wheels is similar, but the rides themselves haven't been exactly identical.
WarrantiesBoth wheels have very generous warranties that go beyond the typical coverage against manufacturing defects.
Turbine: • If you crash and destroy a wheel, the warranty applies
• If you dent or flat spot your Turbine rim and your tire no longer holds air, the warranty applies
• If you dent or flat spot your Turbine rim and your tire still holds air, the warranty does not apply. Keep riding!
• Seam separation and/or cracks at the spoke hole, the warranty applies
• Hub wear such as bearings or freewheels are covered by Race Face's 2-year Limited Warranty
Reserve:• Lifetime warranty for original owner
• Crash replacement rim or wheel cost at 50% of retail cost
• Ship out complete wheels as first option, rims and service credit as second option
Detail on Issues
• Dented rim, no paint chipping, holding air: crash replacement
• Dented rim, paint chipping, holding or not holding air: warranty
• Dented rim, not holding air: warranty
• Seam separation: warranty
• Crack at spoke hole: warranty
Ride Performance That's enough comparing points of engagement and spokes sizes – how do the damn things compare on the trail? To find out, I mounted both wheelsets with Continental Kryptotal tires, inflated the front to 21 psi and the rear to 23 psi and headed to the Whistler Bike Park for a round of back-to-back testing.
I consider myself fairly well in tune with what a bike and its associated components are doing underneath me, but I wouldn't claim to be able to tell the difference between an extra scoop of tire sealant in one wheel, or a quarter turn less spoke tension on another – it takes something more substantial for me to pick up on it, and that turned out to be the case with these two wheelsets.
After switching from the Reserve wheels to the Turbines and heading out to do the same lap, a mix of tighter turns with some chunkier sections followed by a higher speed berm and jump filled trail, the Turbines clearly felt more forgiving. They were also noisier too, but I'll explain that more in a minute.
The most compliant wheels I've tried in recent memory are the 3Zero Moto carbon wheels. Those wheels had enough give to them that they could feel vague at times, especially in a bike park setting. The Turbine wheels aren't
that dramatically compliant, and they held up well to multiple berm blasting runs on A-line without any unnerving squirminess. That said, the Reserve wheels felt more solid, especially when hitting corners at high speeds, or landing into a chunky section of trail.
I was able to get used to the handling of both wheelsets quickly, and didn't experience any undue harshness from either set, but the Reserves are noticeably stiffer, and I didn't find myself thinking about them as much as the Turbines. They just roll along and do their job like good aluminum wheels should.
The Turbines rolled well and tracked well, but they also had a tendency to make noise, a resonant 'twang' when loaded up into steep turns, or if an errant trailside branch happened to contact them. The oversized hub shell and shorter spokes seem like the likely culprit here, creating an echo chamber of sorts. I'd put myself on the more sensitive side of the spectrum when it comes to noise (my big ears hear a lot), so some riders might not be as fussed by this trait, but its worth a mention.
Pinkbike's Take | If I'd narrowed my list of options down to these two wheelsets which one would I choose? Personally, I'd go with the Reserves. They were quieter and had a reassuringly solid feel without being harsh; those traits combined with the reliability of the DT Swiss 350 hub, the added bonus of the Fillmore valve stems, and the lower price makes them my pick.
At the end of the day, both wheels are great options in this category, especially considering the lifetime warranties. If quicker engagement and a lighter weight were higher on my priority list I would have gone with the Turbines, but as it is the overall ride feel of the Reserve HD AL wheels won me over.— Mike Kazimer |
As far as testing your theory about the noise, put a small drop of light lube on the spoke head to see if it removes or reduces noise, that seemed to be the trick with some Mavic's I had ran in the past
Concerning the alleged resonance, the hubs containing only a very small volume of air vs rim / tire, if there is resonance it will be at this level. Hubs have nothing to do with it.
The twang perceived by kaz is due to the movement of the spokes against each other at their crossings. it has nothing to do with the potential unloading of spoke heads on straight pull hubs which is an urban legend.
A pullout of the heads could happen in the case of very unbalanced spoke tensions or untensioned spokes, which would instantly result in a donut wheel...
Which could happen to any wheel in this case since the spoke nipples are not fixed to the rim either and only the tension of the spokes keeps them in place… Moreover, even if jbend spokes cannot turn on themselves at the hubs, their head is not fixed to the hubs and can also move slightly. Anyone who has ever dismantled an “industrial” wheelset with j-bend hubs will have noticed the slight wear area at the eyelet and at the spoke/hub contact on the flange, which shows the slight movement of the j-bend spokes relative to the hub.
The only two things that can actually be criticized about straightpull wheels are:
1. difficulty in re-truing them in the case of very loose wheels or at the start of assembly. As soon as tension is sufficient, friction at the spoke head/hub contact becomes such that you can true them without a clamp.
2. spokes length taller than j-bend wheels and the more open angle between hubs/spokes making them potentially more flexible
Straight pull assemblies have a mechanical advantage over the j-pull because the spoke tension is perfectly distributed and exerted at the hub, not partially distributed on the hub flange, which reduces the risk of the spoke head breaking and improves the tension distribution across the entire wheel. This also allows you to build wheels with greater tension if you choose the right spokes and rims (tensile strenght vs. elasticity, c.f. use of alloy spokes in high-end straightpull wheels).
It is true that straightpull wheels do not tolerate mediocrity and even less an industrial assembly with unequal tensions, poor quality spokes (high elasticity steel), etc…
In the case of Kaz, this phenomenon is aggravated by the fact that the wheels are 28 spokes vs 32, (which explains about 50 g of the weight gain vs the reserves). Low spoke tension or bad tension balance explains the more "compliant" feel of the wheel and the noises heard.
In general – and even more so with a straight-pull wheel – you have to check spokes tensions from the first serious ride, tighten and balance if necessary. The more tensioned and balanced a wheel is, the more rigid and responsive it will be.
A quality straightpull WS, even with 28 spokes, is at least as durable as a j-pull WS. There's a reason I9 offers this setup on their high end wheels, and j-pull setups on their low end/industrial wheels...
As of durability, Sam Hill achieved all his EWS successes on straight pull mavic wheelset, which is a testament to them given the beating the same pair of wheel takes on 2 days.
SP Mavic’s Deemax is the most titred wheelset ever on the whole WC DH.
@gabrielastin: Decipher this sentence. Pass me a serviette, I spilled my poutine on the chesterfield....
LOLLLLL... I was like, I don't get it... why wouldn't he be eating his poutine at the table... then I realized I might be transplanted, but I'm still Canadian!
The real question is where do you eat if coronation Street is on?
Both have a great warranty, but with WAO I was charged outgoing shipping (makes sense), for new spokes, labor, and return shipping. It cost hundreds of dollars to replace a rim. With Reynolds, I paid outgoing shipping and had a new wheel 7 days later. It cost less than $40.
• If you crash and destroy a wheel, the warranty applies
• If you dent or flat spot your Turbine rim and your tire no longer holds air, the warranty applies
• If you dent or flat spot your Turbine rim and your tire still holds air, the warranty does not apply. Keep riding and crash and destroy a wheel, the warranty applies!
• Seam separation and/or cracks at the spoke hole, the warranty applies
• Hub wear such as bearings or freewheels are covered by Race Face's 2-year Limited Warranty
I had set of wheels that were noisy... low and behold, spoke tension was low. Tighten them up to typical (100-120 kgf) and they're silent again.
The lifetime warranty is for the original owner. We ship out complete wheels as a first option, with rims and a service credit provided as a second options. Crash replacements for either a rim or wheel are provided at a reduced price from retail costs.
Dented rim, no paint chipping, holding air: crash replacement
Dented rim, paint chipping, holding or not holding air: warranty
Dented rim, not holding air: warranty
Seam separation: warranty
Crack at spoke hole: warranty
@CobyCobie: This applies to basically every warranty in the bike industry, but... Make a warranty that only apply to the original owner. Calculate average length of time people own the wheelset/product (generally by tying it to length of time they'll own the bike). Calculate the average number of repairs (that would fall under whatever you define the warranty as) that a wheelset will undergo in that time frame. Calculate the net cost of those repairs. Incorporate that cost across the number of wheelsets you expect to sell. Add a little bit extra to give yourself some wiggle room in case something goes sideways. From there, you land on a wheelset that retails for around $700, that costs you (over the course of its lifespan) somewhere between $230-280 depending on what your margins are and what margins you're giving intermediaries like distributors/OEMS/shops to work with.
And generally, you want to pick high quality products to do this with (obviously). A cheap 200-300 wheelset that's gonna explode multiple times a year for some riders is gonna cost way more to have a lifetime warranty for. But if you pick something to do this with that has a 3-4% failure rate, its not so difficult.
I tend to hold onto stuff for a pretty long time and I can easily see myself needing to make at least 1 claim a season.
I was just discussing how little science is applied to mountain biking compared to my other sport of sailboat racing. That is pure fact and science (at least if you're actually fast) and in the mtb world it's all 'feeling'.
Are there any significant differences a rider would feel regarding compliance that are empirically measurable?
I can see how an aluminum rim might be more compliant but having ridden very light aluminum rims as well as early ENVE rims that were said to be harsh, I couldn’t tell the difference. I could feel the added width being better for better cushion, and the tighter spokes allowed by the stronger rim sprinted different. I could definitely tell that my spoke wrenches were getting dusty from not needing them much.
Being 65 years old and having ridden mountainbikes since 1983, I’ve seen all kinds of unbacked claims so I’m a bit cynical in my old age.
I'm alwjust curious if after the big old hunks of rubber holding pressurized air if these things can be felt except at the extremes.
Really just a simple force jig with a runout gauge would suffice.
Come on technical editors!
@mattbeer @seb-stott @mikekazimer
I don’t think it’s a stretch that some really tuned in riders could tell the difference ( though I’m not one of them). Assuming only the most perceptive 2% of riders can actually tell, that’s still about 800,000 riders in the US alone (40mil estimated on the IMBA site). Good reviewers should be in this cohort, and it’s more than enough to fill up the pinkbike comments.
I think there’s probably also a much larger number of people who are also gonna spout whatever marketing stuff they hear, because placebo effect x confirmation bias.
Riders at the high end of the load range notice this as their equipment flexes and fails, but riders at the low end typically have little awareness of how overbuilt and overweight their equipment is for their needs.
I've got the NextR wheel set on my chameleon... mullet and 29 set. Stiff. Light. Strong as hell. I had them on my Remedy. Had a few slaps with audible rim to rock contact. No cracks. No spoke issues. No air issues. Stayed true. Easy to bead tires. Hubs were flawless. Etc.
Same goes with my Turbine wheels... they run the same hubs. Literally had zero issues with my wheels. Hell, I've had zero issues with ANY RF product I've owned for quite some time. And I am not light.
Pedals tend to blow out faster than I'd like, but I use them as spares these days anyways. T-Mac's are all I run now.
I've had plenty of experience with the Reserve wheels as well. Great wheel set.
For me it comes down to this...
Weight vs stiffness. I've had no complaints with the stiffness of my RF wheel sets so I'd go that way. But if the Reserve wheels came on a bike I was buying... I wouldn't take them off.
The valves.... those valves are awesome... but you can buy them and put them in the RF wheels... hell I've got some sitting on my desk right now...
I'm always curious what people's experience is when they make comments like this... have they actually had a product fail or are they just regurgitating bs they've heard? When did they have something fail, what was it, how was it handled by RF? ETc.
Just because one of their lower end part failed 10 years ago on you doesn't mean a high end part from today will do the same.
Oh man my VW 2012 Bug was a POS. I had x-y-z warranty issues. Burned through bulbs constantly. Thing had no power.
So that 2025 Audi RS4 must be a POS too....
A dozen wheels per season? Maybe it’s you?
That seems to be the failure mode I've experienced with aluminum wheels. My WAO Union/Strife wheelset has been 100% reliable.
I think it’s because they don’t weave the third cross under, so the spokes don’t touch each other.
I’ll still get the reserves for my next set.
Does it only cover the first rim/wheel that you break and then not the rim/wheel you receive from warranty, or do you basically get rims/wheels for life ever time you break one?
Think that's a typo here, do you mean 'aren't' carbon?
Either of these wheel sets would be just fine for most people. Neither of them sucks.
But I‘m missing one point that is important to me … comparing freehub noise.
At least to me, the quieter a freehub is, the better.
But Bro-LanDog is right... for $100 you can upgrade your ratchet... I needed to get it done at the shop though, the Amazon/no-nameChinese removal tools didn't give me enough confidence
Funny comment, though.
I like that fact you responded here, but whatever you say in a forum discussion isn't worth much if the legal documents don't bear that out.
Seems like a perfectly reasonable question to ask.
We'll @raceface?
They're addressing warranty issues. Introducing lifetime warranties all over the place. Coming up with new products to address weaknesses in the line... etc....
Not sure what else you want from them? But maybe put some ideas out there and see if they listen?
For me... I want some flats with a bit of concave and some carbon bars with a bit more damping in them.
Everything else for me has been a-ok.
I just got some new Atlas handlebars and the bend feels different than my last pair of the same. Idk if they changed the sweep, bend whatever, but all in all I prefer the Race Face from 5-10 years ago compared the the Race Face today.
Pon has nothing to do with Reserve wheels...
RF has its own engineers, production facilities, etc. Outside of legal, HR, etc... separate teams.
Reserve was started with engineers from SC. They have their own wheel engineers, etc.
Pon... Pon is a holding company. It's just the money and management. What you think Pon and Fox just have a warehouse of employees and they're all working on a mess of stuff. Some dude working on VW headlights one week and Reserve wheels the next?
Stupid...
farkinoath has it a lot closer... LOL!!!!
RF designed and engineered and tested in Canada and California. Produced in Asia.
Reserve designed/engineered/tested in Santa Cruz. Produced in Asia.
And it's probably better that way. As long as RF and Reserve are keeping tabs on their factories and their workmanship, that workmanship is cheaper and better than you're going to find in the US and Canada... at the moment...
And then we wonder why MTB is slowly disappearing? With these weights, and MTB bikes growing into 15-18 Kg monsters, an e-MTB becomes a necessity!
What you are looking at instead, a 2Kg plus wheelset, is just ridiculous. It is pretty much one of the heaviest wheelset you can buy (and pinkbike recommends it!!!!!). And note that at a $700 cost, is $100 more than the cheapest DT enduro wheelset, that weights actually less.