Many of the reviews here at Pinkbike revolve around the latest and greatest objects in the world of mountain biking, which tend to go hand-in-hand with expensive and exclusive.
Many of us can't afford to build a bike with the nicest kit around, so where do we turn for banger components on a budget? Today I'm highlighting one of the most overlooked parts in the Shimano catalog: the humble and well-named BR-MT420 disc brakes.
Shimano BR-MT420• 4-piston caliper
• Non-Servo Wave lever
• Compatible with I-SPEC EV mounting
• Organic or Sintered (DO3S/DO2S) pads
• Weight: 310 grams
• MSRP: $134.99 USD
•
bike.shimano.com•
Current lowest price One could easily make the argument that brakes are one of the most important components on your bike - no matter how fast you're going it's all for naught if you can't slow down. A huge part of that system comes down to setup and maintenance, but the base product has to be functional and reliable to start off with. There's no doubt that the nicest models on the market do an excellent job of modulating speed, but the lower end of the price spectrum is where things really get interesting.
Technical DetailsAt $135 per end, the Shimano MT420s are about half the price of their
4-piston XT equivalents, and about $50 less than the
SRAM G2, which is their closest competition from the other big S. They're seen quite frequently as the OEM spec on many budget builds, which means you can usually find a set of the 420s on the BuySell if you keep an eye out.
Like all the other new-model brakes in Shimano's lineup, these use an inboard perch to keep the lever supported against the bar under hard braking. This gives the lever a stiffer feel, and seems to increase the durability of the clamp in the event of a crash. Unlike other Shimano models, these sport a long "touring style" lever, which differs greatly from the small hooked levers found on their higher-price options.
As you might expect with a budget brake, there are relatively few adjustments that can be made at the lever. You have a tooled reach adjust, and that's about it for on-trail changes. Luckily, you shouldn't need too much more, as the available range of positions is quite large, making these viable for all sizes of hands and reach preferences. As with any brake, you can change the feel pretty significantly with a certain bleed, so at-home mechanics can experiment with that to land on an optimal setup.
The BR-MT420 comes stock with resin pads and resin-only rotors, but luckily you're not stuck with them. Though Shimano refers to these as a resin-only brake, the pads are interchangeable with either the
DO3S (resin) or
DO2S (sintered) pads, as they both share the same shape. The rotors you typically see paired with the MT420 are the rightly maligned resin-only discs from Shimano - a product that simply need not exist in my eyes. Sure you don't have to bed them in quite as thoroughly, but to what end?
The bleed procedure is the same one-way system as all other Shimano brakes, and proves to be just as reliable when done with care. Some aspect of the simplicity of this brakeset seems to warrant less bleeding than other options, but I'll get to that reliability in the ride impressions.
PerformanceThere's a fair bit of skepticism about the lowest-price item in any brand's lineup, but in this case that's fully unfounded. Bone-stock, these brakes are good. With a bit of work, they're excellent. Part of what makes them so nice is the simplicity of the lever - these are one of the few brakes Shimano makes that do not use the Servo Wave linkage in the lever assembly, making the pull much more linear than an XT or a Saint.
This results in the lever pull feeling more like a SRAM Code, i.e. longer pull and a more gradual bite ramp up. Compared to a Code, the freestroke is much lighter feeling, letting you feather that bite point a bit more easily.
It's necessary to address the fully-organic elephant in the room: the resin-only rotors and pads. This combo is pretty ubiquitous on a lot of stock builds, mostly because it allows the brakes to have good bite right out of the box without any bedding-in. That said, they do far worse with heat than their semi-metallic or sintered counterparts, and are essentially useless in the wet. Obviously there are myriad compound options out there, but in this case I'm just speaking to the lowest-end Shimano pads and rotors.
In damp and mostly dry conditions, this brake setup does work quite well, offering great bite and a decent run time before things start getting too hot. I do most of my riding in Bellingham, where braking is heavy and sustained, but even on long steep runs I've had the stock resin setup work well enough the whole way down.
Good enough is rarely the goal though, so it's best to modify that stock setup to get the best performance out of the MT420s.
Luckily, this isn't some massive endeavor, and really only consists of replacing the pads and rotors, ideally after you've burned through the ones that come stock. With a solid one-piece steel rotor and some sintered metal pads, these brakes suddenly shine in all conditions, and continue to impress with their reliability.
That reliability is really why I wanted to highlight these brakes. Unlike many of the Shimano brakes I've used over the years, these work the exact same way every single time you pull the lever. No wandering bite point, no weird pump up, no need to flick the lever before that chute to make sure they're still there. I still love my set of XTR BR-M9120s that I've been using for years, but even their consistency isn't quite on par with the MT420s. With regular service and a few setup tricks, I've found ways to make the XTRs work quite consistently, but that level of upkeep can be frustrating when compared with less fussy components.
There is more power on tap with the XTRs (and the lower tiered models in that line), and I do think that hooked lever shape will be more ergonomic for a wider variety of hands, but the Servo Wave linkage is my best guess as to why Shimano brakes are still sometimes inconsistent. Obviously there are tons of theories as to what causes those issues, but in this case the lever difference in the MT420 seems to have cleared them up.
How Do They Compare?The max power provided by these brakes is pretty close to that of Shimano's other 4-piston stoppers, but like I mentioned earlier, the feel of it is a bit different. This really does come down to the lever, the length of which provides the mechanical advantage in the system, as opposed to the clever linkage used in Servo Wave brakes. Where SLX/XT/XTR models seem to have a full-power point that you're not going to exceed no matter how hard you pull, the MT420s do seem to eke out a bit more as you reef on the lever. Again, the top-end power does seem to be greater in the fancier models, but only slightly so.
For folks who profess to liking more modulation in a brake, this might be the Shimano for you. I'm of the opinion that there isn't a lack of modulation in typical Shimano brakes, just a lack of practice in the riders that say they're too digital. Touchy brakes are a wonderful thing when you're already gripped on the bars, as they can reduce the effort it takes to hold on and squeeze on a brake lever.
Compared to SRAM's G2, I find the power and consistency of the MT420s to be better in all cases. The G2 has a tendency to overheat on longer descents, and loses power under sustained heavy braking. The lever feel between the two is fairly similar, with a linear pull and consistent bite point, but the power on tap with the long-levered Shimanos edges them ahead in my book.
I recently wrote about the Hayes Dominion T2 brakes, and they compare favorably to the MT420s. Overall power goes to Shimano, mostly thanks to the 4-piston caliper and larger pad contact, but I very much prefer the lever feel of the Hayes. That super light action is one of the nicest aspects of the Dominion series in general, and it makes feathering the brakes all the more doable when you're flying down trail. The T2 brakes (or the less expensive A2 counterpart) feel a bit more oriented towards trail riding, where the MT420 can certainly hold its own on harder, faster terrain.
It's worth noting that at the moment you can get a set of Deore MT6100 brakes for a little bit less cash than these, so they're not the all-out cheapest option in the Shimano lineup. That said, I still think there are performance advantages to the MT420 that make it a component worth considering over other lower-cost options. Plus, it has one of the better model names in the Shimano catalog, so that has to count for something.
Pinkbike's Take | It's been said before, but components like this really prove it: you don't need the most expensive kit to ride as well as you can. The BR-MT420 is one of the cheapest disc brakes Shimano makes, but performs nearly as well as the higher end 4-piston offerings in their catalog, even exceeding those models when it comes to long-term reliability. Aftermarket pads are a bit limited, but with a good sintered pad and a standard rotor you're good to go with a brake that offers solid power and consistent, easy-to-control lever feel.— Dario DiGiulio |
www.2020-solutions.com/single-post/2017/04/13/420-myths-busted-and-the-true-story-of-the-stoners-holiday.
Virtually every google result for "bob marley death date" shows May 11, 1981, with hundreds of sites de-bunking the myth that he died on April 20. So are you saying that he died at 4:20 p.m. on May 11? If so, can you provide a source for this (which in itself is not proof, but goes a lot farther than simply saying "everyone I've ever met confirms this".)
If you're constantly bleeding them, that could be introducing its own problems. Or you have air ingestion somewhere, somehow.
You'll have to do this once a month to to keep the brake feeling "better" though
FWIW, of all the Shimano brakes I've owned, it only seems to be the rear brake that has consistent issues.
I went through a liter of Shimano mineral oil in a year trying to get the perfect bleed on our brakes. I prefer the light feel of Shimano's, but I moved on to Code RSC's about 1.5 years ago with no issues.
I get great bite out of my shimano brakes if I periodically open the resources at the lever and carefully walk the pistons out, as the pads wear.
Typically I do a full bleed twice per season on my Shimano brakes, with 2 "cheater" bleeds per set of brake pads (cup with fluid on lever to top up the system).
The cheater bleed takes about two mins per lever so it's not a big deal.
Voila, no wandering bite point!
www.backyard-racing.ch/putoline-hpx-r2.5-gabeloel,-1liter/p-33162.html?gclid=Cj0KCQjwxJqHBhC4ARIsAChq4auktu0U7joPdqczx1v9ZXUXfQhP93XGE_i6mkvw5AQ8739OE9emoAwaAoWQEALw_wcB
it says: HPX R 2.5 fork oil prevents corrosion, oxidation, seal leakage and foaming
getyarn.io/yarn-clip/583fe97a-5e82-4a77-b135-cc4d84a28c88
I thought XTs were the best… maybe I should get SRAM Code RSC and be done with it…
99% I fix it like this / I'll write the whole thing..
Attach the bleed cup (half-full), lube the pistons (if really dirty / clean and relube them a couple of times working them in and out of the caliper), push in pistons, insert bleedblock or whatever you have to keep the pistons in.
Attach a syringe on the caliper and see how the oil flows (aka give it a good pull on the syringe) It could be that some dirt is blocking oil flow. I would take out the screw of the banjo, which in some cases attaches the hose to the caliper. Sometimes dirt is clogged a bit around this area. See if you can use some compressed air to give this a good rinse. You can also give the complete hose a good rinse while you are at it.
Once finished bleeding the caliper, let the oil from the cup fill the system and attach the syringe with a little tube onto the hole of the bleeding cup. You can pull gently again to get the little bubbles out of the system and let it fill up again. Be careful with pushing fluid back in, because you can pop the bladder if you are too generous. Getting all the little bubbles out makes a difference of a couple mm in bite point. We leads me to think, you can best keep the bike still for a day and try to pull the bubbles out again (with the bleedcup + syringe)
It seems that lower temperatures make this behaviour worse. 2.5WT oil seems to makes things a little better, and there is also an 2.5wt oil available with a higher boiling point then regular mineral oil.
Other then that the XT's seem pretty sensitive to pad wear..
I used to have a pair of slx m675, filed a cheap screwdriver to make one with the two points et voila, once I coulc drive the screw my m675 had freestroke adjust.
Fun fact, the only places I've ever seen those screws are shimano brakes and holding the stop name signs in London underground stations.
The AVID stroke adjustment is way better and then SRAM bought AVID, thus inheriting a good free-stroke adjustment that doesn't damage the piston. But SRAM brakes have their own problems. You shouldn't have any issues with SLX brakes unless you start putting in the free-stroke yourself. The newer SLX brakes do have the option but the port is blocked by a plate or something.
The bleed procedure for that Hope caliper requires to work each 4 piston individually to get all the bubbles out when you fill the caliper from empty. You need to ride a few times and then repeat the full bleed,working each piston again and in my case it had air in it. Since the second detailed bleed working each piston it had been flawless.
Tried the same method with a 2 piston SLX brake of a friends bike and it had air in it. He bleed the brake multiple times with a good feel but getting soft really quick. So working each piston works.
Just let the bike upside down,if the brake is all over the place when you touch it,you have air in the system.
I've been thinking that combo for some time now, but haven't found any good report on how well the RX4+ would work with shimano MTB levers...
I was going to test it before posting but I can't find my syringe
Had the front brake of my 2021 Enduro with 223 mm rotor,0 problems since this summer.
I think you can made the same combo with a regular E4 caliper,you need 2 sets of seals for the RX4+ caliper and swap the seals (2 sets cos the RX4+ is 15&16mm pistons while E4 is 16&16 mm,you need 2 sets of 16mm seals of the RX4+ rebuild kit).
Only concern is the pad clearance is not huge,but a 2mm rotor would work no problem.
The feeling is a mix of Hope and Shimano,very sweet,very clear engagement.
I had the front brake in my enduro bike and the rear brake in my dirt jumptest it for a few months with no issues. I would build the same for the rear wheel.
I think most people do not bleed fully the caliper,you need work 1 piston at the time,extending and retracting only 1 piston to get all the air behind the pistons. It could be tricky but it works.
Even if the adjustment screw does wear that spot on the piston, how would that that cause the free-stroke to change continuously (the wandering)? Adjusting it a lot should just shift the overall adjustment range towards more free-stroke as the screw wears a divot into the piston and thus can't push the piston as far.
Just add to the bleed process moving each piston (full extension&retract multiple times) one by one while the others are lock fully retract. I did that to a fluffy front SLX 2 pot brake bleed multiple times only with the standard bleed block and a ton of air came out trapped behind each piston. Since then the brake is totally fine. The rear brake of that bike is fine,no bleed needed since day1,only the front brake was bad.
So you mixed a DOT fluid caliper with a mineral oil lever. Aren't you scared your brake's seals will give up on a steep descent?
Nice theory, but the free stroke screw doesn't contact the piston directly...
There is a plastic piece between piston and the adjustment screw. There might be some variation between different generations on how it is done, but at least all servo wave levers I've dismantled have had this plastic piece for the free stroke screw. Also if you have seals in OK condition, the piston should wear several(like when bitepoint adjust is screwed fully out) millimeters before it could allow air to enter the system. So I find that very unlikely to free stroke screw to have any effect on the wandering bitepoint issue.
You can see the plastic piece holding the piston in and facing the free stroke adjust screw for example from this video: youtu.be/Z43tGeGkYec?t=240
Wandering brake point is most likely related to fluid viscosity, too thin brake lines and/or lazy caliper seals. Thick oil, cold temperatures and long/bent hoses make the problem worse...
Also, SLX and deore levers have same internals as XT and XTR trail, while XTR race is different(no servo wave).
I don´t know how the brakes are bleed in the Shimano factory line,but I do not think they do something like Hope describes is needed for a new caliper cos it is time consuming.
www.hopetech.com/_repository/1/documents/RX4Instructions_Min_EN_FR_DE.pdf
After doing my ShiHope experiment I realize that could be the Shimano wandering bite point problem,just air trapped behind the pistons,it would not come out with a regular bleed. My to sets of experimental brakes do the wandering bite point after a few rides from new in the bike cos from new/empty is hard to get all the air out even doing what Hope manual said. But once I bleed them the second time working each piston both brakes had being flawless in any weather,altitude or even if you put the bike vertical for transportation/uplifts and multiple brake pads changes.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=68aOAQag3x0
www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Z4r7226bk8&list=PLW8YzbPacfHnCVH-rNloTuhufo_T8cx7-&index=11&t=31s
Some people caution this since this might affect maintenance?
I've been eyeing both the 2 and 4 pot version everywhere for months and the cheapest you can get is €180 for the 2 pots.
Some other guy here mentions he paid $164 for a set of 4 pot with rotors, I simply can't believe it
Wandering bite point is just indicative of their "f*ck you, consumer" attitude. They refuse to acknowledge or address it. No idea why people stan so hard for a mediocre brake company.
Plus: the elephant snout is super precise and sensitive. It can sense things you can't sense with your fingertips.
I have no experience with these brakes (nor the MT5). Just mentioned them because they're so common, serve the same purpose as the MT420 and also fit the price bracket.
"The fingers you have used to dial are too fat. To obtain a special dialing wand, please mash the keypad with your palm now."
The shop I used to work at sold a lot of Magura brakes, and the most common issues with the bar clamps were all user error related. The Magura clamps now use a weird system where you totally bottom out one of the clamp bolts (there's an arrow cast into the clamp pointing at one of the bolts so you know which side to do it to), then use the other bolt to adjust the tension. If you try and tighten the bolts up like you would most other two bolt clamps so you have even tension between them, you'll typically break the bar clamp (which is at least replaceable).
To other people who have replied to this thread or have been reading it - I've been using Magura MT5 and MT7 brakes pretty much since they were first released. You really don't need the MT7s. The BAT adjuster screw on them is the only real difference from MT5s to MT7s, and the BAT adjuster cam is useless. It's just a crappy plastic cam, it barely affects the feel of the lever and if you crash/dislocate the lever it damages the profile of the cam and you never get it to work properly again. You do however then get the fun thing where your lever will randomly dislocate if you hit a bump and don't have the lever blade covered with your finger. You're best off using the HC1 or HC3 blades whether you get the MT5 or the MT7, and if you're using them you need to switch the BAT adjuster out for a blanking plug anyway, rendering the one difference from MT5 to MT7 redundant.
They quite often have bad bleeds from the factory - we cut a lever in half and it looks like there a lot of awkward corners/edges in the lever body that can trap air bubbles - but you can do a quick top-up bleed just using an open syringe, some mineral oil and the EBT port on the lever. Just angle your lever so it's parallel to the ground, remove the EBT plug, insert the open syringe and add a little fluid. If you pump/flick the brake lever, you'll find air starts going up into the syringe. Once you think you've got the air out, I generally use my thumb to block the top of the syringe, then pop it out of the EBT port and drain the fluid in the syringe into a bottle. Reinstall the EBT plug (it seals with the two O-rings on there, so you really don't need to go tight on it at all!) and you should be good to go. This also works for freshening the feel of the brakes up every few months/whenever they feel like they happen to lose that firm bite.
Spending some time centralising the pistons makes a huge difference too. Holding back individual brake pads (I generally do it with an alley key/screw driver against the pad backing just above the top of the brake pad material) to make sure that all 4 pistons contact the rotor evenly and at the same time makes a huge difference to how firm the lever feel is, and how consistent it remains. It takes a few minutes to do properly per brake, but is well worth it.
I've used a few different brake pads with them, but the Magura Race compound pads are the ones to go for if you want all-out power. The Performance pads are fairly lacklustre in my experience. I've used pads from other brands like Uber Bike and they wore out insanely fast. I've also found that fitting the individual style MT7 pads makes a big difference in terms of pad durability and cooling. I fitted them to all my MT5 brakes and they made a positive change to them. You get the pad retention pins with new pads from Magura, so even though the MT5s don't come with them you don't need to worry about it (if you're getting official replacement pads).
I do have some earlier brakes with the EBT plug (Louise 08 and Marta 09) but I still prefer to remove the entire reservoir cap. It is easier to see what's going on though obviously you can still get the brake firm even if there is some air in the reservoir. As for the weird corners in the body, do you mean inside the reservoir? The bore itself (where you don't want to trap air) is going to be cylindrical anyway, isn't it? I think the risk of air getting trapped in the reservoir is always going to be present on brakes that are designed to be mounted left and right (so no real single side up). It is a big selling point for OEM and bikeshops (having to carry fewer spares) but I think dedicated left and right masters (so with the reservoir on top, like Trickstuff and Hope still have) are still the best. I do agree with your approach of quickly topping off the brakes, with the small addition that I push the pads all the way back just before I'd close the reservoir or remove the syringe. This will both chase the last few bubbles of air out of the system (more psychological, as ideally they should already be gone) and make sure that you don't overfill the system (especially relevant if your current rotor and/or pads aren't full thickness anymore).
As for the brake lever itself, I thought the HC3 lever would only fit the MT7 master, not the MT5, isn't that correct? I do know you can fit one-piece MT7 pads in MT5 calipers and it makes sense unless you'd want to mix and match pad compounds. As for third party pads, have you tried Trickstuff and Galfer pads too? I'd expect these to be even stronger.
The weird architecture of the lever is primarily in the reservoir area. It's just designed in a weird way - it's hard to describe without showing an image of it, but basically it has a lot of sharp corners and recesses that don't really help things...
Magura say the HC3 blades don't fit the MT5 brakes, but they do/did. There is a tiny bit of free play at the start of the stroke, but if you ride covering your brakes it's not noticeable. I think on the very latest MT5 brakes you may need to mod the very top edge of the lever where the blade spring would usually go, but it's not super hard to do (especially with how soft the Carbotecture material is).
That said, unless you really need the extra flexibility of the independent reach adjustment on the HC3s, the HC1s are in some ways better. The lever feels a little stiffer to me, but also you get quite a lot more power due to how long the blade is in comparison to how stubby the HC3 is. As it is the reduction in leverage from the standard alloy blade to the HC1 is noticeable, so going even shorter isn't necessarily ideal. This website is pretty interesting for checking that kind of thing out: brakes.ddzyne.nl The other thing is simply the cost of the HC3 blades. On my trials bike I like them due to the reach adjustment on them, but I was lucky in that I didn't have to pay anywhere close to RRP for them. They're good, but not THAT good. I've been running the HC1 on my MTB for the past 2-3 years and they've been spot on.
I'm no fan of bite point adjustment either. I can imagine you'd want to adjust the reach (which you can on all brakes) but from there on I don't see why one would want to delay the bite. I've had BAT on Louise 07 and Louise 08, but just dialed them all the way out.
I don't think the reservoir thing is particularly related to them being a flip-flop style lever design. There have been other flip-flop style levers that use accessible reservoirs. I think with Magura, it's simply just to make assembly as quick and easy as possible. Having spoken to people within the company, they're extremely focussed on fine tuning all their production processes (e.g. having a basic pressed in pivot on all the MT-series brakes now), and having it so you can just clip on a reservoir lid and not have to do anything else to it just makes life easier for them. I guess it also lowers the weight which helps for those all important spec sheets too...
I used to use the adjustable bite point feature on my Tech 3s to dial in the feel, but I've come to just accept how it works with the Maguras, and where the bite point is on them. I guess I came to them from over a decade of using different types of rim brake where you can get things feeling exactly how you want, so that might explain why I was pretty fussy at first!
Main issue I'm having with my beloved green (last batch of 400) Louise master is that the master piston (or bore) is sucking air so that's the main reason I need to bleed it more often. But the bleed itself (or pump - and top-off process) is fairly painless. One recommendation I can give you when chasing stubborn air bubbles is to squeeze the lever slowly and release it quickly. If you push the lever, you increase the pressure hence compress the bubbles (making them smaller and easier to hide). So don't apply pressure too quickly. Then when you release the lever quickly, you both reduce the pressure (causing the bubbles to expand) as well as cause an upwards flow. Be patient and allow the bubbles to migrate upwards before you squeeze the lever again. And indeed, tap the brake hoses at this stage. Obviously this only goes for the bubbles that hide in the hose and the piston bore. Once they have arrived at the reservoir, it is already job done in my case as there is nowhere to hide in an open reservoir. In case of the MT brakes indeed, tap the master body too. But from what I've seen, the mistake people make too often is to squeeze too fast and too quickly after having released the lever. The bubbles migrate upwards during the time between release and squeeze. It doesn't make sense to skip that part .
Edit: Willingen was 2011, not 2012 as written before the edit.
Like I say, there's something about the interior of the body that doesn't help with the bleed process. It's quite a lot different to the internals of every other lever I've seen.
But apparently the rears are all sold out - they were there yesterday.
I was not expecting them to continue, yet they have. I am very curious to see what seems to be on the horizon.
This is exactly why i hate my XT's. the wandering bite point is OK while pads are newish but gets noticeable when they wear.
- i get people have issues with SRAM, but thats more or less down to who bleeds them and how long they wait between bleeds - i never had an issue with my RSC's.
its just MORE noticeable at low pad depth.
Why would it be more noticeable when the pads are worn?
In which position should it be when you leave it alone?
come on man, you dont need to be a rocket scientist to work this one out. - why are you defending these brakes so much?
I'd just leave the free-stroke adjustment screw alone as how you first got it from factory. Most people play around with the reach adjustment on the levers only anyway and that's good enough. You can play around with the bleed process to fine tune the bite point. If you want your brake lever assemblies to last more than 3-4 years, don't bother with that free-stroke adjustment screw. The XTR race brake levers don't have that adjustment and it works just fine. SLX M7x00 don't have it and it's fine. My XT M8000 levers after a year still works fine without any bleeds so far. I don't plan on adjusting that screw any time before and after each flush and bleed.
Also, another factor that plays into this wondering bite point can be down on the other end at the calipers. The plastic or ceramic calipers and seals get dirty in no time. You need to push the calipers out as far as you can without popping them out. Then, clean the dirt off the seals and the sides of the calipers.
but being a heavier rider i struggle to get stopping distance to be short
and it seems to come from this: "here SLX/XT/XTR models seem to have a full-power point that you're not going to exceed no matter how hard you pull" as quoted above.
I get to that point in the power stroke that it either isnt enough to slow me (pulling hard as possible)
or they suddenly lock, I can feel the Locking point an can usally stay just back from it but then i run into not enough power. - BUT then comes that moving bite point, Can release the lever but then the bite point isnt in the same place, sometimes will be nearly at the bars but then suddenly back out a bunch.
I usally see shimano riders Locking Their brakes in an attempt to slow down - Any Racer of any motorsport will say this is the slowest way of slowing down lol.
If you brakes are getting dust inside and leaking fluid, that's only going to lead to the bite point moving in, it's not going to wander back out because that would need more fluid magically getting back in.
You should definitely try srams high end stuff (GX, X01, RSC). It just works so much better, can take a beating, never needs maintenance and just keeps on going forever. My five year old x01 cassette has only just worn through the coating, my 18 month old XT cassette is all chewed up and ready for the bin. I used to be Shimano only myself until recently. I still have a full XT groupset with brakes on my hardtail and a full SLX groupset with GX mech on my son’s hardtail. What bike shop do you work in?
The problem with Shimano other than the WW2 manufacturing techniques is that just don’t care about mountain biking anymore. They’re worth 6X what sram is worth. If they wanted to compete they would do. They seem happy to let sram have mtbs while they take road, Walmart / Halfords bikes, e-bikes and fishing. They’re always late to the party with a substandard alternative, they’ve stopped innovating, they won’t do anything about all the issues we’ve been complaining about for the last ten years. Mtb is such a niche industry that they just don’t care.
But yeah a good bike shop ironically I was in there a few months ago after the deore shifter fell apart on my friends bike. They managed to find the missing bolt and lock tight it back in. I think that was the last deore part to fail on his occam.
All the other shimanos I’ve owned have all been a bit crap though.
P.s. I’ve also discovered THE brexit benefit! New hope tech 4 e4 for £156 including post.. with 3 sets of pads included it puts the price of boring black far eastern 4 pots to shame.
Always wanted hopes for the servicability and colourful sexiness. Rude not to at that price!
Not really. Pretty sure all Shimano 4-pots use the same basic pad shape. In fact, the M8020 (XT) brakes can take the same D03X-RX pads that come stock with this one. Maybe the finned pads don't fit this particular caliper correctly, but any non-finned pads that fit in the high-end 4-pots, such as D02S-MX and various TRP and Trickstuff options, will fit.
I'm running the newest style of lever. Check my profile/blog for a writeup.
I think you mean "like a Code R and specifically not a Code RS[C]". Because SRAM's SwingLink is basically the same thing as ServoWave. "R" vs "RS or RSC" has literally the same difference of "longer pull and a more gradual bite ramp up" in the non-SwingLink version.
I want these levers . Non servo wave with longer blades . 4 piston calipers look cool but eventually I end up with one piston not moving as well as the others then the pads engage at strange angles . I don't feel the issue but the pads wear out unevenly. Not a problem if you enjoy tearing apart your calipers and cleaning the pistons in the caliper . Who does that . ?
With large aftermarket rotors these brakes are powerful, simple and reliable.
There is also more pad surface and more caliper volume so they are a bit less sensitive to heat.
I read somewhere that Shimano 4 piston brakes are 10-20% more powerful than their 2 piston equivalents and that seems consistent with my experience.
I had the same caliper with a Saint lever in the front wheel of my 29" Enduro and it works even better hehehe. It uses any E4 Hope brake pad and comes with pretty good bleeding instructions,2 sets of pads(1 blue for road use,other are red),bleed blocks and bleed adapter/tools.It works like a dream with a 223 Galfer rotor.
It feels like a Hope brake but the Shimano lever made it really soft,the pads engage really soft and clear and the power ramps up really nice with the Saint lever. In my dirt jump brake,the non servo wave lever is even more sweet and easy to modulate with a 160mm rotor. All with almost no dead travel to the lever compared to regular Shimano or Sram brakes.
Single piston at 22mm: 380ish mm^2 per piston
4 pots, 17 and 15mm allegedly: 404 mm^2 per side.
That's the difference. The slightly smaller piston diameters change the total SA quite a bit. And my above comment is still correct, albeit I didn't know the diameter difference was so great.
The SLX had a horribly inconsistent bite point even after bleeding them carefully multiple times, the 420s are perfect in comparison.
They also stop well (even down an alpine descent with a fully loaded bike there were no issues) and have cheap replacement parts should something break.
For use on the MTB I still prefer my Formula Curas (better lever and modulation), but that should be expected looking at the big price difference...
I do actually live in the Mountains, small British ones though !
Sadly they can get it too.
My 6210's bitepoint started to wander at low temps around -15C
Just like on my Saint's I changed the oil to Putoline HPX and the problem was gone.
Also since the 6210 never felt as solid as Saint's I ditched the levers for Saint Levers, but keept the 6100 calipers.
Way better brakes now
Its pretty much a certainty that any battery powered device will have the batteries contained within. Mad world
Shows metal pad compatible RT64 rotor.
Pretty funny people are not aware ️
Compared to the older ones I have they have softer edge to the cut-outs, if that makes send. Also brake track has a more polished look.
(formerly MIJ) and different steel and they are most definitely NOT resin pad only.
So, could it be that "wandering bite point" is a bullshit claim, and it's just ServoWave enhancing the feeling of the pads warming up, and perhaps later overheating, and changing the grabbiness, not the actual bite point moving around.
The servowave accelerate the speed at which the piston close the circuit, that may be the reason why brakes without are less prone to it (but it still present).