The Pinkbike Podcast: Episode 114 - The Placebo Effect and Your New Mountain Bike

 I often feel really goofy the first few rides out on a new bike while I get the suspension and cockpit dialled. It endss up making the bike feel worse for me. Except for shifting. Shifting is always better on a new bike.

 Thanks for talking through the 11/12 speed convo! Definitely not trying to beat a dead horse, but having used a 28t chainring with my 10-42t 11 speed cassette for a while, I wonder why more people with 11 speed cassette's don't downsize to a 30 or 28t chainring to accomplish the climbing gear they want. My gripe with the word "range" is only when using it to describe how easy or hard a bike is to climb, because that is not dependent on range, its dependent on climbing ratio. The 12 speed cassettes happen to have a better climbing ratio AND range. Range can and should be used to reference the range of the cassette which is just that, but the climbing ratio is heavily dependent on the chainring size as well. But I do think it is an interesting thing to talk about, since an 11 speed drivetrain can be lighter, cheaper, similar range, but they are not often seen as a good spec, and I understand that. That being said, I am likely using GX 12 speed on my new bike but I would love to see Sram or Shimano put out a high spec 10/11 speed cassette with 500% range. I personally don't need 12 gears, I guess I am not as picky about cadence as some are! Okay I got my rant out, I'll shut up about it now. Thanks boys!

 But, But.. The only thing holding me back from ALL the Strava KOM's on my local trail is that my reach is 10mm too short, hta is .5 deg too steep, and chain stays are 5mm to short! I am a 190lb fine tuned machine! My old bike is the final piece of the puzzle that's been holding me back!!! Once I get this new bike, it will be perfect, geometry has plateaued, I'll never need a new bike again!!!

 I feel like if your new bike isn't significantly and obviously better then you are replacing bikes too often. Or you're doing things like servicing your suspension when you're supposed to instead of just letting the performance slowly deteriorate.

 New bikes are fun because it starts a new round of fiddling. It's very satisfying to be able to fiddle a bike into as-good-as-it-can-be. It kicks off buying new parts to make things just like you like, and who doesn't like new parts of your own choosing?

 As long as it's 5lbs heavier than my old bike, with most of that weight as rotating mass, has geometry totally unsuited to where I live, is less manoeuvrable and less fun, has gears which require finer tuning tolerances than a formula one engine coupled with a cable path so tortured it could be in the next Saw movie, has a new handlebar standard so stiff I have hand ache while still in the car park, has thicker heavier forks for landing those 2 foot drops and of course is 3k more expensive than the last one for a lower spec, then hell yes it's better. Otherwise no.

 Can't believe you could have an entire discussion about cassettes with fewer gears, without bringing up Box's Prime-9! After all, 9 is fine (or so I hear).

Just 9-gears, 11-50t, lighter, and they claim it's more durable and offers better performance than 12-speed cassettes.

I know I'm used to riding on a 12-speed cassette and that spacing, but I honestly don't think I'd really mind haveing 9 speeds that covered nearly the same range. The only challenge is that I haven't found a way to try one out without spending the $$s to buy it, and put it on my bike. But back when PB tried one out in 2019, they seemed to like it.

Next time I need a drivetrain on a budget-build, I'm gonna give it a shot.

 The placebo effect appears to be getting stronger, so if we just wait with new marketing our current bikes can get better.


www.scientificamerican.com/article/placebo-effect-grows-in-u-s-thwarting-development-of-painkillers

 All the PRs and KOMs being set on "trail I've ridden a million times, and I cleaned every section at 50% effort. This bike punches above it's (sic) weight."
Usually the "brand new bike" purchased on PB was only ridden 86 miles according to Strava. But that's a whole other discussion.

 Everyone knows that The New Bike Syndrome is a real deal, shaving seconds, adds air time. Once its dialed of course. I struggled for a month with my new SB150, or lets say with Fox 38 fork. And it was the only time I was not so happy with a new bike. Then I realised the fork had 3 tokens inside, with only one I am getting the new bike syndrome delayed now, but its realy faster and better then my previous SB6

 I get a new bike every 5-6 years - by that time, the technology might actually help make me a better rider, but it's by far the time in saddle and taking care of yourself that will make any bike feel new every year.

 From this episode, not sure if it's just my 12 speed setup but I found the shifting sensitive to the derailleur B gap - at least know to check that first if the gears start slipping. From the last episode, thanks for the workshop tool tips, chaps, have a new chain whip and bleeding kit - agreed the bike stand, bought one in a sale a while back, game changer. One to add to the list of recommendations for SRAM 12 speeds, B Gap tool. Placebo... once I buy something I typically avoid any future reviews!

 I just got a new bike and wondered if the placebo effect was biasing my opinion on the new bike. So I recorded a lap on the trail I ride most on each bike on GoPro (and Strava but one of them failed) and compared the laps side by side. I was surprised to see my opinion actually did match the sections I timed.
I don’t think it’s necessary but it was an interesting experiment.

 Love the flex stay discussions. Would also like to see yall talk to REEB at sea otter about their new steel flex bike. Does steel flex differently from carbon? Are they doing different tunes? Does the flex make a 120 bike feel like 130? What do coil vs air shocks feel like on a flex bike?

Excited for round 2 of this discussion!

 Palmers note about Shimano also having a smaller range 12 speed cassette is right on. It’s 10-45 AND they offer the XTR derailleur in a shorter cage specifically for the smaller cassette. They also now make the XT with the shorter cage but you can’t find them anywhere yet.

 I went from a 2015 Process to a 2021 SB150. The new bike makes me feel more confident, which does help my skill level. Friends that would normally be able to pull away from me, I have an easier time keeping up with, sometimes even having to brake check. This is a huge upgrade though. I can't see replacing you bike every year or two making the average joe fast enough to warrant the need to purchase.

 Will there ever be a DH bike field test?

 @mikelevy, Thank you for answering my question on the Stumpy. I would love to watch any product range comparison/ review where you make all the other parts the same and therefore isolate as much as you can that one element.

Question regarding suspension (front and rear from the two main brands). Where do you see the best value for money in their three tier suspension options? Is the lower tier good enough? Is the middle one the goldilocks of the bunch? or is the top tier just that good as it contains alien technology and feels and performs flawlessly?
Assume correct setup on all and continuous skills improvement.

 Please tell me I'm not the only one who wants Henry to read me a bedtime story in his deep, soft, British accent... ‍♂️

 If you are doing blind tests there are many ways. Here are three common ones. Difference tests are often best done with a triangle test. users taste or try 3 things two of which are the same. As humans are good with differences instead of absolutes the triangle test removes some of the subjectivity humans inject by self report differences if they can tell which is which.


www.taste-institute.com/en/resources/blog/which-taste-validation-method-is-right-for-your-company

 I feel like you missed the most important thing about the Gravity Dropper... I had the remote lever on the handlebars and when you pulled the lever, the pin pulled out and the spring drove the seat up with amazing power. It would stop at the top of it's range OR - if you were not standing up tall enough - when powerful spring drove the seat into whatever body part was between your legs. From the manual "Always make sure nothing is in the way of post as it goes from the DOWN to the UP position. This can cause serious injury"

 Changing from a 26" 2002 Gary Fisher to a 2020 C2 Optic was empirically different, sans placebo.

And new bikes are a dream to ride vs the rigid frame MTB's of the 80's.

 Other than my paycheck, this podcast is the best thing delivered to me by the internet.

What would make it better, on occasion, is the the dissenting opinion of a person who loves hard tails, small-brand suspension, and less-than-12 speed drives trains (or maybe even 2x's). You know the kind of person I'm taking about. They also spend hours per day on MTBR forums, prefer 2.8" tires, and know how to tune a shim stack on a Manitou Mattoc.

Sometimes Mike and Mike have to try to hard to disagree.

 For me, my most recent bike change was about changing my style of riding because my 2019 Instinct BC Alloy was and is still an awesome ride. So awesome in fact, that I was getting my 52 year old body up to speeds and onto jumps I had no business being on. So sold it and got a slower descender, faster climber to balance things out. Enjoy the ride everyone.

 What are your guys' thoughts on native land acknowledgement issues in Squamish/Whistler, or any other native land acknowledgement issues across the continent? Legitimate question, nothing accusatory. Could there be a way for everyone involved to settle on a sufficient compromise?

 Oval chainrings are great. They are just not great for good, experienced riders.

I understand why many very fit and experienced riders don't care for oval chainrings: if you clip in and master a "round" pedal-stroke, you won't like the oval stuff. It will feel strange and somewhat "out of sync". But if you are a struggling with your form, if you find 300 m of climbing rather frightening and if you - like me - are closer to 60 than to 50 and you won't realistically get in any Hulk-like shape any time soon, then an oval chainring is a great addition to your bike.

Not overly expensive, easy to install and REALLY a game-changer on climbs. Like a 13th gear.

 we won't see Henry on Coves then. They had the Handjob, Stiffee, G-Spot, STD, Hooker, Shocker. I'm sure there are more. @henryquinney

 All I know is my new $1000 rear shock makes my bike better. Even if it doesn't I will not let that stop me from singing its praises about how it really "woke the bike up".

 I think the new bike syndrome has a lot to do with motivation. You want to prove to yourself that this new toy is the best and you’re really going to push it those first few months

 Question for the team:

Henry - is the PB WC team running inserts? Why or why not?

Kaz/Levy - you guys run inserts for 'regular' riding? Why or why not?

 More bike parts should be named after sexual anatomy. G spot , clitoris.... mainly because nobody can find them

 Strava says my new bikes faster therefore it must be faster.

 My bike is obviously way better than any other, because if it’s not I’d worry about the second hand value when I’m selling it.

 #RunWhatYaBrung

 Linkglide, (did I get that name right?) will be 10 or 11 speed and built to last with a weight penalty. I want it although I don’t need it and have never seen it.

 I thought the new episode was about the fantasy XC league…

 When I get a new bike I ride it riskier and faster so I don't get buyer's remorse

 I find, once I run a better Flat Peddle the previous 'best peddle' feels unrideable....

 I have a buddy currently building me a custom hardtail... I cannot wait for the placebo effect!

 My gf doesn’t ride but she thinks Squirt lube is the best. Kaz’s favorite trail saw is a Silky Big Boy.

 Levy the way you're pronouncing Marin is making me die a little inside

 By far the biggest example of the placebo effect on mountainbikes is a mixed wheel setup. Mullets are a right fad.

 Favorite tagline from my guys:
You go first, i dont wanna crash…

 For those wondering about the new Orange, it's a LDSP and is now front and centre on their website.

 oval chainrings, cascade links...