The Pinkbike Podcast: Episode 25 - Fall Field Test Preview

 Pinker and the Brian (Park). A sort of tribute to that old cartoon.

 You've sealed Levy's fate, we're going to make him read so many terrible ads.

 I’d rather be called a pinker than a stinker...

 Me too. Hopefully next year. The border closures / 'rona restrictions threw a wrench in the works this season.

 @mikekazimer: what we really want to find out is how fast/faster/slower are the big enduro/super enduro/new freeride/whatever naming bikes are(180-190 SCs) comparing them, on one side with enduro bikes(160-170mm SCs) and, on the other side with full DHs(maybe 190 idk, 200+ DCs);
Full laps for the comparison with the enduros(timed ups and downs); full timed downs for the comparo with the DHs.

I, for one, believe a 180-190mm 29er is basically a DH bike disguising as a SC but, if it pedals 95% as an enduro bike..then, voila, the golden goblet has been found and we all can rest easy now, as 99% of us aren't racers and we don't nees that extra 5% on the climbs. We just need a big DH bike that we can pedal back up the hill or pedal towards that high alpin trail that's 12 miles long with 1500+ ft of descending.

 Yes, we need this

 @eugenux: there's a great comparison on Vital between SC and DC forks

 @jaydawg69: I'll check, thx.
I don't have any questions regarding the diff in stiffness, I know that DC is stiffer than SC.

What I really want to know is the actual diff in speed and capability in hard-core terrain btw enduro(160-170mm), enduro-FR-whatever(180-190mm) and DH.
I think it is easier to have a 130-140mm(with something like a 150mm fork) trail bike and something big like a 180-190mm...which you can use in the occasional enduro race as well as on epic alpine tours or park laps instead of compromising on either capability(enduro) or usability(DH). If you just want to ride and you're not a racer, either DH or enduro, which will require specific tool(bike), this trail+new FR seems like a good one.

 Have always wondered this as well - Seems like Squamish / B-Ham are places where people know whats up and would be snapping pics.

 Did a shuttle lap with the SRAM guys when they were testing AXS Reverb's, they told us not to take pics and don't ask any questions. Kind of dicks about it

 @mtbgreg80302: ah yes testing the dropper post on the downhills only

 @mtbgreg80302: the industry too cool bro thing needs to stop. Its what Brian was talking about in the bike shop episode a while back and the comments ripped him apart about it ironically.

 It's just mountain bikes. It's not like there are paparazzi hiding in the bushes along trails to snap a photo of a new bike. When asked on the trails they probably just say its a new session, and the questioner will be like "oh yeah, it looks like a session"

 @kcy4130: I understand what you mean but I respectfully disagree, kind of. Yeah you could just say that in some cases, but with other things you just cant hide it, like from the old gambler to the newer one that looks completly different, or a new drivetrain with a larger range than before, or a thicker stanctioned fork. Also considering that there some leaked photos taken in lift lines(could be planned) somebody might just take a pic of a bike. I hope I dont seem rude.

 @Apersonwhoenjoysbiking: The "looks like a session" was tongue in cheek. And this is the internet, you can disagree as disrespectfully as you like!

 @kcy4130: I figured mentioning the sesion was a joke. I just also imagined that session was a placeholder name for any other bike.

 I spend a lot of time riding alone, and typically avoid mega group rides with strangers at all costs.

At the end of the day, like @kcy4130 said, it’s just mountain biking. It’s pretty easy to fly under the radar out in the woods.

 I can tell you how others do it. I once put on an event for NFL and a major sports brand you are probably already thinking of right now to reveal product about 6 months ahead of public release. We showed product to 300 folks from the industry by flying them all to a private location, purpose built for the reveal. Literally took peoples phones from them, locked them up, issued NDA's. It was a huge effort but went really well. Big brands take that stuff very seriously.

 Where I live (Front Range CO) dudes would notice a thicker layup on the inside of your chainstay. People are obsessive and we have hella crowded trails. Better trail systems thin out the riders in Bellingham/Squamish though.

 @mtbgreg80302: I can respect them if they are cool and ask nicely - I mean if it is that big a secret, don't shuttle with others. But if they were dicks about it for no reason...
Spy shots all the way.
Not compromising national security here. And deep down, you know they want to generate online buzz.

 @ReformedRoadie: I also rode with SRAM boys when they were developing AXS drivetrain. They were super chill about it. Same thing with another new product that will be coming out shortly. I just teased them about it and they laughed and said, "You see nothing here."

 @fullendurbro: Just going by that post...
I'm just saying they should be chill about it. Ultimately, mountain bikes are just toys...awesome, incredibly fun toys...but just toys.

 @Bakemaster: would explain the horrible reputation Reverbs have on the reliability front.

 @fullendurbro: HELLA crowded, huh? Maybe it would be less crowded if people from CA would stop moving here.

 @davec113: HELLA crowded is right. There should be a tax levied on Californians and Texans.

 Also I hope its not Forbidden to have two high pivot bikes in the enduro category. ;P

 It would be great to compare against the new Meta TR, that's definitely in the Trail-ish category and was a big hit on the Budget Test last year!

 Add the Ransom to that list.

 Yes, we’ll be including comparisons to the Enduro, since it was a standout at last year’s test.

 @TerrapinBen: No one gives cares about the Ransom except for try-hard wanna-be racers on the front range.

 @mikekazimer: Yea should have waited to comment until after listening, you guys covered it in the podcast. Love the podcasts by the way, great to hear more in depth and behind the scenes stuff.

 Oh man that's a good question. I've got some things to say, maybe I'll wait for a future podcast so I don't put my foot in my mouth.

 Speaking for myself. Besides the actual hard numbers and geometry of a bike, the vital and PB reviews are a really big factor. Significantly more so than race results.

 @nskerb: for me it may put something on my list that i haven't thought about before or bring up questions about my riding style that i should probably consider.

 I agree, this would be interesting. But perhaps an article would be a better format for it than a podcast.

 @vaedwards, I still like the term, even though Brian has a personal vendetta against it. It makes a lot of sense to me. "Aggressive trail" just sounds like you're out there pedaling around and shouting at the ground in front of you.

 All mountain is what enduro bikes were before they tried to become downhill bikes.

Full disclosure: I ride all-mountain and have a downhill bike...long wheel bases are boring on regular trails, not scary...

 @mikekazimer:
Agreed, the term "agressive" is full cringe and should die.

It refers to slack HA geometry in MTB, steep HA geometry in BMX, and people behaving like a*sholes in the real world.

 @mikekazimer: you don't shout at the ground during your rides?

 @brianpark: "aggressive trail" sounds like marketing bro speak to me. "all mountain" is too vague and requires an explanation as to where it fits in. Perhaps "short travel enduro" would be better.

 What about Super-D racing? Who remembers that?

 This is an accurate statement.

 If you're tall, the combination of slack actual STAs and proportionally short rear triangles can make the climbing position absolute shit. I am not tall, so it's less of a big deal for me. But I do really appreciate my Raaw's pedaling position.

 @brianpark: I see, that makes sense, I'm 5'8 so thats probably why Ive never really cared that much.

 @brianpark: 5'-8" Here and agree. We are not as affected. But my new Norco Sight with a pretty steep STA is so good.

 For some reason evil refuses to give them test bikes for any length of time. It's a shame

 They are including the Wriply and not the Ripmo... kind of strange, the Ripmo would match up better with the other bikes in the test

 I disagree. I've seen enough shots of the frames to know there is no magic tooling involved. The mill would have to be fairly large to have enough space but once the piece is clamped and zeroed there isn't much to it. CNC production is neither slow nor costly compared to manual machining, the billet stock isn't cheap. But any decent operator could slap out a dozen frames a day one the jig is sorted

 I think 3D printing would happen before machining. Once the materials and tooling are affordable I could see being able to order something and your shop prints is out and cleans it up. I know nothing about the process, i do think it’s super near though. Maybe my kids will be interested in the process. My 7 year old is taking a robotics class and loves it so far.

 I’m a mechanic for a wind farm and fix everything. We have two fire trucks from late 60’s. Parts are rare no impossible to get. Having the capacity to print a new one out would be incredible. As of now I fix them with my mediocre metal working skills. Or adapt new parts into the system with my mediocre engineering skills.

 whats the name of the CNC'd bike? acti 5? active five?

 Stems come in different lengths for exactly this reason. Buy a stem that’s 10mm longer.

 @Saidrick: Yes, I use that as well stack and other means to get a good fit. ETT and just the overall feel is different with these sizes...at least for me.

 already leaked in a shop, maybe a week or two

 @Noeserd: Link?

 @noplacelikeloam: taken down few days ago

 @Noeserd: I saw it. Just want to see it actually released! The optic and sight were released the 15th and 30th(I think) of october last year.

 @nskerb: What was it like?

 @noplacelikeloam: 4 bar high-ish pivot with an idler. Check out the vital tech rumor thread. Lots of pics of it.

 Sadly I don't think it will be, they mention in the podcast that the two remaining bikes have small wheels (and from Lewis's vids we know for sure its 29 and can also be run mullet). Its very possible the forbidden wasn't ready in time. They may only have a couple protos.

 About time, while I love my Nomad, it would be good to see an update.

 @noplacelikeloam: too bad it will still be a 27.5 bike

 @eugenux: confirmed or rumour mill?

 @noplacelikeloam: rumour but, somewhat logic; think about it...tallboy 29er, 5010 27.5, hightower 29er, bronson 27.5, megatower 29er....nomad..probably 27.5.
personally, I would prefer a 29er 170-180 or 180-190..but, I think it will be maximum a 170-180mm 27.5

 @eugenux: makes sense!

 @eugenux: hopefully we will see most future bikes designed for aggressive riding be able to accept different wheel sizes.
29ers make so much sense in the smaller travel categories but for these kind of bikes rider height, style and the type of trails you ride make it much more personal.
At 5'7 I'm on a mullet currently and don't see myself ever riding anything else on a long travel rig.

 @catweasel: at 5.75(5.8 in a good day) I would love to try a well designed mullet as I do get some tire buzz on my pants from my 29er on really steep stuff. But, beside that, the bike feels so much capable, so much faster that I wouldn't know why I'd ever want to return to a 27.5 wheeled bike. For me, it was/is proof that a well designed 29er is the best solution for mtb-ing(from xc to DH); and that's coming from someone who used to race(amateurly) on 27.5 HTs and FSs. A couple of years ago, I fully embraced the 27.5 "solution", after testing some 29ers and deciding that they are slow, cumbersome and unpleasant to ride. Then, in 2018 I tested(and the buy) my first 'new school' xc 29er bike and after it, all my bikes became 29ers. Beside the occasionally tire buzz, I don't see any problem with them and the handling is at least as good as any 27.5(or, I'm so slow I can't tell the difference ahahahaha).

 @eugenux: I should preface this with the fact that I have a short inseam for my height.
The problem for me want tire buzz on the steeps but when trying to squash jumps, drops and those little trail features that want to pop you up in the air when going really fast right as you want to keep your wheels on the ground. It was mostly just irritating but I eventually had a pretty spooky crash of a decent drop that knocked my confidence.
I loved how confident the 29er was rolling into rocky steeps and high speed chatter and in no way did I want to give up that big front wheel.
By chance guerilla gravity (who are local to me) had a Megatrail (their 165mm 27.5) built up as a mullet on one of to their demo rigs in my size. They already build bikes with the same front triangle on both wheel sizes by using different sized spacers on the bottom of the headset, so building a mullet without compromising Geo was already possible for them.
I got the bike on a 3 day demo and despite the fact that I actually had no intention of buying a new bike I was swiping my credit card at the end of the third day.
My thoughts, like you I would assume that 29ers are overall the fastest bikes. Looking at how some DH and Enduro racers (who have the ability to do back to back testing) have moved to mullets this is probably not true for all people.
For me the mullet seems (marginally) slower through high speed straight chatter and (marginally) faster in tighter turns. It's just as confident in steep rocky stuff. For somebody of my stature there is a lot more room to move the bike around in the air.
Lastly (I know people always go on about this in the internet!) It's a lot more fun to ride, the ease with which the rear wheel breaks loose and the stability it still has when it does this is unbelievable. I'm not a particularly talented rider and cornering is probably my week point but I pull pretty sweet drifts around turns almost every ride in this thing. Is that faster? Probably not but it feels so good.
IMO 29ers for all short travel bikes. For long travel, 29ers for the tall, mullets for the short and for those in-between in depends on your trails and your style.
Maybe the mullet will kill the full 27.5 because I really don't notice any down sides to the big front wheel.

 @noplacelikeloam: it could also be one of the new nukeproofs, Mega and Giga(or both).

 Ok. www.pinkbike.com/news/video-salsa-blackthorn-cassidy-2020.html

 @mikekazimer: Yeah, yeah. I watched that video when it came out and teased the "we're going to ride it later" bit.