The Pinkbike Podcast: Episode 53 - Should Climbers Still Have the Right of Way?

 Currently where I ride, everyone does what is appropriate for that section of the trail. Uphill or downhill, if the guy just plodding along sees someone in the flow, they move off the trail so they don’t kill the flow. Whether that flow is a good uphill section or a fun downhill. Feel the vibe of the room and go with it.

I can see how someone on an eBike wouldn’t be able to read the room.

 Right of way for bikes is the the same as skiing/boarding and any other gravity sport: you are responsible for not running into anything below you (barring extremes like idiots standing on landings).

On a multi-use, bidirectional trail you NEVER will know what’s around the next corner with certainty. There could be a child, an older person, a hiker, a horse, a deer, someone who crashed and is hurt, a climber, a natural hazard, etc etc. Ride fast but ride in control and be ready to stop at all times.

Yes, directional, mountain-bike only trails would solve this problem. Unfortunately, space is not unlimited and the general public likes to go hiking and walking in the woods too, and they’re no less entitled to use multi-use trails than bikers are.

 Yes!!!!........ If I am climbing, No if i am going downhill.

 I don't have time to listen to this so sorry if this has been addressed- What about e bike vs normal/regular/acoustic/awesome bike climbing etiquette? For example, if I'm climbing single track and an e bike is behind me wanting to pass, what is the protocol? I'm of the mind that I'm not gonna pull over, especially if it's a difficult section, since it's hard to get going again. I think they should bide their time and wait until the trail widens or at least, politely ask to pass. I've been buzzed and even dethroned on a climb by a person on an e bike without so much as a warning. I get mad when this happens. With the rise of e bikes, this scenario is becoming more and more frequent.

 For better or worse, when on multi-use trails we as bikers need to yield...to everyone...no matter the direction IMO. Its just common courtesy and gives bikers a better name. I've started riding with a Timber Bell on multi-use trails - yea yea, I know - I can't tell you how many hikers thank me for having that bell on. Every single ride someone thanks me for it...and its really nice, they hear you coming and usually get out of your way and let you pass without having to stop.

 If you can't stop safely for a rider who is climbing, you're not going to be able to stop for a hiker, or wildlife.

 Hasn't been mentioned, but Fuck Horses. Even if I am running, aka the most basic, accessible form of locomotion, they demand that I follow their rules whether I am going uphill or downhill. Not to mention they destroy the trails and leave their shit everywhere.

 I don't mind yielding to uphill riders, its the hikers that can take one step left or right and don't that bother me. Or people with headphones in that can't hear anything...

 Ride trails that are too steep for someone to climb up if you don't want to yield during your downhill run.

 If Im climbing and its easy enough to pull over and give way to the downhill rider, I usually do that. However if Im navigating a challenging uphill section, I keep going. Last year I was forced off the trail as I rode up by two a-holes waiting, not even riding, at the top of the downhill portion. They told me I was going the wrong way on a trail that I helped build. Etiquette in sport seems to have gone by the wayside, and the more popular a riding/skiing area, the less of it there is. I guess it could be just a numbers game, but regardless, Ive observed having ridden trails in 20+ states, that there are certain riding areas that have a higher percentage of entitled folks riding.

 Have we still not come to the conclusion that all yielding is situational? I move over for a DHer if I see them having a blast and don't want to ruin their flow, but if I'm grunting up a climb I also just don't want to move over. It's all situational and putting defined ideas into place is silly

 “Should” doesn’t really matter anymore. The safest choice is almost always the choice the other person expects. Climbers having right of way is the established default. Trying to change that would just lead to less predictable behavior from other riders. Had it been established that descending riders have the right of way, that would have been fine too. But it wasn’t...

 I'm surprised so many conflicts occur. I know I'm supposed to yield to hikers and I am willing to do so. However, they almost always step off the trial. Their being nice and recognizing it is easier for them than me. My fellow mountain bikers are (almost always) very polite and considerate. Horseback riders......, well if you can't say something nice....

 Kaz and Sarah are right. The problem with Brian's position on this is that it is inherently more dangerous of a precedent. If riding on an open, two way trail the downhill rider should be riding within their ability to stop if there is a person around a blind corner. It is absolutely NOT safer for the downhill rider to have right-of-way. Also, Brian said that all mountain bikers should yield to other trail users, so if the downhill riders need to expect to yield to a hiker or equestrian, they should also expect to yield to climbing riders. Really we need to encourage our community to ride more responsibly on multi-use bi-directional trails. This is an issue that is on us as a community as we aren't holding the new riders to the existing rules. Ultimately, we should work to build single-direction trails. They are safer, more fun, and better. I do feel like the new part of this is e-bikes climbing... I feel like there is an argument that e-bikes don't have right-of-way anywhere. They are climbing much faster than most people can normally ride. I often find riders climbing the common descent trails because they can.

 Climbers should have right of way by default on multi-use, multi-direction trails because it’s the safest option. Bad things happen when dh riders expect people to get out of their way and they don’t for whatever reason. That said, try to be courteous, I voluntarily pull over for dh riders all the time when I’m just out cruising. No reason to ruin someone’s flow if it can be avoided. The best solution is direction trails so we don’t have to worry about it.

 uphill rider should have right of way. The downhill rider should be looking far ahead for their own safety.

 Always agreed with the original rules, Up hill riders have the right of way. New rules should include that E-bikes yield to everyone.

 I don't think it's reasonable to expect the downhill rider to stop every time, because of the physics involved with stopping momentum from higher speed on a downhill slope. It almost invariably results in at least some brake lock-up, which causes trail erosion, and is vastly less safe for the downhill rider and potentially the uphill rider/hiker, because emergency braking reduces control. I know I've crashed at least once or twice trying to stop for hikers/uphill riders. That said, on multi-use, multi-directional trails, I don't ride 10 tenths in either direction, because I feel I need to leave some margin for error. Those trails often have more blind corners and elevation changes up and down. You just never really know what could be around the next bend or over the next rise. I save my highest effort and speeds for downhill-only, bikes-only trails (basically bike park trails). In my experience on multi-use trails, hikers almost always just step to the side for me before I can stop, which I feel is pretty reasonable, given that it's harder for me to stop than for them. There are times and situations where I will stop, but I always have to wave the hikers through, because they expect me to have right-of-way for some reason. If I'm climbing on a singletrack trail, I yield to downhill riders so as to not interrupt their flow. I don't mind taking a break for a few seconds to let someone pass. And that saves everyone time: The downhill rider, going faster, passes by quickly, whereas the if the downhill rider stops, the time spent waiting on the climber is significantly longer. I think the old IMBA-style right-of-way etiquette probably worked when mountain biking was a relatively new sport, and hikers thought all of the trails were theirs primarily, and we needed to sort of bow to them so as to not lose access to trails. These days, I think most of the trail building is being done for and by mountain bikers, and (controversially, I know) the trails are tending to be wider and more open and flowing, with better sight lines. This, combined with the increased speeds that mountain bikers can easily achieve (especially on those wider, more open trails), has changed the formula for that etiquette.

 Rules like right of way make things more predictable, but only to the extent that they are followed, and this one has never been even close to universal -- so how effective is it really? How many of us have been at a 4-way stop sign and still had to make eye contact and wave to one or more drivers to get everyone into an order?

The skill that riders would really benefit from is getting out of their own heads and being willing to communicate. Saying hey, how are y'all or good morning when you're far enough back that whatever other trail user has time to hear you, see you, think, and respond. Instead of shouting 'on your left' and blazing by full of the sense that you have some right of way, you can say 'may I pass you?' or if the section is tricky or tight, 'can I pass when you're ready?'

 If you're descending and aren't capable of stopping safely you're going too fast for your skill level

 I think Climbers by default should have the right of way just for the simple fact that it's harder to get going again going up than down. That being said this only applies on trails where climbing is allowed also it should be up to the climber if they want to give the right of way to the descender, I know personally if I'm ripping down I'd like to not stop and that's why when climbing I'll move over for the descenders that's my take

 Downhill should yield to the uphill rider on a bi-direction trail.

My thoughts:

Climbing is a grind, finding the right cadence and working in a zone is an art and an achievement alone. Having to stop screws that up.

It’s not really feasible to see or hear a downhill rider coming towards you, especially when you are working a climb and there are corners

And my final point, what kind of bi-directional trail is really a DH epic where it would be impossible to stop or yield for uphill traffic?

Directional trails are the best. Clears that problem up completely. Typically where I ride the bi-directional trails are used for transportation from one area to another.

 Total time on trail is longer for the climber than the downhiller. So the Climber would in theory come into contact with more riders causing them to stop and yield more often. I still think that the climber should yield in most situations as they said on the podcast for safety reasons.

 Easier for a uphill rider to pause, move over, or avoid. If encounter happens at a tech section, I will always try to yield to a rider trying to clean a section. Buy a bell everyone. It is the easiest solution to so many problems

 If I'm climbing I'm getting out of the way. Don't fuck up someone's downhill flow.

 Yes. No reason to change the longstanding etiquette rules just to suit the higher speeds contemporary bikes allow noobs to travel.

 Pick a direction and be a dick about it

 My pet peeve is the rider who sees that you've already stopped and moved aside for them, but then they stop and insist that you ride through. WTF is the point of BOTH of us stopping?? F'ing passive-aggressive control bullsh^%.

 Ebikes should have designated trails and stay off of those trails dominated by regular bikes and pedestrians. They're motorized and that keeps it simple. Directional trails are good for safety in certain situations. The uphill rider always gets right if way because that's how it is everywhere the world over and to change it would be like moving the drivers seat to the RR side of the car for a lot of people. The downhill rider should expect oncoming traffic while riding open trails and never be "surprised".

 At least for me, not exactly, I normally will get out of the way when the climb is not too difficult during the section. I mean it is always a good excuse to take a break right? On the other hand, it kind of suck when you are going downhill and have to stop all of the sudden, I have seen many many crashes for downhillers trying to get out of the way of climbers, because when you are going that fast it is also difficult to spot an opening and pullover especially when the trail is tight in some of the sections.

 Directional trails. Solving this problem since forever.

 On multi use trails I will always try to yield to hikers and runners, no reason why mountain bikers should be viewed as the alpha trail users. If I'm climbing I don't mind getting off the trail for a descending rider and I'll always make sure I yield to those climbing. I make sure my kids do the same. I say hello to everyone else out on the trail. Treating other trail users with respect adds to an already enjoyable experience. If I need anger and aggravation then I'll go for a road ride.

 Having a bell sure seems to help a lot with these situations. I personally yield to people hitting the downhill on multi-use trails because I don't want to ruin their flow and taking a short break doesn't bother me. The bell allows people down trail to make up their mind on if they want to move off trail or continue uphill and expect me to yield (which I should do). Adjusting my expectations for a leisure activity keeps me from acting like a jerk to people who are also just trying to get outside and workout.

I do agree e-MTBs flying past people on uphills with no signal or communication needs stop and some etiquette regarding that would be good. That makes my blood boil

 If I'm climbing then I expect downhill riders to yield to me. If I'm descending I expect uphill riders to yield to me so they don't kill my flow

Seriously though. It depends on the trail and the rider I'm dealing with. Default is to yield to the uphill rider ( especially if they weigh 100lbs, are head to toe in spandex, and look like they're going for that KOM).

As a gravity rider, I fully appreciate flow and earned turns so if I'm lumbering up the trail on my heavy-ass enduro bike and I see a rider ripping down I move the F out of the way.
Conversely, I expect the glorified roadie picking their way down every chicken line to stop and let me lumber on by up the hill.

 Q for the Pinkbike Podcast crew: Does right of way change when there is a group of 20+ riders (school bike team/club/lesson)? For example, while riding down I came across a school race team of 30+ students climbing the trail, all spaced bout 20 seconds apart...Ended up pulling over and waiting for the entire group to pass by, took over 5 minutes. Or even when the roles are switched and I am climbing- having those 30+ students crash/stop to yield to me while I am riding uphill but almost crashing into me. The constant heart palpitation of the repeated near misses is scary also. Do these group leaders have any obligation to educate their riders on etiquette? I feel like that lesson is lost much of the time.

 When you are out riding, 99 % of the time you are on a trail being used by others so one should always be aware of other users. Meaning whether you are climbing or descending you should be thinking of others and when you come across someone else you take care to make sure that passing is done in a safe manner regardless of right of way. Meaning Descenders should slow and climbers should give way. One should not just blindly embrace right of way and not give way, yield or slow decent.

In short: Coming across another user is going to mean taking some action and altering how you are riding in that moment.

 FIRST QUESTION: in which scenario are riders more likely to get injured:
1) A rider going downhill on a narrow singletrack clips or runs into a stopped rider?
OR
2) A rider going uphill on a narrow singletrack clips or runs into a stopped rider?

SECOND QUESTION: If downhill riders get the right of way to pass, what speed is too fast to pass safely and how can we be sure each rider (some who maybe new) is able to appropriately judge that speed?

Passing at speed on narrow singletrack is inherently dangerous whether the trail is steep or flat. It is ALWAYS safer for uphill riders to pass because their momentum is naturally limited to safer passing speeds.


I live in an area with a lot of out of town riders and more and more newbs. I don’t want to now need to prepare to hurl myself out of the way on narrow singletrack every time a rider is descending just because there is a chance the next rider down could be some gaper that thinks it’s safe to pass going +15mph without his feet on the pedals riding over-inflated plus tires that are bouncing off baby heads on a 1 foot wide trail

 We have hills and lots of ups and downs. If I'm climbing a known fun DH section, I'll get out of the way for DH riders. But if it I'm climbing a random stretch of trail I wont budge for those going DH. Modern MTB brakes are phenomenal. Learn to use them effectively.

 Most bikers are polite & yield whether going up or down. I think trail conditions should dictate who yields. Sometimes re-establishing a technical downhill is more difficult than climbing but no matter what, politeness & etiquette should come first.The most conflict I have encountered is with walkers/hikers, runners & dogs. I’ve had the biped crowd refuse to move, purposefully walk 2 or 3 abreast even on double & triple track & dogs...No matter what your outdoor discipline, if you have no control over your dog, you should not have it out on the trail.

 Uphill loses the right of way to me if they're on an ebike.

 I think that 9 times out of ten a two way trail either sucks in one direction or both due to the compromises it has to make. I can think of maybe 4 good two way trails off the top of my head. For hat reason I am a proponent of designated climbing and descending trails to avoid this mess in the first place.

 I think Los Angeles has the worse trails in the world. Not because of the trail but because of the trail users. Playing loud music is socially acceptable, hikers will wear headphones making giving them a heads up impossible, lots of under prepared users, and nobody does trail work.

 So happy to live in an area where that if I see another rider coming towards me I probably know them. My default is to stop to exchange pleasantries and send my regards to the missus.

 Never had an issue with this on the trail, especially since a lot of the trails ride are directional.
Personally when I'm going up a trail I always get out of the way if I hear someone coming. It's just me but I really don't care about the climb up, I only go up so I can go back down. I understand this isn't the case for everyone, so i make sure to yield when I'm going down if needed.
As for e-bikes, (I don't have one and likely never will) I think they should just be treated like everyone else, if they're polite, courteous and follow the rules then I don't care if they have an electric motor helping them or not.

 So, a-holes can't stop or control themselves, don't follow the rules anyways, and advocacy is hard, f it, let's rip up the rules.

 @brianpark @mikekazimer after having the opportunity to listen to the entire podcast, you mentioned the area I live. And it possibly sounds like neither of you have ridden the other (and arguably much better) trails in my zone. I had already stated my stance about DH should have the right of way, situationally dependent, AND it being less damaging to the trails (I can provide much evidence of this). Yes, we as MTBers should yield to other trial users. However, if you have ridden the other trails in my zone, you would know the forest is dense enough (temperate old growth rainforest) to mute the sound of the downhill rider, as well as the prevalence of blind corners necessitating the need to give hoots/hollers or having a bell to announce your presence. I am still VERY unclear as to why riders have such a hard time with this concept. If you don’t like bells, then give a hoot, it isn’t that hard. Other trail users are ALWAYS grateful for it, and my interactions with them are almost always positive. I can’t count how many times I have been told “I can’t be bothered with hooting/hollering before every blind corner on this trail,” when I have had close calls with other riders, as it happens FAR too frequently. This is typically a response I get from shuttlers and the overbearing prevalence of shuttles on the the trails that I speak of are the primary culprits. It isn’t hard to keep your head up every now and then on the way up, as most of the trails are not what I would consider technical. Physically demanding, most definitely. If I hear/see you coming down, I will get out of your way. Keep that flow going and have fun! If I don’t, and you come skidding up to me with a near miss, chances are I will be a bit annoyed. I like climbing and descending the same trail as it’s more of a workout, and faster than the logging road climb. AND I get to enjoy the old growth forest for what it is. So all things being equal in this scenario, DH should have the right of way, AS LONG AS YOU WORKED for it (situationally dependent, you see?). If you are banging out shuttle laps on a multi-use, directionally non designated trail at full speed, chances are you are part of the problem. Simply put. Earn your turns, that is why you bought a trail/all mountain/enduro bike! Personally when I only have time to climb the trail, to then turn around and descend it. I am very much so wanting uninterrupted flow of the DH.

Communication is KEY here folks. Hence giving hoots/hollers before blind corners (or a bell ring), then slowing down significantly, smiling and acknowledging if/when encountering another user. That is and should always be a courtesy to others. Rarely do I get out and ride these trails on the weekends due to their popularity.
Ultimately I do agree, that it is VERY situationally dependent. Yes, having more directional trails would alleviate the issue. But that isn’t an option a lot of the time. I would urge the hosts of PB to come to my zone and ride with me on a busy weekend then we shall chat more about the topic. In the grand scheme of it all = Just be nice and courteous to other users, and don’t cause unnecessary trail work for those of us that are the primary care takers of trails in areas that do not have a prevalence of resident MTBers, it helps keep the relationships with the other users copacetic.

 This episode was so dumb and frustrating I bailed halfway in.

 Here are my two cents, living in a remote, heavily forested area with limited bike trails (over 75% of the trails in the area I live are in designated wilderness). The trails we MTBers have access to here are STEEP and FAST. So, to be taken with a grain of salt I suppose...
Guideline #1: Downhill travelers should have either a bell or be giving hoots/hollers when approaching blind corners. (NO EXCEPTIONS on multiuse trails). #2, Uphill travelers should yield, as the amount of damage done to the tread of the trail, and the erosion that it causes for the downhill traveler to come to a quick stop is insurmountable in comparison to the uphill traveler that can quite easily take a step to the side to allow passage.
Being as that I am one of the only full time resident MTBers here, I catch a LOT of flack from other locals on how MTBers, especially shuttlers, act on the trails. To that, I am one of the few and proud trail volunteers that is constantly maintaining the trails accessible by bike, so I see the damage done when DH travel has to yield.
Since I have moved here and have adopted the hoot/holler on the down hill (not a fan of bells), a vast majority of trail users have acknowledged the hoots and kindly stepped off the trail to allow passage and thanked me for the warning and I of course slow down and communicate with them.
And since I have weighed in, bring on the disagreements...

 I just scream " RIIIIDEEERR... RIIIDDEERRR" going down the hill and most people hear me coming and give me a little chuckle as I pass.

 @mikekazimer i am with you on the climbers get priority, also feel that the decision could be left to the climber. On plenty of occasions I have pulled to the side to waive the DH rider through, but there are some climbs I just don’t want to stop on.

Appreciate this podcast, would be awesome to see you guys go further into etiquette and the fragility of our sport for all the new riders.
Sent a call out to the media biguns to do so, sent directly to Levy too, but have a read and would love for you guys to put out a little more of a history lesson for new riders.

dirtmurderr.weebly.com/straitjacket-talk-no-bull/2021-could-be-the-best-year-and-an-important-year-for-the-mountain-biking-community-plus-a-call-out-to-mtb-media-bigs

Great talk on the podcast today

 Let's get the PC stuff out of the way:
I can see both sides have some level of correctness so you're both right. You should figure it your own hashtag, get done FB groups started to further your case, and get yourselves some thought provoking and funny memes.
I also can see that both sides have a certain amount of incorrectness so you're both wrong. Each dude needs a hashtag to accuse and attack the other side, FB groups to spread the misinformation, and photoshopped memes with celebrities and politicians making hateful statements about the other side.

And finally...How dare you try to present both sides intelligently and logically while trying to educate riders PinkBike?!? I don't have to read Do Not Enter/One Way/Yield to Climbers/Mandatory Gap signs! Trails aren't One way or Bi-directional. Trails are MY-Directional! I can also cut across the trails, make my own path, yell at hikers, tailgate little kids and parents that are too slow, and anything else I want. And I know this because I read and educate myself from all the FB groups I'm a member of... As Abraham Lincoln said, "If it's on FB it's true!".

 One thing that wasn’t brought up in the POD was the other rule that could apply to this. Most centres have the rule to ride in control at all times. If you are riding downhill fast enough to not be able to stop for trail debris or other riders than maybe that shouldn’t be considered under control for a bidirectional trail?

 “They’re working harder than you so be nice”. Okay next time everyone is rioting and burning city’s down make sure you tell them to be nice to the business they destroy since the majority of the working class is obviously working harder than them.

 The people who don’t have to ride by directional trails don’t understand. When I get my descent I’m going for it. Kazimer doesn’t seem to understand. There are many directional trails that are pretty gnarly in the pisgah and people do climb.I never thought I would agree with Brian. When I get to a good downhill I’m sending it. The argument for climbers sounds so dumb, Ecspecially from Two people who get tons of dedicated downhill only trails.

 @mikelevy @mikekazimer @brianpark @sarahmoore @jamessmurthwaite Sorry for tagging you all but I think this is going to be buried in the flame war.

Question for next podcast: if you were to buy land for your own trails, just for you and whoever you deem worthy, what would be the minimum vertical and minimum acreage to make it worth your time? Subquestion, would that answer change if you were to do an airbnb type situation like a la Pilot Cove?

 Would be quite happy to hear a podcast about footwear, as it seems this is still in a "wild west" period. 5.10 was the leader but with the acquisition from Adidas and their new Terrex line, the relationship riders had with 5.10 has faded. Could it be explained why open laces are still "ok" on a freeride shoe when most flat pedals have spikes that catch on them or just moving through the woods tends to snare laces as it is? A lace cover is still a valid piece on a freeride shoe. The 5.10 Raven and Karvers were quite good shoes and Shimano continues to put out DH shoes with lace covers, as Sarah pointed out.
The most interesting piece is why there isn't an option to have a half shank or full shank flat pedal shoe. Flexion of the heel past the pedal platform upon landing is the cause for most heel/ankle injuries. Having at least a half shank on the forefoot of the shoe could limit this movement as well as improve pedaling efficiency.
It would be nice to get a review or shoot out between the Vaude Moab Tech All Mountain, RC's, 5.10's, Giro, Shimano's, and maybe even the Unparallel West Ridge?
Levy, no SPD sandals, sorry bud I can't support you on that
Stoked for these podcasts, can't wait for the next one!

 Grabbing popcorn...

 Interesting conversation. Never really thought about it to any great depth till listening to this. I will say this. Everyone has made good points. I hate having to stop on climb as much as anyone else. Sometimes you just can't get going again. I think you should yield to the downhill rider. Fast downhill is more dangerous if you have to stop abruptly. In the prairies all trails are bi-directional. Some single track can have enough turns and the foliage and undergrowth can be thick enough that even with eyes up you can't always see that far ahead on the trail. Here is case for quality noisy hubs...the uphill rider cab definitely hear the downhill rider first. I also think about it like anyone travelling by any method should consider in North America. Keep to the right! Even in tighter areas and coming upon each other quickly if everyone would just do their best to keep as far right as possible it will limit or mitigate the potential for a crash. I yield in all directions if needed, certainly nice if nobody has to yield. Thinking about it in terms of safety and who can stop faster more easily....it's definitely the uphill rider. Hikers definitely need to step aside and if you hit wildlife....oh well that can happen on dedicated downhill tracks just as easily...they're usually pretty quick about moving.

 McKenzie River Trail was just dissed as the most frustrating trail in the world and the only good thing about it is the hotsprings?!?! IF you're taking a DH or enduro bike and you're all padded up - I agree it would be disappointing, but top to bottom on a trail bike - that trail is epic and rips (avoid weekends in the summer due to hikers). No comment from Sarah was surprising - but maybe she's never ridden it? I knew something would be missing on this podcast without Mike Levy - but on this issue specifically would love to hear his input on the MRT if he's ever ridden it.

 What I do... move outta the way for the guy coming downhill. Because that's my preference. Say hello on the way down, and if they want to move outta the way, I let them, but otherwise, I'm happy to move over. I run into (meet) a lot of hikers on some trails and while they have the right of way, I've noticed that most prefer to hear me ASAP (Hello!) and then would rather just move outa the way so I'm soon gone and they can enjoy the rest of their walk (that's my impression, I haven't asked them...). My favorite experience was one a good downhill section where I saw a group of high school students on a guided hike a few curves down the hill. After I was already aware they were below, one of the girls full out screamed. I'm assuming it was to let me know of their presence. Threw me for a little bit of a mental loop, lol (is everything o.k.?).

 Downhill should have the right away, 90% of riding is climbing, screwing someone's 10% so you don't have to pause on your 90% is stupid. You ride for 2 hours and you have to yield for the 12 minutes you were actually having the most fun so someone can climb up the trail makes no sense.

 Whatever your opinion on the topic: Brian & James win on pure debate points

 Some of our exposed trails in Sedona (hangover, hiline, hogs ) have no priority, even over hikers, it's whoever is in the better spot to pull over. It is written down by forest service

 Everything in my area is 2-direction. The only way to ride fast is to hand over cash to the bike parks. I can tell you I would MUCH rather stop when climbing than stop when descending. I might spend 50-70 minutes climbing, but I only get to descend for 15 minutes. I hate it when those few special minutes that I worked so hard for get taken from me.

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flag BlueClaw (0 mins ago)

The trails I ride are densely covered with brush and lots of blind corners and directional trails are almost as rare mtb trails in MD. I also ride pisgah and sc low country trails and on the east coast these trails have limited view as well. It’s much safer for the climber let downhill rider have right of way. On rowdy trails you can easily hear the suspension pumping and tires pounding! It’s time to change the rule, here’s why- E Bikes! This is gonna make it impossible for the downhill rider to yield to a fast climbing E biker. Please set up a poll and let’s get this fixed now because more e bikes will be blasting uphill with ease, make em yield

 I think where I live we do not have any rules on priority on trails. Although my people love rules!

We do not really have any mtb specific trails or directional trails. Not taking into account bikeparks with lifts.

It all just works out. People use common sense for a specific scenario. Of cource there is conflict every now and then especially between people walking dogs and descenders. But most of the time it is not a problem. More than 50% of the time whoever has the most momentum will have the right of way. But it is really just using reason case by case.

 Every rider I know lives for the downhill portion of the ride. Why break the flow of a good downhill section for a climber who is already almost stopped? Plus the climber has way more time to hear and see someone coming.

 All these multi use 2 ways trails sound pretty miserable regardless. Seems more straightforward in the uk.

 it should group size!!! The leader of each group shouts the number of people in their group. Lower number GTFO. Tie's go to a rock/paper/scissors war.

 WORST TRAILS SHOWCASE? The Front Range Colorado/Metro Denver multi-use trails. $hit show

 Give way to those with the most kinematic energy... its physics.

dont be a d!ck about it (obviously) but yeah.. it just makes sense. doing 5km/h up a trail as opposed to 30+ on the way down.. what takes the least amount of energy to come to a halt and move out of the way.

I move over for descenders.. they are doing the fun bit.. the climb sucks but is part of the fitness in our sport (earn your turns).

just like if someone is coming through faster (either climbing or descending), where you can, move over for them where safe enough to do so... dont be a d!ck and slow them down. for the whole trail.

 You should do a podcast on gearboxes and when the hell they will become more mainstream on bikes.

 Climbers, descenders blah blah.... can't we just all agree we hate ebikes

 When climbing I've always moved to the side ... it's a courtesy to let them through. It's same when driving–I'll pull aside then too to let faster cars go by.

 Why is this even being debated, it's shitty when your killing it uphill literally working against gravity and people going down hill think they got the right away????????????.
It can be hard to start pedaling again and can disrupt your cadence. Literally physics should dominate this, and if you are riding uphill on a two way trail there shouldn't be any reason why the downhill person can't stop unless they are an total a*shole-you should be checking your braking away. The f*cking worst is dealing with an entitled down hiller because they wanna look cool going down some shitty line and I gotta stop.
I can't even believe this is a debate I've never ridden on a trail that does not follow up hill right away. I grew up in a ski/bike town and this was never an issue.

 Whoever doesn't have sleeves on his shirt always gets right of way, if you got no shirt you should never pull over. haha. Suns out Guns out.

 So it’s okay for them to descend a climbing trail when know ones around i.e. breaking trail rules but when someone does something they don’t like they say it’s wrong.

 Or you can just play chicken

 yes pinkbike do more controversial topics which get the community heated, it makes for the best comment sections lmao

 The sport/bikes have changed so dramatically since the 80s that the old "uphill always has right-of-way" mindset just makes no sense in any pragmatic way.

 It's shocking how proudly bigoted many PB commenters are towards e-bike riders. So someone else is getting some assist up the hill. Does that affect you? Is your ego so fragile that someone going faster up the hill really hurts you that much?

 All things being equal and safe DH should have the right of way. It’s harder for DH to regain speed they achieved.

 Everyone saying no means except when they are the climber.

 I just want everyone to get out of way. Lol

 Move over grandpa! I’m bombing this b*tch!

 This pod brings up the two rules of my life 1) Follows Newton’s Third law 2) Don’t be a dick

 Climbers should yield to descenders. Makes sense IMO.

 Wow, Brian sounds like the annoying know-it-all guy that you can't debate with, hopefully he's not like that in real life.

 Clearly the guy going down hill should have the right of way. Mike, you are wrong, you know it but you're stubborn as hell.

 Brian forcing his opinion on everyone again...

 Why not just stick to a designated uphill or downhill trail?

 Yes

 Has James been calling people pinkers?

 I just back pedal my hydra hub and the hikers hear me for miles

 Whatever the direction, just be nice and greet the person you encounter

 Nice Guys Finish Last - Green Day

 uhh yea?

 #ridekanuga

 Uphill should move over

 Brian is 100% correct for once.