The Pinkbike Podcast: Episode 63 - Our Best (And Worst) Bike Buying Advice

 As a male going into bike shops I often feel the same way. A lot of shops have a very 'clicky bro' culture that's an immediate turn off

 @artistformlyknowasdan: yeah I’ve heard that from a lot of guys as well, there’s definitely an “in group/out group” mentality that everyone is subjected to to some degree

 I am a guy and I feel like I am asking a massive favour from most bike shops when I really just want to give them money

 Bike Shop Guy™ is the worst. And I say that as a former bike shop guy. It really hasn't gotten any better in the 20 years since I started working in shops.

We talked about how shop culture needs to evolve in a previous episode: www.pinkbike.com/news/the-pinkbike-podcast-episode-12-whats-the-future-of-bike-shops.html

 @skiandmtbdirtbag: nothing like getting snarked at for the privilege of ordering me something on the internet I could order myself to my house.

 @artistformlyknowasdan: SO I've definitely seen the bro culture on display at many stores, but I think its even a bigger problem then that. This is kind of related to my athlete pay comments now that I think about it, but it all goes back to there being little money all around in cycling. Many people in bike shops have little education, no office experience, and simply know how to wrench not do customer service. This leads to many awkward conversations with customers, then when you do throw the shops with shitty bro culture it gets neigh unbearable.

In short, bike shops could do with more professionalism which covers many many things(which likely will never happen). As much as the bike industry likes to joke about dentists and their expensive rigs, most shop rats don't have the professionalism to cut it as a dental office receptionist for more than 1-2 weeks without getting canned.

 @pbfan08: I did work in bike shops for 10+ yrs. frankly in my opinion is was not time well spent between the bro culture and terrible pay. To bad since I legit love this sport more than most things in life.

 I was once trying to buy a leggy trail bike and the "salesman" got it into his head that what I really wanted was an XC race bike and all the necessary clothing to take it racing. And then their "mechanic" tried to kill me twice so nuts to bike shops.

 @artistformlyknowasdan: I don’t know if it’s necessarily the cliquey bro culture, but dudes at bike shops are always trying to explain things to me as if I’ve never thrown a leg over a mountain bike before. It used to bug me — hey, quit telling me things I already know. It can come off as patronizing. But then, they are just trying to be professional and inform the customer. They don’t know I know. Now I just go for the ride and let them talk. All good.

 @artistformlyknowasdan: And that’s not to say I haven’t experienced the cliquey bro culture. I have. It remember my old shop changed ownership, and the new guy made me feel like the outsider, even though I’d been shopping there for a few years.

But if a shop is trying to be knowledgeable and professional, I don’t mind, even if they telling you stuff you already know can feel like they’re talking down at you.

 Yeah- I've definitely felt some bro-verdose in bike shops. I will say that shops when I lived in cities vs. shops living in bike towns are different things. In smaller communities a shop can also serve as a hub for the community. Very grateful for my local shop here and what they do for the community beyond just pushing glossy carbon to the docs and semi-homeless bike bums.

 @TheR: Yes! Just because I ask for help adjusting the sag on my shock doesn't mean I need to be given a 1st grade level lecture about how shocks work.

 @artistformlyknowasdan: It's always fun when you see those dudes for the first time on the trails and you're faster tho. ahahaha

I think if you just shoot straight and tell people what you're looking for, then you should be O.K. Bike shops have to deal w/ a lot of interesting people. I've literally seen someone come in to try to upgrade their shock on a "sport" mountain bike ~15 years old. Homeboy just needed a new bike, but I didn't have the heart to tell him.

 @artistformlyknowasdan: The clickiest bro culture I've ran into is a small brewery in Greater Vancouver area that sold ... IPA. lol. I bought a 6 pack and returned the remaining 5 cans as it was undrinkable. But the offence this caused!

 @TheR: Especially when I'd been riding a mountain bike 15yrs before they were even born. But concur, they don't know that and find it more difficult to pick off someone's age under a mask.

 I tend to do most simple stuff on my own anyways but sounds like you might need to find a better shop sadly if one is available. I have had really good mechanics work on my back and not so good ones. I now have my people I go to for bigger things and really trust the work they do.

 My build:
* Shop online for 18 months
* Watch everything I was thinking about ordering sell out
* Get money lined up
* Start buying parts - none the exact size I was hoping for and not trying any
* End up with medium 27.5 frame (I should ride a large but was sold out) and 29 fork
* Develop analysis paralysis when it comes to obtaining wheels and brakes
* Consider selling everything I have obtained and waiting until the Vitus Mythique comes in stock
* Finally get all parts except 180mm brake adapter that I didn't know I needed
* Wait three more weeks and finally finish
* Hope that I can figure out how to set up my first air suspension
* Wonder why my tubeless wheels keep going flat (keep adding sealant)
* Ding rim (even though I am running tire inserts)
* Mysteriously lose all spoke tension
* Get lots of compliments on $1,800 build that people think is a $3,000 bike

 @vapidoscar: Basically sounds like my life right now. Out of curiosity what's the spec that you got on your bike?

 @DaFreerider44: Not sure exactly what you mean. So here is way to much info.

It is a Titus El Viajero Gravity Trail 130mm 4-bar rear with 140mm in front (could be 160mm with a 27.5 fork). 65 degree HA and 73 degree SA. Only like 430 reach. 27.5 wheels with Vittoria Gomas and cheap inserts. Suntour Auron/Duair suspension. 11-42 Advent 8 speed drive train with Shimano Alivio cranks with SRAM 34T 1x chain ring. Tektro Draco brakes on 180mm SLX centerlock discs. That is the main features. Every single thing on this bike is better than what I came from.

I justified the short reach because my local (like out the front door) trails are super tight and twisty. I didn't know how tight until I rode with 780 bars and smashed my hands up on both sides and got knocked off the bike a couple times. This did not happen with my 710mm bars on my single speed or entry level bike. The seat angle is not ideal, have thought about a shock with a lockout to keep me more upright when climbing but that isn't practical in Ohio with no sustained climbs. I run a ton of pressure and compression damping anyway because I am not used to rear suspension but it is nice to know it is there.

I had a $3,000 budget, including things like tools and better helmet and whatnot but ended up getting the frame on a Facebook special from Planet X for $400 delivered and decided to stay with value/sale/NOS. Most of my purchases were pre-COVID so there were some serious deals to be had.

I have a couple little upgrade/replacement items like grips and cassette coming up but now shifting my focus to updating my single speed because I wore out the grips and tires (and broke the crank). Going to get some fast XC tires set up tubeless. I will only use it at a couple trails, maybe commuting if I ever go back to the office and at Ray's. On the fence if I will put the money into a dropper for it because I can always drop the saddle manually for the few jumps I get into on that bike.

 @vapidoscar: I saw that we were working with about the same budget and the need for 27.5 wheels. I was looking to see if it was possible for me to get a bike before late july. No can do

 Oh cool, I'll get that on my to-do list. Thanks!

 I wanted to keep the cash and drugs, but the owner of the LBS called the police. They ended up picking him up when he came back into the store a few days later.

 I haven't listened to it yet, but I'm guessing what he means is that at the bike weight should be thought of in relation to rider weight. So a 250lb guy will notice a heavier bike, but it'll wear him out less over a long climb than it would wear out a light guy. Assuming heavy/light guy have similar body fat percentage and fitness levels. I'm ~240 with gear, if 5 lbs is added to a my bike, me and my bikes total weight would increase by less that 1.8% If 5 lbs was added to the 25lbs bike of a 75lbs child, it'd be 5% increase.

 @kcy4130: I get that but if you are talking about two people who are 6'0" and one is 160 and one is 250. They are not the same body fat and fitness levels. It is possible the 250 guy is a track cyclist and is all muscle and the 160 guy just came out of a coma and lost all muscle mass. But it is more likely the 250 dude is carrying around a lot of extra fat.

I agree kid's bikes weigh way too much.

 I definitely notice my Madonna's 36+lb weight versus a similar 33lb bike. 3lb is almost nothing percentage-wise to the combined weight of me and the bike, but I definitely notice it moving the bike around.

Like yeah, I should lose some weight too, but nothing wrong with big people wanting lighter bikes. Whether or not it's possible to do durably is a whole other discussion...

 I have broken alot of wheels and in your case my friend I think you need a carbon rim with a lifetime warranty. For no other reason than you break stuff.
Less expensive options to consider 1st
More air. I ride at 28 psi at 180lbs. I havnt broken my current WAO unions at this pressure. I have had tires in the 1200gram range get pinched or ripped or developed a wobble. I can live with going through tires.
Thicker insert
I have huck norris doubled up in the front wheel of my DH/bikepark wheelset. I wasn't impressed by them at all in the rear wheel. The rear wheel has tannus or cushcore depending on what I can find in stock.
Higher spoke count.
36 hole rims might be your friend.

I break things too, mostly wheels. It sucks hope you can get sorted.

 Just ride slower, duh... Sorry, couldn't resist a dumb joke. I'm a bit heavier, and keep 32 or even as high as 35psi in the rear, no need for inserts. You can also try a wider tire if the frame will fit one.

 Carbon rim in DH layup is the solution. Al rims are totally unreliable ime and that's with me being 40#s lighter than you, running inserts, and some decent pressure in a decent weight tire.
Al rims get tweaked on quite small stuff, not worth the trouble.

 That's wild. More pressure will keep your tires from bottoming out as much, and a strong carbon rim won't ding.

 @ridenwc1: on PB dh carbon explodes

 You need to add more tire pressure to the rear tire. Start by adding 2-5 p.s.i. the rear tire. I would also look into getting a set of e bike specific wheels. The extra weight, down low in the bike, is causing more stress on the wheel than with a regular bike wheel.

OEM wheels, are almost never very good: my OEM dh wheels had to be replaced after a week in Whistler.

 Thanks for the replies.

Yeah I was kinda thinking a carbon rim would be the answer but was also hoping someone would have a cheaper solution! Cushcore could be a good call. I'm a bit traumatised by the amount of rides I've had lately where I've been fixing a f*cked wheel in the woods and the thought of dealing with cushcore in the rain mid ride isn't appealing! If huck norris isn't that good tho maybe I'll check it out. Are there any alu rims more bomb proof (and in stock) than a fr560?

 @blahblahbikes: Actually, you are what, 270-280#s rolling down the trail? Just add a DH carcass tire, an insert, and run about 32psi and you should be fine.
Air pressure is directly related to how much the bike/ rider weighs as well as terrain and riding style. Without knowing the latter I can still see/ read that 28psi is too low for the former.
Still, CF wheels are MUCH better.

 @blahblahbikes: at this point you have spent more than the $500 usd a carbon rim would have cost.

I think a dh carcass and 30-35 psi will fix it with the fr560.

Atleast you have a motor.

 @blahblahbikes: You want a cheap solution but won't try adding a few psi to you tires? That makes sense.... When I was on 26 with tubes, I'd run about 45 psi at least to avoid pinch flats...

 Again, thanks for the replies.

I have tried more pressure but went back down to 30psi as this was the highest that felt ok - any higher and the tyre wasn't gripping on my local trails (either very rocky or very rooty, wet most of the time) so I was slipping out and crashing. I'm too old to get away with adding more injuries to my already extensive list - and time injured is time off work so it's not as cheap a solution as it seems!

Its not like I've just been repeating the same set up and hoping for the best - each time I've gone to a burlier rim, more pressure up to the limit I'm comfy with, and then added an insert as well.

A dh casing makes sense as a next step, couldn't find any maxxis ones in stock that were suitable and I'm not familiar with other brands, any recommendations? Don't want a super soft compound on the rear which narrows the choice a bit, something like a dhf or dhr 2 in similar compound to maxx terra would be my preference.

Otherwise I guess I'll start saving for that carbon rim!

Cheers for the advice

 @blahblahbikes: unfortunately most dh casings come in the super soft rubber

You might see if versus gets shipped to the UK

 Thank for all the replies!

So I guess to wrap this up, in case the PB editors discuss it on the next podcast (which would be great!) I've consistently broken rims at 30psi, and now split a double down tyre wall on the rim through a huck norris dh insert, dinging an fr560 in the process. The consensus seems to be more pressure first, then a burlier tyre, then a better insert, then a carbon rim.

What I'd like to know is their opinions on this: is it worth running more pressure and trading off grip? Would a burlier tyre be a better call, and if so what options are there for the rear as an intermediate tyre not in super soft rubber? What inserts are better for rim protection than huck norris that wouldn't induce PTSD if I had to fix something mid cold rainy ride? Should I just bite the bullet and get a carbon rim, and if so what do they recommend?

Big thanks to everyone who's commented so far. Ride safe.

 @blahblahbikes: hey man. Me and my buddy have the exact same bike. We both run nobl tr38 carbon rims dh casing tire and cushcore rear. I’ve been riding it that way nearly 2 years and never had a problem. Ebikes in my opinion should not run anything other than a dh casing with cushcore. I value my ride time to much. I’ve never had a problem with this setup

 completely dismissed one day later

 For clarification, I want top picks at Tim Horton’s, things I didn’t put in my trail bag because of my other irresponsible purchases, etc.

 @jstafford0502: Not sure the podcast is long enough tbh

 Peter Enis

 not too shabby