The Pinkbike Podcast: What Should Bike Warranties Look Like?
Art by Taj Mihelich
Does a generous warranty just drive the cost of your bike up? What does "limited lifetime" actually mean? Levy's back at curling camp so Henry and I discuss some of the factors behind the warranties that different brands provide.
Let us know in the comments—what kind of GOOD warranty experiences have you had? What kind of BAD ones? Do the words on the warranty card affect your purchase decisions?
Featuring a rotating cast of the editorial team and other guests, the Pinkbike podcast is a weekly update on all the latest stories from around the world of mountain biking, as well as some frank discussion about tech, racing, and everything in between.
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Warranties aside though, the price of bikes these days make it almost worth while getting a fab shop set up that produces swing arms for popular models. If like the auto industry I could find new parts for a 30 year old bike people might find more value in used bikes.
Personally I was thinking more mass production. If lets say Specialized licensed the use of the die sets for the last gen stumpy alloy then a contract manufacture could do a run of rear triangle parts. If you look at reliability expectations it is always a bathtub curve over time, so being in partnership with the OEM a person or company could enter the market as the curve starts to go up on the right side of the graph, which should be after the warranty is up. That way there is no real competition and the bike manufacture doesn't have to manage the excess SKUs for years to come. It would be a win/win.
I still think @brianpark is right, the companies should think about the life of the bike being 10 years +, but this would be a good middle ground. They don't have to invest anything (they would actually get paid) and could see if there really is a market for maintaining bikes past the typical 5 years and 1 owner model. I know this originally was talking about warranties, but if I drive my Subaru off a cliff they wont warranty that... but they will sell me all the OEM replacement parts. Ideally a bike company someday does the same. If not, I'm happy to partner with one of the big ones to contract that out
It wasnt too far into the past where geo sucked and you almost had to buy a new bike every couple years to get a better riding bike. Also they broke a lot more back then.
Additionally, I will throw my support that a bike needs a transferable warranty. I would argue that not having a transferable lowers resale prices (outside of Covid times) and has kept many from selling their used bikes for the newer shiny model.
What we seem to forget is that the products we purchase, have a lifespan that can’t be compared to any motor vehicle or building etc.
The stresses and strains that go through any bicycle component or frame is huge compared to a vehicle for instance. Just think what the equivalent stresses of terrain you’d put through your 4x4, van or car to match the strains and stresses you out your bike through?!……. A simple park run would likely be the equivalent of driving your motor down Mt Everest!
Personally, I’ve only really suffered one major warranty claim. It was the dreaded XO carbon cranks on a Specialized Demo back in 2015. Two pairs of cranks in 24hrs in Malaga Spain (whilst on a riding holiday at the end of a season).
What I did do that clearly helps was NOT POSTING A SARCY COMMENT ON SOCIAL MEDIA! That only drives a steel wall up against you and the company involved.
I contacted Specialized Uk initially as the bike was a complete build when purchased.
They couldn’t replace anything but did give me a direct email to Sram Europe to email. They did give a call ahead of this which I found out about afterwards which they didn’t need to do.
The PoC at Sram couldn’t have been anymore helpful and genuinely concerned for my well-being after reading about the two sets of cranks failing on me.
Long story short, I gained a full bike replacement due to cosmetic damage caused to the frame by the cranks and subsequent crashes in the Spanish mountains.
Remember folks: even if you are fully in the right and justified to be annoyed about a product failing on you- manners and curtesy will always support your complaint. ALWAYS be thankful and appreciate any interaction you get from a company and more importantly, never post about something until you’ve fully explored all avenues of the warranty.
Yes you can yell, and swear, and call me the worst person in the world for an hour straight, but it's not going to sway my decision given the evidence at hand. Tell me a decent story, and be honest, and more than likely I'll be in favor of your claim. And yes we all check instagram, Facebook, YouTube, and once upon a time vine you chuckleheads. You want a better chance at a full replacement warranty, post after the warranty is fulfilled and not before. A garage hit is never a warranty, and never say "I was just riding along."
In my mind 5 years is within reason, after which crash replacement is the next step, and at 10 years plus maybe a discount on a new bike given new standards. This lifetime sh!t has got to go. Just saying my peace from experience.
-Happy Shredding
#jraisjustastateofmind
Having been on the receiving end of the abuse you can get when things get denied and the tall stories. I used to check the forums and FB pages when I got a rather interesting claim and as you say, you would be surprised what people do and then tell you happened.
JRA was always fun as was the "I'm an engineer" line.
"lifetime" is a bit ridiculous, but some parts only having 1 or 2 years is also not enough either. You just try do your best but there is always some chode who thinks they know better
Personally, I think warranties need to be better defined for both customers and shop employees. I know the legal stuff needs to be presented to protect the bike companies, but I'd like to see these legal definitions expanded upon, especially the ASTM ratings. I'm not sure I agree with that system, but I wish the industry made a better effort to educate customers about what it means and how it applies to the warranty of the bike.
I agree with OP, every warranty is different and looking at anecdotal comments offers no accurate guide as to which brands are generous and which aren't. I expect others have had much less favourable outcomes from Canyon (in their opinion).
If he was honest to start I would have understood,. I still sent it off for an official verdict which was denied.
There’s a word for a “Lifetime” warranty that only lasts 5 or 7 years: a lie.
There’s nothing wrong with limiting a bike’s warranty to 5 or whatever years, but don’t bullshit your consumers by calling that a lifetime.
That said, the point I was trying (and maybe failing) to make is that there's enough wiggle room in all brands' warranty language that execution is going to be more important than what's written on the page.
Cracked a chainstay, had no receipt, told them I was second owner and wanting to just purchase the part and was told "can't help you without a receipt." Luckily found a new one for sale elsewhere for seemingly crash replacement cost, but if I'm offering them money and still rejected.. c'mon.
The manufacturer charges per piece.
There are minimums that you must reach and you only get so much production time (during Covid) But its no big deal for them to lay up some extras as long as that mold is in use. If I called up and said make me 15 rear triangles they would say no unless they made a mistake on something.
My GF just bought one last week. She doesn't send it hard enough for me to worry about frame damage, but still annoying to deal with. My E29 has suffered a TON of abuse, but it is an older generation.
Salsa: bought an El Mariach lightly used on eBay. Five years later, l cracked the dropouts, outside the normal warranty period, and having bought it used as the second owner. They gave me the crash replacement option to replace the bike with any of their other models. Thanks Evan!
Onyx: After four years on a set of hubs, I sheared the rear axle while bikepacking. I put it down to a loose cassette and rode the last ~50 miles with the bad axle before discovering it while troubleshooting at home. Onyx upgraded the hub to their new bearing/axle standard, shipped it back to me quickly, and wouldn't accept payment. Thanks Daniel!
Both were quick and easy to work with, and in my opinion, were incredibly generous and understanding. The Cutthroat is now rolling with Onyx hubs.
I also don't understand why bike warranties aren't more like car warranties where they follow the product rather than the owner. Who owns the product should have no impact on the quality of the product and therefore the support for the product. It just feels like a cop-out by the manufacturer. Do you stand by your product or not?
Providing a warranty is a cost of doing business and should already be priced in, and strong consumer law ensures that the market is a level playing field. If a company still can't offer a warranty without pricing itself out of the market, it won't last long in that market.
I've broken six carbon frames, and have always contacted distributers and factories directly with photos and details. In my experience, bike shops rarely improve this process.
Best warranty experience was with Hong Fu in China. I cracked the seat collar of a $500 carbon frame during installation. I sent pics of the damage (and the tools I had used) direct to the company, and they sent a replacement frame at no cost. It since has been going strong for 10 years under my hefty ass. They email me from time to time asking how my experience has been with their product. Excellent!
Bianchi - four broken frames, and on three of those occassions the bike shop stole the frame hardware then sold it back to me.
Giant - bb shell delaminated from frame, but the shop deleted my digital receipt of original purchase after seven years (interestingly, so did my bank, but anyways...)
Cannondale - cracked dropout, shop said "they all do that" and walked off. Engineering shop re-welded it for me.
Fulcrum/Campagnolo: Rear wheel had a vibration issue. Factory warranty refunded my money, but through the shop account, so they decided to keep my cash and give me store credit on things I did not want nor need.
I have two Canyons in my garage, now...
I would absolutely love brands to provide more details about crash replacements, or "out-of-warranty breakage discounts" such as:
* What's the % Discount from MSRP?
* What happens if/when that model is no longer available?
I suppose there's always a chance that someone would just take a hammer to their frame and abuse it, but I agree with the hosts that true warranty abuse is likely pretty rare.
I'm kinda shocked by how many have cracked, snapped and broken frames... The only time i have was back in the late 2000s when every Commencal on the planet snapped.
I guess the best warranty is the one no-one has mentioned, because the frames never break
Bought a new Fuel EX in November 2019.
Cracked in 2021, free replacement frame.
Cracked that one in 2022, so they send me the new one again (gen 6 this time).
Also during that time I broke a rear hub that came on that bike. Which the shop warrantied without me even asking. I had just mentioned wanting to buy a new hub and some spokes.
That is the thing every manufacture needs to know: warranties are less about assurances and more a chance to take what could be a negative and turn it into a positive. If a manufacture is going to deny a warranty based some sub-paragraph or some nebulous determination, what they are really saying is that you, the customer who spends money on their goods, isn't worth their effort.
This leads to the second issue, which is time. often goods will be replaced under warranty but it will take months for the process to conclude. Generally I end up having an extra bike to avoid missing summer due to some warranty issue - my average would be 3 months and multiple hours following up to get something resolved. Some of the customer direct brands have a good policy of sending you to a local bike shop and saying they will pay the cost
Every single bike since then has broken and need one or more replacements: 2009 Wilson X 1, 2013 Wilson x 2, 2018 Trek Session x 4, 2022 Commencal Supreme x 2
Of those 9 warranties, Commencal is the only one to try and f*ck me over.
Some brand are good in term of delay (I cracked a Demo 8 frame back in the days and I had a new frame in less than 10 days) and some sucks.
Somehow in 33 yrs I've not cracked a single frame in spite of riding hard & fast, and harder / faster / scarier now than I ever did in younger years...I should get a warranty on what is sure to be my broken body soon b/c that's bound to happen. Bike frames seem to be taking all the shit I can give...its the components that get nuked pretty fast though.
DTSwiss- I broke two of the 370 hubs (the one with pawls) and they no questions asked sent me a new wheel within the week.
Norco- broke my Optic's chainstay, they no longer had that color in stock, they sent me a brand new frame.
Canyon- broke my chainstay twice, first time replacement was sent immediately with no issue. Second time took awhile (out of stock in pandemic) but they sent me a whole new frame when it came back in stock
JensonUSA- I stripped a 1.5mm hex bolt on a new Giant contact dropper and told them that it was my fault, they still sent me a replacement
The best I had was with small companies and their expensive product. also a bad one. but the question if i would pay more for good warranty is not good. expensive stuff with bad warranty need to be more expensive. no thanks. would i pay more if stuff is more reliable, but if something fails the warranty covers it. yes, thats what i do.
i paid 2000€ for wheels, they broke after one year of intended use and the warranty was not granted. i would definetly not pay more so the warranty would be granted. expensive high performance parts shouldnt break with intended use.
from mentions like improving the used market by providing hardware for older frames and making bikes last a little longer, making used bikes safer. that also might lead to an opportunity for recycling all the damaged materials from factories and stuff like that. theres all the concerns and hidden details regarding "limited lifetime" and all that.
my question is: are brands willing to make whats "right" or "best for the customer" if they had to spend more money, have more work and slightly increase the risk of less profit to do so?
when specialized made the enduro EVO model, it lasted in production line for around 4 years but had warranties allowing for 5 and 3 years for rocker arm and rear triangle. they discontinued it in 2016 so in 2017,18,19 there was lots of people around the world that didnt had replacements parts available for these bikes and still specialized didn't think that giving them a new frame was a fair option, unfortunately. as a previous 2015 enduro evo owner, that was the worst warranty experience that people could possibly have.
my best warranty experience so far was trek. i ride mostly two bikes right now and thats why they're both from trek.
a lot of healthy improvements can be made here. perhaps we should try getting brands just a little closer to their customers in some ways?
Positive experiences:
-Specialized sent me a new bike after my new bike developed a rattle in a chainstay. Seemed odd to get a whole bike.
-Jamis sent me a new chainstay after I cracked one at the weld. Seemed like they had a lot of failures that year that the corrected the next year. Though, it didn't match (black vs brushed aluminum).
-Ohlins gave me a new fork when the suspension shop found unusual wear. I never noticed a problem.
-Garmin seemed to struggle to get the battery door on their Vector pedals right. Every time I sent them an email about mine acting up, they sent me a new part.
If a company is going to offer it I would pay for it but there had better be no BS if it is needed; moreover, I would expect if it is offered the bike had better be able to take a LOT of punishment before it whimpers. I remember Marin Bikes (in the 90's) saw 80% of its warranty claims come from the Cove Bike Shop alone......lesson being: you had better engineer your bike before offering something that can come back to haunt you. If it can fail, it will.
Its April 20, Thursday - the day PB usually releases the PB podcast and the cliche day everyone says things about. Where's our PB pod yo's? Also, if Levy can do 2 pods on F1 (zzzzzzzzz) then surely a cast on curling (zzzzzzz, but whatever is an option). Also where's the cast on Wayne? PB pod OCD'ers have been asking for this for years.
What do we want??? PINKBIKE PODCAST !!!
When do we want it??? NOW !!!
Signed, OG OCD PB Podcast Fanclub Chair Wannabe
"Here we are now, entertain us..."
My commuter bike is from a brand that was founded by people who worked at another major brand and they were unhappy about the quality. And I have to admit, the quality of my bike is really good. Better than I've seen from the competitors. I went with their so called "Hufterproof" spec. I invested extra to make sure it is up to heavy and frequent use. One day I was stomping against a 6Bft headwind over a rough road bringing my daughter to school. I suddenly heard a loud bang and the headangle felt extra slack. We made it to school but the downtube was cracked. As I think I did all I could to make sure I got the strongest bike for my purposes, I asked for my frame (less than three years old) to be replaced and that's what they did. So the brand did indeed fulfill their warranties which is all good though the ladies who run the bikeshop did tell me they're being paid very little for swapping all the parts over.
For mountainbike stuff though, I don't bother with the warranty. Nothing is sold as "hufterproof" these days. Just make sure you buy stuff that can be repaired.
What was wrong with the warranty process?
It didn't go so well for me on round 2 when the July 2022 replacement broke again 4 months later...
Refer to epic long post near top of this page for full story.
www.pinkbike.com/forum/listcomments/?threadid=164081&pagenum=31#commentid7172980
TLDR: Commencal is unable to support products by they sell for a reasonable timeframe and then flail through the warranty process in an incredibly stingy way. I've warrantied a lot of bike frames over the years, and this is was hands down the worst b experience I've had. They are inconsiderate nickel & dimers.