Video: Are Inverted Forks Here To Finally Stay? | Pinkbike Weekly Show Ep. 17

Mar 6, 2024
by Pinkbike Originals  

This week on the Pinkbike Weekly Show Christina and Henry prepare us for "Tradeshow Season" before jumping into 2 Min of Tech where Henry chats about inverted forks. They then discuss their items in the $25 Challenge before sharing the latest Pinkbike Podcast episode with Eliot Jackson, the do-it-all man, and finish off with a unique edition of Rate Readers' Rides.

0:17 - Latest News + Taipei Cycle Show
3:03 - 2 Minutes of Tech
5:07 - $25 Challenge
7:40 - Pinkbike Podcast Recap with Eliot Jackson
8:02 - Rate Readers' Rides

Let us know the best piece of mountain bike equipment you can get for $25 or less!

What are your thoughts on inverted forks?







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76 Comments
  • 19 1
 does this mean we are getting a new shiver? @MarzocchiMTB please
  • 16 2
 @MarzocchiMTB help a guy out.
  • 3 0
 What the people really want^^
  • 13 0
 2 sets of dorados, best fork I've owned, had 8" upside down hainebrinks back in late 90's then shivers but where too flexy. New 37mm legs are loads stiffer now.
  • 7 1
 I'm super excited to get this set on the downhill bike this year and give them a thrashing.
  • 1 0
 how is turning radius compared to a Fox 40? I have a 35mm boxxer and my one complaint is the turning radius, mostly surrounding storage and transportation not so much an issue when riding
  • 1 0
 Got a set of Intend bandits-- LOVE THEM!
  • 3 0
 @henryquinney: The 37mm dorado is the best fork I've ridden since my YZ125 once upon a time. Its a solid one.
  • 2 0
 @artistformlyknowasdan: think its better than my old dvos or 380's
  • 2 0
 @cougar797: we need KYB bike stuff…
  • 7 0
 @artistformlyknowasdan: For reference, I’ve ridden previous gen dorados and boxxers from 2010 and 2019. Even though the upper legs on the dorados are huge, the turning circle is actually better than the 46mm offset 35mm Boxxers. That’s because the boxxers use lowers with 46mm offset, so the stanchions on the 46mm version are coplanar with the steerer. Whereas on the dorados, a good bit of the offset comes from the crowns, not the ‘lowers’. Therefore the upper legs are in a plane that is forward relative to the steerer tube, effectively improving steering lock angle.
  • 1 0
 @rideordie35: good to know - thx!
  • 1 0
 @stormracing: Yah I have the open bath damper dorado. If I ever put the coil in the spring side so both sides were oil bath that'd be as close as you can get without having the sliding bushings probably.
  • 8 0
 They have never been away, have they. Models come and go. Between the early days of Shiver and Ego forks and what we're seeing now, we've also seen them on RockShox XC forks and Trust linkage forks whereas Dorado and Lefty forks have been inverted forever. So yeah, they've been here to stay since the very beginning.
  • 2 0
 Exactly, they've always been a niche that's never gone away, and I think that will continue to be the case. There will always be benefits to those riders with tons of cash, but unless someone can bring one to the table without the drawbacks associated with USD forks (ie cost, & maintenance), they will stay niche.
  • 1 0
 @notthatfast: I think it is safe to say that companies in Europe and North America lack the skill to cast conventional fork lowers as well as they do in Taiwan. So depending on how global trade is being affected and how global conflicts unfold, companies will try to draw production back to their target audience hence have to redesign products such that they can be produced with available tools and skills. USD forks can be more easily produced using extrusion, CNC and maybe even printing processes. You can't really efficiently produce conventional fork lowers using these processes, unless you work with separate lower fork legs bolted together to a bridge like the older Marzocchi forks used to do. The latter wouldn't be impossible though, especially if that brace would be an integrated fender which people love and which isn't uncommon on motorcycles. Or extrude both fork lowers and a double bridge in one piece. Magura first came with the dual fork arches on their 2004 Thor fork so that patent should be expired by now. Either way, global stuff may affect what forks will look like and the USD concept is a readily available (and much loved so easily marketed) option.
  • 1 0
 @notthatfast: The price is not that different. Got my hands on a set of Carbon dorado MY23 for 1300euro brand new. You can hardly get a new boxxer or fox 40 at that price. I don't even talk about the Ohlins, intend and other high end brands which are in another leag price wise. They are imo best value for money fork you can get today. The only issue is the 37mm seals which there is not much option out there. But the maintenance all in all is the same as conventional forks. Personaly do not see any kind of difference with conventional forks.
  • 6 0
 It's like this....a good fork is an investment. I don't want to drop $1000 on something that is untested. If it's tested and vetted by others, then I'll give it a go. If it costs a lot more than a regular fork(cough Push cough) then there's little chance of me ever trying it.
  • 3 1
 Question for ya. I've been designing a linkage fork based on the 1979 motorcycle works of Valentino Ribi. The physics are sorted out already, but it comes with a (mild) anti-dive front brake response of +20% to +50% (when you're used to -30%-ish on a telescopic fork). Would you hypothetically be amenable to something like a rental? I've seen the honor system work well for Matt Appleman's short length crank project where people just rent a multi-size test product. I know the physics works out -- just as a proper inverted tele fork has its own concerns -- but getting over the perception and communication hump is my primary challenge.
  • 2 0
 @RegularCyclesLLC: Some way to try out something before buying is a good option. I did test rides before buying my bikes. It'd have to be a painless enough process to make it worthwhile with a consideration of what the final price would be and what I would do in case of a service need.
  • 3 1
 @RegularCyclesLLC: I've ridden the Trust forks and the Motion E18 forks, neither really worked great, so you've got a linkage fork design that you want to market.

I'd try it, but I'm not buying another one unless I'm convinced it works better than a telescopic fork.

I think there are plenty of people who want an linkage fork to work, just like inverted forks, but so far it hasn't materialized.

Send me a PM is you want to talk more.
  • 4 0
 @RegularCyclesLLC: I think a rental option would be awesome, especially if we could apply the rental cost towards the final purchase.
  • 2 0
 @RegularCyclesLLC: I would love to rent something like what you're making!
  • 2 0
 @sanchofula: yeah, my concern with the Trust fork and the Motion fork is they both had a non trivial amount of anti-dive. The Motion in particular has a LOT of anti dive, seemingly on purpose. I've been cautioned by the OG moto builders of linkage forks that it's a matter of *taste*, not a problem to solve on its own. Meanwhile, how are you supposed to have formed an opinion on a matter of taste if you have no chance to experience it?! That's a non-starter. Thank you for your feedback, looks like rental program is the way to go. I'll have to start it within lower 48 states only.
  • 5 0
 Where's the option for 'I have one, it works fine, inverted or not won't sway me one way or the other' instead of six different options for shitting on them? My Wren's been awesome on my fatbike for years and years, and I'd buy another one.
  • 3 1
 Sounds like you'd select option 1 : LOVE them, will not be going back to regular forks...no?
  • 2 1
 @christinachappetta: I think you need to work a bit harder at understanding what 'inverted or not won't sway me one way or the other' means.
  • 6 0
 Wow, that last bike is so cool! I definitely am not the guy behind the bike. Just kidding #astroturfing


If you would like to see more of the bike, you can follow me at vesselbikeproject on IG
  • 1 0
 You're a mad man for taking on that project! Respect
  • 5 0
 Can someone do something with the sound mix so that Christina and Henry are talking at the same volume - I set my computer to a volume I can hear in my office and my colleagues cant then I cant here Henry's soft spoken whisper so I turn it up and Christina's American warble pierces the air like a siren in the night. Sorry Christina.
  • 4 0
 All I want is a fork I don’t have to warranty after a month of riding. Creaking CSUs, leaking dampers, tight bushings, loose bushings. I mean seriously, Fox and Rockshox need to get their act together and have some better QC.

An upside down fork with issues is just an upside down fork with issues.
  • 1 2
 Unpopular opinion: a brand new suspension component should not be considered "ready to ride" until it has been fully stripped, inspected, and serviced by a qualified suspension tech.

I learned this lesson the hard way multiple times. Since 2017 I've had every suspension product I've purchased or received rebuilt by a trusted local suspension tech before the first ride. That's five sets of suspension, plus a rear shock. More than 50% of those units was assembled incorrectly in a way that caused a potential safety issue, and more than one was returned on a warranty claim straight of the box.

Other than creaking CSUs, every one of the warranty issues you mentioned will be found during the initial teardown. I don't like it either, but I regard it as a cost of doing business at this point, rather than trusting my safety to manufacturers who have proven to be consistently inconsistent.
  • 5 0
 @DirtCrab: I can’t agree. I worked in the industry until a few months ago, got my fox and SRAM certs.

I’ll be damned if I pull apart my brand new suspension on my time and dime when they have a warranty option. If your fork feels like garbage, no reason to pay someone or me to tear it apart. That’s a waste of funds unless you’re getting a custom tune.

Do not go easy on the big companies.
  • 1 0
 @TheGrey724: There was a time when I was in the same boat re: "waste of funds." Now that I no longer earn a living turning wrenches, I'll gladly shell out a few bucks for suspension service to avoid the "waste of time." That's especially true for issues that can be handled locally by a trusted mechanic, rather than returning the item in question and waiting weeks or months and hoping that the manufacturer makes it right.

Your point is well taken though. We as end users should not have to QC our own suspension. Not that "should" means much.
  • 2 0
 @DirtCrab: Amen. Just got a new bike with a 2024 Fox 38, was a turd out of the box. 2 days ago stripped it down, full lower and airspring service and it's significantly better now. Fox still hasn't figured out how to not fill the airspring with a massive excess of grease and oil that turns into oatmeal. Every new Fox or RS fork I've had in past 7-8 years I've had to take apart. Only one that's been good to go was Ohlins.
  • 4 1
 Yes - we all understand why USD forks are 'superior' from an engineering standpoint, but for the most of us, existing tech is more than good enough for trail riding. The folks who plunk down $2600.00 for a new Push USD fork will likely be able to benefit from the x% performance they offer, and it's cool there's such a product now available. But, for the rest of us, I'd rather spend the extra $1000-2000 dollars on other stuff!
  • 1 0
 Dorado Expert are only 1550 msrp new, the Dorado comp is 1,200. The cannondale Lefty is only 1k
  • 3 0
 I don’t get why they use skinny 15 or 20mm axles on most designs?? It always seemed obvious to an armchair engineer like myself that a nice big 30mm+ axle would sort out any twisty nonsense, specially with a wide interface and 2 chunky pinch bolts either side.
The only one i ever had was an RS1 rlc which due to it’s daft 15mm axle was a bit shit. It was one of those mega bargains that I couldn’t resist as i think USD forks look sooo right.. How that poor thing used to squirm to one side as my 4 pot calipers bit into the 200mm disc (i know why it said 180 max rotor)
I sent it back for refund after a few weeks when it shat the bed by blowing the seal out and oiling my front brake.

We should pester hope to do one in pretty colour options, coil or air options and matching hub. I’d want one.
  • 2 0
 I've got a previous generation Dorado with some damper mods on my 27.5 DH bike, and it eats better than any fork I've ridden. But the I also have conventional forks on my Enduro bike and hard tail that both work pretty well, so I guess this is another stupid survey where there isn't a logical option for me.
  • 4 0
 I LOVE my Dorado! If I ever win the powerball I would absolutely buy the Push fork.
  • 2 0
 Avalanche built the highest performance inverted forks for the last 25+ years. Nothing was better, and hard to say if anything new could ever match Craig's original MTN and DHF forks.
  • 2 0
 Never tried his forks but have his Woodie shock, had a tune DHX2, had a hybrid 36, and have a hybrid 40 and they are the best feeling suspension I’ve ever ridden by far. And I also have EXT Era, Ohlins TTX22M and others.
  • 1 0
 Been riding marzocchi shiver back in 2005, had a 888 then. Eventually jumped on the Dorado train on 2010.
Running a Dorado pro 37 (tuned by rulezman). Best fork so far. I've ridden the original Dorado pro 37, and I had a blast too!
  • 3 2
 Inverted forks have been tried on XC, trail and enduro bikes many times, usually with the same result: a fork that offers a few useful advantages (better fore-aft rigidity, better lubrication of seals) but is heavy and torsionally flexy. Various manufacturers have tried to use special construction features to solve the rigidity problem:
-DVO: colleted crown/ upper legs; stanchion guards doubling as fork brace (never made it to market)
-X-Fusion: keyed inner and outer legs (never made it to market)
-Maverick: baseball bat sized upper legs, 24mm thru axle
-Manitou: Hex-lock thru-axle
-Rock Shox: 1-piece carbon crown and stanchions; faux 27mm axle with torque caps
-Push: crown with massive overlap over stanchions
-Cannondale: dual crowns, square legs riding on bearings, 1-piece lower leg/ axle
Of these, manufacturers, only Cannondale was able to solve the rigidity problem. All of the others either decided not to bring their products to market, or made forks that became known for undesirable levels of torsional flex.
Can someone solve the flex problem while not making a pig of a fork? I won't exclude it, but I doubt it- USD forks eliminate a basic structural member (fork brace) without replacing it.
Maybe someone should make one with a honking 35mm axle? Or bring the Lefty dual crown forks back?
  • 2 0
 Intend has done one hell of a job! The Edge is like 2130 grams.
  • 3 0
 Intend and Manitou are great forks. There is no flex problem; you want a fork to have some amount of flex
  • 1 0
 @wburnes: Isn't the Dorado only dual crown at this point? Downhill USD forks are a bit different category than the XC, trail and enduro ones I mentioned, probably because their dual crowns add rigidity.
  • 1 1
 @v57z3F0q: True, but it is an elite, boutique fork. Bright Racing ones are IIRC a bit cheaper, but still up there in price. Then again, some of the forks I mentioned are also boutique level.
Have you ridden the Intend? It is a fork I am curious about, as now that you mention it, is said to have fixed the rigidity issue.
  • 2 0
 @Insectoid: I ride the Edge at 180mm with the Linearizer. EYes, it’s definitely a boutique brand for sure. But they’ve done an amazing job of making a fork that’s not a complete beast, is very very stiff fore and aft- especially amazing under braking. It’s not a noodle either- but has a perfect amount of torsional flex that make tech and slippery roots a tad easier than RSU forks. Most riders probably couldn’t detect a downside of torsional flex, unless you’re a heavy absolute ripper on park berms. It’s funny that since the Push fork was released at $2600, Intend sounds so reasonable now! Haha

I also have a 37mm Dorado on my park bike. It goes insane.
  • 1 0
 We can fit back the 3 front chainring that got a bigger range hahahaha
Invented was made in the past and it's not a mx track that's wide and you are 90% of the time at the back of the Mx on the gas !!!
On MTB you are at the front pushing like skiing to get the grip !!! That's the week part of and inverted fork and the time the teka to flex back to the original position,
Maxxis change the slow rise compound to super tacky then to 3c making the rober recover it's initial position!!!

What I am telling is that Flexi suspension can leed to Les predictive ride , yes it feel so good in a perfect world heheheh but it's not !!!
Fox made some 40s inverted and the trash them
  • 2 0
 I got a 2013 Dorado recently. Best feeling fork I have ever ridden, and I've had a lot of modern forks too. The torsional flex is overplayed. You don't feel it much when riding. The extra fore-aft stiffness however, you do.
  • 1 0
 How much lighter is the unsprung mass really? Magnesium lowers are pretty dang light. Take the USD lower, with the brake mount, guards, the whole assembly and weigh it. I'll be surprised if the Push lowers are even 50g lighter than the 36 (they call it a trail fork).
  • 4 0
 I love my Intend fork. I'm not a dentist.
  • 3 0
 have an intend bandit for over 2 years and and edge before that. best forks there are
  • 4 0
 Video? No thanks
  • 4 1
 #pbreaderrides !!! Send them in people!
  • 1 0
 Foes had the correct answer to keeping lateral flex to a minimum. Their Wet One fork from 1999 had a 30 mm axle and dedicated hub.
  • 1 2
 Given the same stanchion size, there’s no way an inverted fork is anywhere close to as stiff as a fork with a crown. I guess there’s a chance that it’s made of some futuristic material that has a modulus that’s multiples higher than what currently used. Other than that, nope. It going to be torsionally and laterally more compliant.
  • 1 0
 I've now owned two DH bikes with Manitou Dorado forks. And I love them. Never have an issue with the old version or their newest version.
  • 2 0
 High Pivots and inverted forks, things are really coming back around!
  • 1 0
 I'm just hear to say I always wanted a Maverick fork.
  • 1 0
 Are they going to leak all the time like moto forks?
  • 1 0
 As long as upside-down forks weigh twice as much, and cost triple, no.
  • 1 0
 Always lusted after the Shiver, just never got there.
  • 2 2
 Duel crown, yes. Single crown, only if you like you fork flexy.
  • 1 0
 You should try one of the inverted forks made after 1998 (not the RockShox). You'd be surprised!
  • 1 4
 @Bitelio: Given the same stanchion size, there’s no way an inverted fork is anywhere close to as stiff as a fork with a crown. I guess there’s a chance that it’s made of some futuristic material that has a modulus that’s multiples higher than what currently used. Other than that, nope. It going to be torsionally and laterally more compliant.
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