Video: Testing Fox's Prototype Electronic Suspension with Jesse Melamed
Back in July, we spotted what appeared to be a prototype electronically controlled Fox shock on the back of Ed Masters' Pivot Firebird, as well as what looked like a wireless sensor bolted to his bike's rear brake mount. Fox didn't say much at the time beyond admitting that it's part of their RAD (Racing Application Development) program, but they did reach out a few weeks later to let us know that EWS winner Jesse Melamed would be doing some preliminary testing of this very set-up in Squamish. Not only that, but myself and Matt Beer could tag along to watch Jesse try the electronic air-sprung shock for the first time.
While Fox let us film the test session and ask too many questions, they stressed that the new suspension is still in the development phase and that they wouldn't be able to tell us everything we wanted to know. In fact, it doesn't even have a name yet.
Jesse had been racing on a coil-sprung shock all season, and this was his first time testing the new electronic suspension.
So, what'd we learn?
Rear-suspension only: The first thing to point out is that, unlike Live Valve, this new system is entirely focused on shock performance alone and doesn't incorporate the front suspension at all. That means that riders will be able to pair the shock with any fork they like, including those from other brands. I'd argue that makes a lot of sense for enduro racers who essentially never want their fork firmed up, but also from a consumer and sales point of view; purchasing a new shock is much less daunting than having to buy and install a fork, shock, and a whole bunch of wires that may or may not play nice with whatever bike you own.
Wireless sensors: Speaking of wires, that's another dissimilarity between this system and Live Valve. The two sensors that tell the shock's brain what the wheels are doing, each bolted to the front and rear brake mounts, are wireless and powered by common CR2032 batteries, while the shock itself runs on a removable and rechargeable proprietary battery.
Wireless sensors bolt to the front and rear brake mounts.
Manual remote control: More interesting than batteries, however, is the handlebar-mounted remote that Jesse was using to control the shock. This let him manually cycle between shock modes without taking a hand off his grip, something that was never possible with Live Valve and also a feature that might give some riders piece of mind.
After filming this video, Jesse used the new shock at this weekend's Whistler EWS (he won the Pro Stage) where it was spotted by a photographer and posted on the homepage yesterday. Not a bad debut, especially considering Jesse had been racing exclusively on a coil-sprung shock prior to the testing that we joined him for.
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You don't need the top model aka the bikes the EWS pros are racing on. The higher price of top end models isn't indicative of all bikes being "overpriced". It's indicative that the appetite for superbikes has increased.
or SRAM NX or SX which stop working within minutes to days of proper riding.
Or these new cheap droppers with cartridges without valves and without spare parts available.
For some, including myself, it was nice to know that, even though I cannot afford a porsche, I can have its equivalent in mtb-ing. Now, I can't have that as well.
(and it is not a matter of needing it or not, no... it is a matter of just having/enjoying nice things in your life)
Most top end bikes in 2012 were still coming with 2x10 XTR and woeful Fox Factory CTD forks. Again, Bomber Z2 + Deore 12sp wipes the floor with them.
And droppers? There were no reliable droppers in 2012 (excpet the Gravity Dropper, but it was a pogostick-accodrian hybrid no one wanted to look at). To even own a KS Lev or a Reverb you'd pay 400-500 WITH known reliability issues. You can literally get a OneUp dropper for half that price with more drop and loads more reliability and full parts availability.
Also my comparison with a Sisku T8 vs. A Spesh, which comes with a Fox 34 + DPS + 12sp Shimano SLX + 4 pot brakes. Also a geometry that actually good. A bike that literally costs half of a top end bike in 2012.
People who paint broad complains about bike prices (excpet for Specialized, their bikes are priced ridiculiously) either A) haven't been riding for very long B) forgot how crap stuff used to be or C) have short term memories.
Shit is going crazy and nobody complains.
@Mac1987 Go on PB Buy/Sell, buy a good condition used model year old frame and spec it with decent new parts. Ex: One up Dropper, DT Wheels, Z2 fork and you will have the bike you want for an ok price. It takes work to figure out it out...but for those that love mtb, it's worth it. No need to upgrade or complain about specs. It's your own dang decision. For those that don't care enough, well, they won't notice a few subpar components when they buy a stock bike.
First case of COVID tax that's been self-imposed.
Firstly, Part of that is COVID has pushed prices up (amongst other factors like wage increases in Taiwan). You've benefited from cheap labor from the east for so long that holy shit, things are starting to actually cost close to what they're supposed to. So again, you're cheekily comparing prices from years you're cherry picking. Go ahead and compare the prices of bikes from say 2015 and 2019...
And lets give your logic a test ride: I rode a Canyon Neuron in 2018 that was about half the RRP of your €6300 Scalpel (which I've also tested). The Scalpel does not ride 2x a fast or better or descend any trails faster. In fact that bike has more world cup victories than that Scalpel has.
There are people out there riding €6300 Cannondales are crazy and nobody complains?
This comment ^^^^ wins the internet on 8/7by my reckoning.
People who are defending these prices are crazy.
And about my C'dale, as I said, I got that bike for free from work and was using it as an example that bikes have gone up stupidly. Try finding the same Crapyon now with the same quality finishing kit. I guarantee it has gained €2000. By the way, I would never buy a €2000 plus bike myself. All my other bikes are below 2K And have great finishing kit. (Ultegra, XT, Some carbon some not). And yes I have 7 bikes but use my bikes daily. All of them. This year I got a €4000+ e-bike from my work, you're gonna complain about that too?
Actually, I shouldn't be explaining this. If you do not believe prices are going batshit crazy, than you have sand in your eyes.
Let me guess their not yours, you’re just selling them for a friend who doesn’t post here often
There’s no way Jesse, who’s racing at the very sharp end of the EWS, athis home race, which is at Whistler, during Crankworx, which is also the home of his title sponsor (admittedly, not Whistler, but Vancouver, but close enough) would risk anything at all if he wasn’t 100% sure it was an advantage….
He wants this win
At your local trail? I mean yeah. What are you doing with your money at that point. I run a compromise tune like everyone else.
And based on his speed, there’s lots of opportunity for them to get cooled off
You know there are o-rings in engines, right?
I hate the damn finned pad rattle....
Thanks Fox (or @JesseMelamed )!
do you even get that engines are for the most part watercooled, parts that have orings don't get far above coolant temperature?
brake rotors get hot enough for the steel to blue, that's 300+ celsius
There’s tones of applications of high heat resistant o-rings, give yer head a shake.
You’re original comment is incorrect, it’s all right, it happens to the best of us
pads, otoh, are where the action's at.
@jonemyers: silicone, top temperature, 200 celsius. try dragging your brake down a steep hill and see how orings fare.
i don't use them, they have good low speed behaviour but "mistreating" them they don't take. and you can't burn off oil from them if you get them greasy
The phenolic pistons get screaming hot, as do the pads, etc.
The seals aren’t bathed in oil, as they have to seal against the piston, I think there’s only one side of the seal that’s in contact with the brake fluid.
For all your posturing, it’s fairly clear that it works, you get that right, like the guy who won most of the stages, and the event runs them, and likely has for quite some time…..
this shit might fly on an internet board but actual, tangible reality will disagree soon enough.
you f*cking retards think you're bigger than god.
pathological trolling is what's unacceptable. you do it just to trigger people to swear and you do it just to point finger at them and say "look, he bad!" that's crazymaking 101 and the tool of sociopaths, narcissists and psychopaths.
Not that I’m “trolling” not sure why you believe that,
Again, Jessie Melamed, has clearly been running these o-rings to help better retain his brake pads on his race and practice runs, that part I think we can agree on?
So your initial concern that they would melt, might have been unwarranted.
Real quick google search turns up high heat o-rings readily available from even Princess auto as 450F, given any sort of engineering allowance you can bet those have been tested to 750F.
Looks like boiling point for mineral oil and Dot fluid is around 450-500, so this is a non-issue.
Appreciate your reluctance to even entertain the possibility that you were incorrect, as i learned a tonne doing some quick research. Namely the cooling fins on Shimano pads do seem to be quite effective in dissapating the heat energy, I though them more a bit gimmicky, but for some people they could be a huge benefit
and i'm taking it seriously because you pricks are teamworking to ruin everything for everyone not of your, how would i call it, "religious conviction". you're a blight on society, and that other prick, what i wrote is the truth and if truth is "unacceptable" to him, well, he ain't working in humanity's interests. look it up.
Keep on keeping on my man,
None of us are involved with the initial design, or understand the compromises that are made to bring something like this to market.
It rattles partly due to the big jeezlus cooling fins attached, which is pretty unique to their design. Seems to work quite well, based on some of the info I’ve read. Shimano likely made a compromise use between a perceived performance benefit, and a little rattle, they chose performance, and I’m not sure they can be faulted for that. Especially when it can be sorted with a little Velcro tape or an o-ring.
We have so little to winge about, that the noise of mechanical contrivances have become an issue to some.
And mtb prolly makes up such a small portion of Shimano sales, that you might be right, they don’t are about the rattle
#RunWhatYaBrung
In 2012, could you have said the same about a 2002 bike?
You can get 26" forks, but a lower midrange Manitou fork is the best that's still available.
Doesn’t really look like much of a rip off of flight attendant.
Based on your post I’m making the assumption you’ve been affected recently by both a creaky CSU, and a blown X2.
The bike also had AXS shifting and seatpost control. The only thing I'd keep is the electronic dropper. The rest was a waste.
I'm good with my normal dropper that doesn't require batteries. Don't like electronic shifting yet either. And that's coming from a guy that puts a lot of miles on e-bikes. LOL!
Although the Pinkbike Health & Safety department might be having a word with Mike, seeing as he didn't do the buckle up in this video.
I hope Fox will actually let you buy it relatively soon with an aftermarket option. Might force Rockshox to start offering Flight Attendant after-market too instead of the current BS cash grab on $12k bikes.
if the front sensor is higher it means uphill
and if it's lower, that means downhill ?
What will happens on flat section ? sometimes we want locked on flat and sometime open. I reckon a shifter will be way better than those sensor
- Self adjusting
- Manually open
- Manually locked out
Something like that?
For the average person though, it's overkill. But there's always a sucker that wants to pay for the best of the best.
Sure geometry moved on, and some components.
But if you're into having fun, even entering in some races, I wouldn't spend a nickle more.
Bikes, and everything about 2 wheels, is +80% on the rider.
Sure, it will be hard to win if you're not at high level, BUT... only one can win, and it won because of:
Training / fitness
Not drinking beer / have wife & kids
Their work (if they work...) let him/her/wtf have an edge through practice
Drugs & dopping (yes... because it gives you an edge, and because if you're not inocent, you'll know that riders will take all the advantage they can. Not been caught, doesn't mean you're clean).
PS: my bikes will stay electronic free, and recently bought a Nokia, just to carry on rides, and don't even bother using Strava.
Racers wannabes, are welcome to downvote.
No need to go all “chicken little”, what we have now works and it’s cheap.
If you wanna play, you gotta pay.
If you can’t afford a ful suspension bike, then ride a hardtail, can’t even afford that, then ride BMX, can’t afford that, then get a better job!
So we have progression for sure in the kind we use our bikes, but at the same time manufacturers get more money from us for spare parts and maintenance parts
waiting for wireless electric brakes
Let’s work on a robust hub integrated generator to charge some of these low usage batteries. Maybe they can be slimmed down as they won’t need to hold a charge for as long, thus offsetting the additional weight of the generator.
I don’t think you’ll ever be able to generate enough power to charge an e-bike, but these smaller batteries could be doable
But, there’s nothing stopping bike companies from adding a charging system, physically-speaking.
silly pipe dream...
Might as well toss in some some regen from braking, no sense in wasting all that lost energy to heat. Potentially reduce the weight/size of the brakes as well, in the interest of offsetting the weight penalty of the generator
You really didn’t think that one through did ya
Granted they’re not setup to charge those little batteries yet, but the tech is there and has been refined.
Could you clarify?
Not sure they’d have the current capacity to charge all these little batteries, or the regen braking, thats likely a large source of wasted energy that could be harvested.
I’ve got the idea, just not the drive to develop such a thing, but I think its rad.
Maybe if it could be integrated with that Classified 2-speed hub, that would be really cool